Freddy to Angels?

[YASNY]

Especially at 3B, he is a butcher there. He also has the same noodle arm as PODS if I remember correctly.

 

Yet, they aren't comparable. To me, one is a carbon copy of the other.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Okay. I'll give in. he's a miniscule upgrade. Not enough to make a diffeerence, but whatever. Pods will be a FA if we don't offer arbitration, I believe.

Defensively, Figgins is an above average center fielder. He'd figure to be the best LF in the game if he played there all year. He'd be a defensive upgrade of 10-15 runs a year.

 

Their batting lines are a wash, but Figgins has more upside than does Pods.

 

On the bases, it's not close. Pods has lost 2 steps, not one, and Figgins is an elite basestealer. This season there was a difference of 20 net-stolen-bases between the two, which works out to about 10 runs.

 

So even if their bats are a wash, Figgins is 20-25 runs better than Podsednik, which works out to about 2 wins in the standings. Factor in that Figgins still has some room to improve with the bat, and you could easily make the case for Figgins being 3-5 wins better than Pods. Well worth the upgrade.

 

Especially at 3B, he is a butcher there. He also has the same noodle arm as PODS if I remember correctly.

Figgins is terrible at third, but he's a very good CFer, and he has a decent arm. It's not a canon, but it's very good for a little guy. WAY WAY better than Pods.

[WCSox]

you realize that near the end of the year Scioscia had to move Chone down the order to the 9 spot because he wasn't producing right?

 

If KW can't get what he wants for one of his SP, then he schould just hang onto him and deal Pods. Giving Sweeney a shot in LF and bat Iguchi lead off, near the ASB someone will come calling for a SP. Just have McCarthy start the year at AAA, if thats the case(which i highly doubt).

 

I'd rather dump Freddy's salary (whether it be this winter or before the July 31st deadline) for somebody like Figgins and free up payroll space for other moves than continue to over-pay for Freddy and stick another rookie in the outfield who may struggle like hell at the plate. JMO.

 

But I agree that KW should be able to get more for Freddy than Figgins.

[YASNY]

Defensively, Figgins is an above average center fielder. He'd figure to be the best LF in the game if he played there all year. He'd be a defensive upgrade of 10-15 runs a year.

 

Their batting lines are a wash, but Figgins has more upside than does Pods.

 

On the bases, it's not close. Pods has lost 2 steps, not one, and Figgins is an elite basestealer. This season there was a difference of 20 net-stolen-bases between the two, which works out to about 10 runs.

 

So even if their bats are a wash, Figgins is 20-25 runs better than Podsednik, which works out to about 2 wins in the standings. Factor in that Figgins still has some room to improve with the bat, and you could easily make the case for Figgins being 3-5 wins better than Pods. Well worth the upgrade.

 

You make some legitimate points. But I'm not at all enamored with Figgens. I just don't think he's that much better when we are talking trading one of starters and consider Figgens as a difference maker vs. Pods. He's better, yes. But not 'worth the upgrade' in my opinion.

[WCSox]

Defensively, Figgins is an above average center fielder. He'd figure to be the best LF in the game if he played there all year. He'd be a defensive upgrade of 10-15 runs a year.

 

Their batting lines are a wash, but Figgins has more upside than does Pods.

 

On the bases, it's not close. Pods has lost 2 steps, not one, and Figgins is an elite basestealer. This season there was a difference of 20 net-stolen-bases between the two, which works out to about 10 runs.

 

So even if their bats are a wash, Figgins is 20-25 runs better than Podsednik, which works out to about 2 wins in the standings. Factor in that Figgins still has some room to improve with the bat, and you could easily make the case for Figgins being 3-5 wins better than Pods. Well worth the upgrade.

Figgins is terrible at third, but he's a very good CFer, and he has a decent arm. It's not a canon, but it's very good for a little guy. WAY WAY better than Pods.

 

That's pretty much the way I see it. They're not carbon copies of each other. Not even close.

[Milkman delivers]

Imagine how perfect it would be to fill in our LF/Leadoff hitter hole by not even trading our one young/cheap starter?

 

That's way too good to be true.

[The Ginger Kid]

Defensively, Figgins is an above average center fielder. He'd figure to be the best LF in the game if he played there all year. He'd be a defensive upgrade of 10-15 runs a year.

 

Their batting lines are a wash, but Figgins has more upside than does Pods.

 

On the bases, it's not close. Pods has lost 2 steps, not one, and Figgins is an elite basestealer. This season there was a difference of 20 net-stolen-bases between the two, which works out to about 10 runs.

 

So even if their bats are a wash, Figgins is 20-25 runs better than Podsednik, which works out to about 2 wins in the standings. Factor in that Figgins still has some room to improve with the bat, and you could easily make the case for Figgins being 3-5 wins better than Pods. Well worth the upgrade.

Figgins is terrible at third, but he's a very good CFer, and he has a decent arm. It's not a canon, but it's very good for a little guy. WAY WAY better than Pods.

He's not terrible at 3b but he doesn't belong there. I've seen him make some pretty dazzling plays however. The trouble is the Angels move him around too much. Put him in one position and let him play the year there and I think you'll see him take off. He's an excellent bunter and dynamite on the basepaths.

[CWSGuy406]

I honestly can't imagine Stoneman doing Garcia for Santana straight up. If Kenny got that done, it'd solidify give the Sox in that they'd have two pitchers who they'd control for the next four years (at least). It'd also allow the Sox to make a play for next year's stud Japanese pitcher, who, from the short highlights I've seen, has looked better than Matsuzaka. I really wish I had a name to go with the idea; I know Cheat knows it, as I'm sure someone else (I hope) around here does, too.

 

Since I'm not much of a fan of Josh Fields, I'd offer something like Garcia + Fields for Santana + Izturis. Maicer is a cheaper option than Cintron and has better on-base skills, so Ozzie could do more of a platoon at shortstop with Uribe.

 

I'm giddy of the thought of having Santana in a Sox uniform. If Kenny pulled off something like mentioned above, I'd be content the rest of the offseason, no matter what else (good or bad) happened.

Edited November 17, 2006 by CWSGuy406

[Vance Law]

Of course, Pods is below-average defensively in LF (and couldn't play CF or 3B on a regular basis, either) and is constantly re-aggravating the strained groin that he suffered over a year ago. I'd take Figgins over him in a heartbeat.

 

Pods had a worse year defensively last year, but is actually very good in left field. Look at The Fielding Bible, he was I think, ranked 3rd in 2005. All that fast running is good for getting to fly balls in a baseball game. Former CFs in LF are at the top of thet list. As I recall, Pods arm even ranked favorable among LFs. And it wasn't a strained groin, but 2 hernias that weren't discovered till after the season.

[YASNY]

He's not terrible at 3b but he doesn't belong there. I've seen him make some pretty dazzling plays however. The trouble is the Angels move him around too much. Put him in one position and let him play the year there and I think you'll see him take off. He's an excellent bunter and dynamite on the basepaths.

 

That's the best arguement I've seen that supports Figgens. Good job.

[Gene Honda Civic]

It'd also allow the Sox to make a play for next year's stud Japanese pitcher, who, from the short highlights I've seen, has looked better than Matsuzaka. I really wish I had a name to go with the idea; I know Cheat knows it, as I'm sure someone else (I hope) around here does, too.

Kazumi Saitoh. I wouldn't call him better than Matsu, but there's no doubt in my mind that he'll succeed in MLB.

 

If I had to compare his stuff to anyone, I would say he resembles Roger Clemens of the last few years. 4 seam fastball in the low 90's,that he throws it upstairs effectively. splitter that falls off the table at 87-88. It's fricken nasty.

 

Also, if Matsuzaka succeeds, if he's a top 5 pitcher in the AL, we'll never be able to outbid some of the other clubs for top Japanese pitching talent.

[beautox]

I honestly can't imagine Stoneman doing Garcia for Santana straight up. If Kenny got that done, it'd solidify give the Sox in that they'd have two pitchers who they'd control for the next four years (at least). It'd also allow the Sox to make a play for next year's stud Japanese pitcher, who, from the short highlights I've seen, has looked better than Matsuzaka. I really wish I had a name to go with the idea; I know Cheat knows it, as I'm sure someone else (I hope) around here does, too.

 

Since I'm not much of a fan of Josh Fields, I'd offer something like Garcia + Fields for Santana + Izturis. Maicer is a cheaper option than Cintron and has better on-base skills, so Ozzie could do more of a platoon at shortstop with Uribe.

 

I'm giddy of the thought of having Santana in a Sox uniform. If Kenny pulled off something like mentioned above, I'd be content the rest of the offseason, no matter what else (good or bad) happened.

 

Yuu Darvish?

 

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2006 by beautox

[Chisoxfn]

Sorry, I'm at work and just got back from a meeting. Is the speculatoin that we would get Santana and Figgins for Garica? If so where the heck do a sign. I'd run all the way home screaming like a little girl if this were to happen.

 

If not, is it something like the Sox throwing in a Fields or Anderson (or both cause I could accept both) for the deal to happen? Both Fields and Anderson fill serious needs for the Angels.

 

You make some legitimate points. But I'm not at all enamored with Figgens. I just don't think he's that much better when we are talking trading one of starters and consider Figgens as a difference maker vs. Pods. He's better, yes. But not 'worth the upgrade' in my opinion.

Its not even close, Figgins is exponentially better than Pods. Pods is garbage in the field and has no idea to handle the bat and has lost his best asset (a legit basestealer). Figgins on the other hand is young, coming off a down year (yes I know) but can bunt and handle a bat (is also a switch hitter) and if you give him one position he will be the premiere left fielder in baseball or an above average centerfielder who WILL GET BETTER. Not to mention he's an elite base stealer, definately one of the three best in the game.

 

Its an absolute no brainer to acquire Figgins if we have the chance.

 

Garcia/Fields/Anderson for Figgins/Santana.

[YASNY]

Sorry, I'm at work and just got back from a meeting. Is the speculatoin that we would get Santana and Figgins for Garica? If so where the heck do a sign. I'd run all the way home screaming like a little girl if this were to happen.

 

If not, is it something like the Sox throwing in a Fields or Anderson (or both cause I could accept both) for the deal to happen? Both Fields and Anderson fill serious needs for the Angels.

Its not even close, Figgins is exponentially better than Pods. Pods is garbage in the field and has no idea to handle the bat and has lost his best asset (a legit basestealer). Figgins on the other hand is young, coming off a down year (yes I know) but can bunt and handle a bat (is also a switch hitter) and if you give him one position he will be the premiere left fielder in baseball or an above average centerfielder who WILL GET BETTER. Not to mention he's an elite base stealer, definately one of the three best in the game.

 

Its an absolute no brainer to acquire Figgins if we have the chance.

 

Garcia/Fields/Anderson for Figgins/Santana.

 

The rumor is that the Angels offered a package that includes Santana for Garcia. The Figgens talk is just a tangent.

 

Sorry, I'm at work and just got back from a meeting. Is the speculatoin that we would get Santana and Figgins for Garica? If so where the heck do a sign. I'd run all the way home screaming like a little girl if this were to happen.

 

If not, is it something like the Sox throwing in a Fields or Anderson (or both cause I could accept both) for the deal to happen? Both Fields and Anderson fill serious needs for the Angels.

Its not even close, Figgins is exponentially better than Pods. Pods is garbage in the field and has no idea to handle the bat and has lost his best asset (a legit basestealer). Figgins on the other hand is young, coming off a down year (yes I know) but can bunt and handle a bat (is also a switch hitter) and if you give him one position he will be the premiere left fielder in baseball or an above average centerfielder who WILL GET BETTER. Not to mention he's an elite base stealer, definately one of the three best in the game.

 

Its an absolute no brainer to acquire Figgins if we have the chance.

 

Garcia/Fields/Anderson for Figgins/Santana.

 

You've seen more of Figgens than I have. But, I just haven't been all that impressed with him.

[Flash Tizzle]

Garcia/Fields/Anderson for Figgins/Santana.

I have no problem with such a trade.

 

Far as talent is concerned, you can't reasonably expect better than Santana unless Pelfrey is an option.

 

One interesting dilemma would be figuring out which additional pitcher will depart. Would we seek a CF, C, pitching prospects? Intersting to think about. I could live with Sweeney/RH option platooning in CF, although the catching situation desperately needs additional depth. Stewart doesn't work for me.

Edited November 17, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[WCSox]

Garcia/Fields/Anderson for Figgins/Santana.

 

Oh, absolutely. I just don't see why the Angels would give up a young, cheap pitcher with electric stuff for one year of a past-his-prime Freddy at $10 million. The only thing I can think of is that they consider Santana a huge injury risk. IIRC, he had elbow surgery when he was in the minors and his small frame may not be able to support an arm that throws in the mid-90's. That may explain why they shopped him for Crawford and why the D-Rays rejected the offer.

Edited November 17, 2006 by WCSox

[GreatScott82]

Oh, absolutely. I just don't see why the Angels would give up a young, cheap pitcher with electric stuff for one year of a past-his-prime Freddy at $10 million. The only thing I can think of is that they consider Santana a huge injury risk. IIRC, he had elbow surgery when he was in the minors and his small frame may not be able to support an arm that throws in the mid-90's. That may explain why they shopped him for Crawford and why the D-Rays rejected the offer.

Freddy has a lifetime 8-1 record with a 2.99 lifetime era in Anahiem. That might have something to do with it.

[WCSox]

Freddy has a lifetime 8-1 record with a 2.99 lifetime era in Anahiem. That might have something to do with it.

 

He was also awful at The Cell in '04, not very good there last year, and then halfway decent there this year (in comparison to his bad overall numbers).

 

I don't put a lot of stock in how a player pitches in a particular ballpark historically, especially when considering stats from several years ago (back when Freddy was an ace... which is obviously isn't anymore).

Edited November 17, 2006 by WCSox

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(WCSox @ Nov 17, 2006 -> 02:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He was also awful at The Cell in '04, not very good there last year, and then halfway decent there this year (in comparison to his bad overall numbers).

 

I don't put a lot of stock in how a player pitches in a particular ballpark historically, especially when considering stats from several years ago (back when Freddy was an ace... which is obviously isn't anymore).

Somebody miss my post. Freddy was "halfway decent" at the Cell this year? His numbers at the Cell were better than Santana's overall numbers, and his 2005 numbers (which you call not very good) aren't too far from Santana's this past season. We're not talking about "several years ago" here. We're talking about the past 2 and a half seasons.

 

What are you trying to say about Ervin?

 

Look at these splits:

2006 Home: 10-2, 3.02 ERA, 1.10 WHIP

2006 Away: 6-6, 5.95 ERA, 1.40 WHIP

 

Career Home: 19-5. 3.09 ERA, 1.14 WHIP

Career Away: 9-11, 6.46 ERA, 1.53

 

Just some perspective, here's Garcia's numbers at USCF

2006: 4.11 ERA, 1.26 WHIP

2005: 4.38 ERA, 1.39 WHIP

2004: 5.37 ERA, 1.40 WHIP

 

Freddy gets a lot of flack for being "terrible" at home, but Santana's road numbers are much worse than Garcia's numbers at USCF.

Edited November 17, 2006 by santo=dorf

[SoxFan562004]

Just curious... When was the last time the Sun-Times, or any publication, speculated on a trade and then it actually happened?

 

its like were chasing our tails here...

One that pops to my head is Garcia. His name was thrown around for awhile with the Sox as frontrunners, and it actually dropped.... but I do see your point that a lot of trades don't happen

[santo=dorf]

How about geting Jose Molina? The Angels aren't happy with him, his conditioning has been questioned, and they have Mathis and Napoli, perhaps we could get him for nothing.

 

Aside from last year, he hits lefties pretty well, career CS% of 43%, and Hawk always talks about how clutch he is. Anybody (Chisofn?) know much about his game calling?

[SoxFan562004]

How about geting Jose Molina? The Angels aren't happy with him, his conditioning has been questioned, and they have Mathis and Napoli, perhaps we could get him for nothing.

 

Aside from last year, he hits lefties pretty well, career CS% of 43%, and Hawk always talks about how clutch he is. Anybody (Chisofn?) know much about his game calling?

I agree that the Sox need a legit back-up catcher. I love AJ, but he logs a ton of innings.

[RockRaines]

I agree that the Sox need a legit back-up catcher. I love AJ, but he logs a ton of innings.

I will say it again, we have an in house option that plays above avg defensively and can catch the knuckler and throw out runners-Stewart.

[GoodAsGould]

Stewart has very little experiance in catching Haeger... basicly as much as Pierzynski has.

[Rowand44]

Seriously? Santana for Freddy? Where the hell do I sign? I would throw in a Fields as well to get Figgins if necessary, if we could somehow get Santana and Figgins for Freddy and prospect, just wow. Not to mention because Santana has actually proven himself to be a solid starter, we could go ahead and trade another one of our starters for a nice package of young pitching prospects, all of the sudden we have some pretty nice young pitching with Santana, Brandon and whatever package we could land for a Vaz/Contreras/Buehrle. This scenario just got me all giddy

Edited November 17, 2006 by Rowand44