RockRaines Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 QUOTE(AbeFroman @ Nov 20, 2006 -> 11:10 AM) Who is they? btw... great avatar ESPN and local radio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 I agree with the Sausage King. Players who strike out alot and don't walk kill any type of consistent offense regradless of how many HRs they hit. He is going to drive cub fans nuts just as patterson did. However, they will forgive him as he hits the 30th solo home run of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 A few thoughts here... -The Cubs are gigantic idiots if they plan on hitting Soriano in the leadoff spot. Why would you hit your best power hitter, directly after the worst two hitters in your line up? -So is the 3 years for $39 million for Furcal is absurd anymore. If the Cubs make that deal, they save $100 million, 5 years, and a full no trade clause. -A full no trade clause might actually be the dumbest part of this whole contract. The guy is a selfish player, who shows all of the classic signs of regressing once the dollar/"respect" motivation is gone. -If you were going to spend that kind of cash, go out and fix the biggest problems the Cubs have and get two starting pitchers. I would be impressed if both Schmidt and Zitos deals added together total what Soriano just received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 If they pony up a little more cash (significantly less than Sori) for Furcal last year, they dont even need to find a lead off hitter, or a SS. Its like they are walking around in the dark with no flashlight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Nov 20, 2006 -> 11:53 AM) A few thoughts here... -The Cubs are gigantic idiots if they plan on hitting Soriano in the leadoff spot. Why would you hit your best power hitter, directly after the worst two hitters in your line up? -So is the 3 years for $39 million for Furcal is absurd anymore. If the Cubs make that deal, they save $100 million, 5 years, and a full no trade clause. -A full no trade clause might actually be the dumbest part of this whole contract. The guy is a selfish player, who shows all of the classic signs of regressing once the dollar/"respect" motivation is gone. -If you were going to spend that kind of cash, go out and fix the biggest problems the Cubs have and get two starting pitchers. I would be impressed if both Schmidt and Zitos deals added together total what Soriano just received. This is the important concept they are missing. They still need two starting pitchers to have any shot at going deep in the playoffs. As Yoda said "If you chose the quick and easy path you will become an agent of evil." They chose the the path of spectacular move but not the move which will help them win. Unless they add the pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 QUOTE(ptatc @ Nov 20, 2006 -> 12:35 PM) This is the important concept they are missing. They still need two starting pitchers to have any shot at going deep in the playoffs. As Yoda said "If you chose the quick and easy path you will become an agent of evil." They chose the the path of spectacular move but not the move which will help them win. Unless they add the pitching. IMO this is what happens when your marketing director becomes the team president, and not a baseball guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 While 99.9% of the comments in this thread make perfect sense, the fact of the matter is you don't have to be very good in the NL to win. You can't say the Cubs with a healthy Lee and Soriano in the line-up aren't capable of winning 82-87 games, something that would get you 3rd or 4th place in the AL. You get on a roll in the playoffs, and you sneak a world title, like the Cardinals did this year. The Cardinals were one of the worst teams I saw at USCF this year, but they will get rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Bruce also thinks that the Cubs will sign Jason Schmidt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 20, 2006 -> 01:16 PM) While 99.9% of the comments in this thread make perfect sense, the fact of the matter is you don't have to be very good in the NL to win. You can't say the Cubs with a healthy Lee and Soriano in the line-up aren't capable of winning 82-87 games, something that would get you 3rd or 4th place in the AL. You get on a roll in the playoffs, and you sneak a world title, like the Cardinals did this year. The Cardinals were one of the worst teams I saw at USCF this year, but they will get rings. That's the x-factor. The NL is so garbage it's embarrasing. If Hendry can sign a couple of decent pitchers to go with Zambrano and Hill, they'll have as good a chance as anybody to atleast win their division. We know anything can happen after that. Just ask the Cardinals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 20, 2006 -> 01:16 PM) While 99.9% of the comments in this thread make perfect sense, the fact of the matter is you don't have to be very good in the NL to win. You can't say the Cubs with a healthy Lee and Soriano in the line-up aren't capable of winning 82-87 games, something that would get you 3rd or 4th place in the AL. You get on a roll in the playoffs, and you sneak a world title, like the Cardinals did this year. The Cardinals were one of the worst teams I saw at USCF this year, but they will get rings. Two out of the three Cardinal pitchers who started at Comiskey were not on the playoff roster. And they didn't have Rolen either. They did get on a playoff roll but they also got healthy at the right time. They were good enough to hold on in the regular season which wouldn't have happened in the AL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 QUOTE(ptatc @ Nov 20, 2006 -> 11:24 AM) Two out of the three Cardinal pitchers who started at Comiskey were not on the playoff roster. And they didn't have Rolen either. They did get on a playoff roll but they also got healthy at the right time. They were good enough to hold on in the regular season which wouldn't have happened in the AL. And this Pujols guy was just barely coming back fron an injury. He's not bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandy125 Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Has anyone thought about the park factor? RFK vs. Wrigley. IMO, his stats will be similar to last year. I think that the non-contract year will bring his stats down, but the move to Wrigley will pull that back up. So, I see it as a wash. Anybody else think that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 QUOTE(vandy125 @ Nov 20, 2006 -> 03:16 PM) Has anyone thought about the park factor? RFK vs. Wrigley. IMO, his stats will be similar to last year. I think that the non-contract year will bring his stats down, but the move to Wrigley will pull that back up. So, I see it as a wash. Anybody else think that? I see it adding more errors in the field, less assists and stolen bases. As far as the hitting goes? Less doubles perhaps, maybe the same amount of bombs. One thing is for sure, he will have less RBI's considering the cubs cannot get on base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 From ESPN's Keith Law... Cubs pay dearly for Soriano Monday, November 20, 2006 | Print Entry So, let me get this straight: The team that finished last in the National League in OBP in 2006 (and, not coincidentally, second-to-last in runs scored) with a .319 team mark just signed a left fielder with a .320 career OBP and a .337 OBP in 2006 (both figures exclude intentional walks) to replace a guy with a .365 OBP in 2006. And they're paying $17 million per year for the privilege -- until the new player turns 38. I'm sure this will work out swimmingly. As good a year as Alfonso Soriano just had, there are several problems with this deal for the Cubs: 1. He doesn't address the major reason the Cubs couldn't score runs in 2006: their complete inability to put men on base. 2. Soriano is coming off a career year that was well out of line with his performance in the prior two years, so any expectation that he's going to improve is misguided; the salary he's earning presumes that he'll at least hold his level. 3. If Soriano is going to play center, the Cubs are asking him to play somewhere he's never played as a professional, and they block their top prospect, Felix Pie. If he's going to play left, which he played quite well in 2006, the Cubs push that guy with the .365 OBP, Matt Murton, to the bench. Center field carries risk; left field takes a lineup that doesn't create base runners and exacerbates the problem. Soriano will help the Cubs; even if he slips back to his 2004-05 level of performance (28 HR, 77 R, 91 RBI, 18 SB), he's worth about a win over Murton on offense. But no matter what else happens this winter, it's hard to see the value of a marginal win reaching $17 million, and by trading one of their few patient hitters for a notoriously free-swinging one, the Cubs are still going to struggle to put runs on the board. The only difference now is that they'll see all these big, expensive hitters and wonder why. This signing is fantastic news for Carlos Lee and J.D. Drew, who now stand as the only impact hitters remaining on this market, with a good number of potential suitors for the services of at least one of those players (including the Astros, Red Sox, Angels and Rangers). It's also potentially good news for any club that has a big bat to trade. If Soriano does in fact play left field for the Cubs, I'd expect teams to come banging on Jim Hendry's door for Murton; he's 25 years old, has two years left before he's ready for arbitration, is a good defensive player in either outfield corner and has already shown that he can be a capable offensive player for those positions. He has above-average plate discipline with average power; he's had some swing issues, and his back side collapses at times, leading him to work up through the ball and limiting his ability to drive the ball. But for $400,000, he's a major asset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaus kinski Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 That Hendry is such a ZERO-just hear him talk-only makes me sick an idiot has an open checkbook Murton would help us in our vs. left handed problems, would he not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 QUOTE(klaus kinski @ Nov 20, 2006 -> 04:13 PM) That Hendry is such a ZERO-just hear him talk-only makes me sick an idiot has an open checkbook Murton would help us in our vs. left handed problems, would he not? Yeah, he draws walks, has a pretty decent idea of the strike zone, and is not that bad of a glove in left - but he's not a leadoff hitter, and it's going to take a lot more than Matt Murton to pry away one of the Sox starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 20, 2006 -> 04:17 PM) To be honest, I dont see much of a reason, other than the PR ramifications, that the Cubs should be a real serious suitor for one of our starters. It makes alot of sense, and I could see the Sox being interested in Murton. The Sox want a top pitching prospect in return. The cubs don't have one. Rich hill is as close as they get. Donald Veal is a good prospect (former Sox pick) but he's too far down the chain. The Sox want a guy who could be thrown into the fire in '07 if need be. They want them to be knocking down the door so that in a years time we can find ourselves in the same position, being able to move a pitcher to help field a better team in '08. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Nov 20, 2006 -> 02:29 PM) The Sox want a top pitching prospect in return. The cubs don't have one. Rich hill is as close as they get. Donald Veal is a good prospect (former Sox pick) but he's too far down the chain. The Sox want a guy who could be thrown into the fire in '07 if need be. They want them to be knocking down the door so that in a years time we can find ourselves in the same position, being able to move a pitcher to help field a better team in '08. If the Cubs had any talent whatsoever in their minors, I'd be interested in plucking it, because they'd be an ideal destination for one of our starters given their pitching situation. But seriously, they could offer Pie and Murton, and basically whatever else they had, and I still wouldn't have much interest. The White Sox still have a lot of OF guys/prospects, and that's the place the Cubs might be looking to sell people now. The only way that would work is if we wound up with a 3-way, where the Cubs' guys go somewhere and something more valuable comes back to the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Anyone else think that J.D Drew would have been a much better fit for the Cubs for CF, due to the better OBP? Would have been cheaper than Soriano as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 20, 2006 -> 05:38 PM) Anyone else think that J.D Drew would have been a much better fit for the Cubs for CF, due to the better OBP? Would have been cheaper than Soriano as well. I don't know. Drew is more of an injury risk, but if the Cubs were interested in Zito at all, the "leftover" money would have at least given them a shot at aquiring Zito. As it stands, they're still going to strike out a lot, but they have a lot of bangers too. Without at least one new starter, they're still going to lose a lot of high-scoring games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 20, 2006 -> 03:38 PM) Anyone else think that J.D Drew would have been a much better fit for the Cubs for CF, due to the better OBP? Would have been cheaper than Soriano as well. If I were to look only at the OBP number, I'd say yes. But I am really, really, really not a fan of J.D. Drew, as a person, or as a ballplayer. I don't think he can stay healthy at all, I think he hurts his team by holding himself out of games that other ballplayers would play in with injuries as an excuse, I think he's more interested in his own numbers and unwilling to change his approach to hitting at all depending on the situation, and I think he hurts any clubhouse he gets put in (not as much as Barry Bonds for example, but he's not an asset in that way). QUOTE(The Critic @ Nov 20, 2006 -> 03:42 PM) As it stands, they're still going to strike out a lot, but they have a lot of bangers too. But the worry with the Cubs is that they really don't have anyone who can get on base in front of those bangers. So they'll hit a lot of home runs, and almost all of their runs will come on home runs, but they may score the fewest runs on those home runs you could imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 20, 2006 -> 01:18 PM) Bruce also thinks that the Cubs will sign Jason Schmidt. They will. And in all probability, he will get hurt a lot. It's the Cubs way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 I was glancing at the papers and saw a few times that Hendry was suprised at how fast this deal came together. If I can read into that, it tells me that The Phills or Astros weren't in the ballpark for years, money, or no trade, and Soriano's agent jumped at the offer while it was there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinningUgly85 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 The Cubs paid to much if you ask me. I mean don't get me wrong Alfonso Soriano is a great player but I don't think it is necessarily good to keep all your eggs in one basket. Nothing against Soriano but knowing the cubs hes probably going to get injured for the rest of the season or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 What would be more laughable, this deal or the Cubbies throwing 40 million at Vincente Padilla, which I just read (ESPN Insider) is entirely possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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