"Kramer" loses it!!

[Brian]

I'm watching it now. Some of the audience is laughing and Seinfeld told them to stop cuz it's not funny. Richards comes off as very upset at himself on the verge of tears.

[FlaSoxxJim]

That was painful to watch.

 

He does seem sorry, but I think it may really just come off as him being sorry that he may have fµcked up his career pretty badly. I don't know that that's fair either – potentially losing so much with one awful incident, but that's the business.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

That's what happens when you treat comedy as an adult Chuck E Cheez instead of an art form.

 

If you heckle, prepared to be heckled back to an insane degree. This is no worse than Hicks' Chicago "I have a c*** and I'm drunk, I can do anything I want!" incident.

 

I fail to see the outrage about what he said. People came into the show, acted like ignorant jackasses to throw off his set and ruin the evening (Nobody paid to go see the asshats in the crowd starting s***) and he gave them whatfor. Nobody forced anybody to be there and nobody forced any of the people to listen to what he had to say...and most importantly, nobody forced the hecklers to be total jackasses.

[LosMediasBlancas]

I've watched the video and read the apology and I'm confused.

That tirade was aimed at a black man who may or may not have been heckling him from the audience????!!!

Richards is lucky to be alive.

Is he Jewish?

Edited November 21, 2006 by LosMediasBlancas

[AngelasDaddy0427]

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Nov 20, 2006 -> 11:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what happens when you treat comedy as an adult Chuck E Cheez instead of an art form.

 

If you heckle, prepared to be heckled back to an insane degree. This is no worse than Hicks' Chicago "I have a c*** and I'm drunk, I can do anything I want!" incident.

 

I fail to see the outrage about what he said. People came into the show, acted like ignorant jackasses to throw off his set and ruin the evening (Nobody paid to go see the asshats in the crowd starting s***) and he gave them whatfor. Nobody forced anybody to be there and nobody forced any of the people to listen to what he had to say...and most importantly, nobody forced the hecklers to be total jackasses.

 

You fail to see the outrage? I could see your point is their weren't any racial slurs involved but come on.... If you were in downtown Gary and you started ranting that s*** you'd be either shot, stabbed, or have your ass kicked...

[LowerCaseRepublican]

I've watched the video and read the apology and I'm confused.

That tirade was aimed at a black man who may or may not have been heckling him from the audience????!!!

Richards is lucky to be alive.

Is he Jewish?

All this outrage -- It's a testimony to how whiny or society is now.

 

The CNN vid that he "offended all people" is f***ing hilarious. People went to see the Kramer character and they got the man Michael Richards. Because of that, people heckled and he gave them whatfor that he wasn't going to be some dumb cymbal playing monkey that you put quarters into and he performs whatever they want to see rather than what is on his mind. I have no problem in him telling them what he thought of them for being f***ing idiots.

 

You fail to see the outrage? I could see your point is their weren't any racial slurs involved but come on.... If you were in downtown Gary and you started ranting that s*** you'd be either shot, stabbed, or have your ass kicked...

There's a difference between that and buying tickets to a standup show where you know the envelope gets pushed, harsh language gets used and colorful terms/lewd analogies come into play all the time -- like paint on a canvas in a verbal and intellectual art form.

 

When people treat comedy like an adult Chuck E Cheez, this is what results. They can't handle the man not being "Kramer" and so they heckled like f***ing idiots. He let them have it. I fail to see the outrage. If he was a lesser known comic, we're not having this conversation. It's a situation to garner pseudo-outrage and support a pro-censorship, free speech chilling movement all because some jackass heckler got his feelings hurt for being a douchebag and getting it thrown back at him.

[Flash Tizzle]

That's what happens when you treat comedy as an adult Chuck E Cheez instead of an art form.

 

If you heckle, prepared to be heckled back to an insane degree. This is no worse than Hicks' Chicago "I have a c*** and I'm drunk, I can do anything I want!" incident.

 

I fail to see the outrage about what he said. People came into the show, acted like ignorant jackasses to throw off his set and ruin the evening (Nobody paid to go see the asshats in the crowd starting s***) and he gave them whatfor. Nobody forced anybody to be there and nobody forced any of the people to listen to what he had to say...and most importantly, nobody forced the hecklers to be total jackasses.

Have to admit, I didn't expect this reaction from you.

 

If Richards uttered the word one or two times, on accident, perhaps it could have been passed as an isolated outburst. But he continued on WAY too long. Heckling does not excuse that type of tirade.

 

I'm not offended by anything he said -- but it's obvious he went way beyond the limits of addressing a heckler.

Edited November 21, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[AngelasDaddy0427]

He could of done the same thing without the racial slur... he went too far... period...

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Have to admit, I didn't expect this reaction from you.

 

If Richards uttered the word one or two times, on accident, perhaps it could have been passed as an accidental outburst. But he continued on WAY too long. Heckling does not excuse that type of tirade.

Also, I'm not offended by anything he said -- but it's obvious he went way beyond the limits of addressing a heckler.

It's a word. It's just a word. They knew the envelope gets pushed at a true comedy show. Caveat emptor, let the buyer beware.

 

If they didn't want to hear it then they could shut the f*** up at the show and not be douchebags.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Have to admit, I didn't expect this reaction from you.

 

 

Ah, but you have to focus on the standup-as-art form point of view as presented by someone longing for the next Lenny Bruce.

 

I've always liked Richards, from way back in the days of Fridays. But he's no Lenny Bruce.

 

There were no scatological yet brilliant social commentaries in Richards' tirade. There was just a guy onstage losing it in a situation where he'd obviously been able to hold his own hundreds of times before that night.

[Flash Tizzle]

All this outrage -- It's a testimony to how whiny or society is now.

 

The CNN vid that he "offended all people" is f***ing hilarious.

I believe anyone can recognize how outrageous his response was. Although I doubt many are genuinely upset. It's more an issue of people falsifying their anger because anything else could be considered an approval.

 

I don't intend to call you out here -- because I'm pulling this from memory and may be wrong -- but didn't you heavily criticize Guillen when he labeled Mariotti a "f.ag?" The two issues are fairly alike. Atleast Guillen only mentioned his word once, and avoided examples to illustrate his point.

[BobDylan]

Have to admit, I didn't expect this reaction from you.

 

If Richards uttered the word one or two times, on accident, perhaps it could have been passed as an isolated outburst. But he continued on WAY too long. Heckling does not excuse that type of tirade.

 

I'm not offended by anything he said -- but it's obvious he went way beyond the limits of addressing a heckler.

 

He used the wrong word, they fired a "cracker" back. There was equal wrong doing on both parts. Nobody will see it in this light, however, because the "n" word has a larger, or perhaps more well known history.

 

However, hecklers have gotten it worse before. Richards used an ugly word, but I've seen hecklers embarrassed, ridiculed and booed out of the club. Eugine Mirman even went as far as to address a person who e-mailed him. Heckling a talented comic (not talking about Richards) is like going up with your bare fists against a guy with a bazooka. You've got no chance.

Edited November 21, 2006 by BobDylan

[FlaSoxxJim]

I don't intend to call you out here -- because I'm pulling this from memory and may be wrong -- but didn't you heavily criticize Guillen when he labeled Mariotti a "f.ag?" The two issues are fairly alike. Atleast Guillen only mentioned his word once, and avoided examples to illustrate his point.

 

Ozzie's no Lenny Bruce either.

[3 BeWareTheNewSox 5]

I don't care about the word, with all this crap exclusivity about who gets to use it, same with the whole Borat/Jewish thing, whatever

 

where he crossed the line was the '50 years ago you'd be hanging upside down' or whatever the quote was. But then again, if you go see standup or goto a comedy club, don't know how valid it is about being offended (there's some girl comic who does this with every group possible), I guess his took the more serious side, but that could also go with as mentioned above, people expecting Kramer as if that's who he really is, so he can't joke around on a serious subject.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

They can't handle the man not being "Kramer" and so they heckled like f***ing idiots. He let them have it. I fail to see the outrage. If he was a lesser known comic, we're not having this conversation. It's a situation to garner pseudo-outrage and support a pro-censorship, free speech chilling movement all because some jackass heckler got his feelings hurt for being a douchebag and getting it thrown back at him.

 

Are you related to him or something? It seems that you have everything completely backwards...

 

Your first assumption is that they heckled him because he wasn't being kramer. Maybe he just a horrible comic?? That's basically been the consensus opinion...

 

Your other assumption is that the "jackasses/douchebags" were "getting it thrown back at them" when it seems from the video that he was getting it thrown back at him. They didn't call him a cracker (tame, in my opinion) until his whole "pitchforking n*****s" comment along with throwing around the n word about 20 times. The ignorant tirade was uncalled for. Saying he's a washed-up has-been after the ignorance he spewed was called for, in my opinion.

 

He's the jackass and the douchebag for not being a professional and handling the situation in the worst way possible.

[hammerhead johnson]

Not sure, I try not to pay much attention to Mencia - I think he's awful. Not funny whatsoever.

 

Word.

 

I grew up on Cheech. I know a funny Mexican dude when I see one, and Mencia ain't it.

 

Also, doesn't he claim to be Mexican, but he's really German mixed with South American?

 

Who in the hell have you been talking to?

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Word.

 

I grew up on Cheech. I know a funny Mexican dude when I see one, and Mencia ain't it.

Who in the hell have you been talking to?

 

 

He's not Mexican. Who have you been talkin' to?

[hammerhead johnson]

 

He's not Mexican. Who have you been talkin' to?

 

It says on Wikipedia that his mom is Mexican. Bite me.

[mr_genius]

from wikipedia, so take it for what it is. it's probably right, but might not be.

 

"Mencia was the seventeenth of eighteen children in San Pedro Sula, Honduras. His father, Robert Holness, is from Honduras, and his mother, Magdelana Mencia, is from Mexico. "

 

oh, as for Kramer going crazy. that was really suprising. it kind of just looked like part of his act though, i would have probably thought he was going for a really edgy show if it wasn't for his apology on Letterman.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

It says on Wikipedia that his mom is Mexican. Bite me.

 

Good point. I was only remembering that he was born in honduras.

 

 

And no, I'm not biting you...

[hammerhead johnson]

from wikipedia, so take it for what it is. it's probably right, but might not be.

 

I've known two different guys with the name Mencia, and they were both 100% Mexican. This is due to the fact that I went to Gordon Tech, which is/was a good 80% hispanic.

 

So yeah, I was being presumptuous to a certain degree. I'd like to think that I have an ear for Mexican names, because those are my homeboys.

[whitesoxfan101]

That's what happens when you treat comedy as an adult Chuck E Cheez instead of an art form.

 

If you heckle, prepared to be heckled back to an insane degree. This is no worse than Hicks' Chicago "I have a c*** and I'm drunk, I can do anything I want!" incident.

 

I fail to see the outrage about what he said. People came into the show, acted like ignorant jackasses to throw off his set and ruin the evening (Nobody paid to go see the asshats in the crowd starting s***) and he gave them whatfor. Nobody forced anybody to be there and nobody forced any of the people to listen to what he had to say...and most importantly, nobody forced the hecklers to be total jackasses.

 

Are you serious?? Richards is lucky he wasn't beaten to death on the stage, as the crowd cheered. And his apology on Letterman and the fake crying was pathetic, I'd respect him more if he admitted he was a racist ass b****, which he obviously is based on the venom in that video.

[Flash Tizzle]

Are you serious?? Richards is lucky he wasn't beaten to death on the stage, as the crowd cheered. And his apology on Letterman and the fake crying was pathetic, I'd respect him more if he admitted he was a racist ass b****, which he obviously is based on the venom in that video.

I'm not very keen on identifying body language, but throughout the video he didn't come across as remorseful. Sad, droopy face doesn't mean much -- he's an actor. At the beginning he was shifting around in his chair like some antsy schoolgirl. As Flassox mentioned, his apology appeared more for preserving himself than apologizing for the remarks.

 

Although I thought it was perfect how the audience continued to laugh through his emotional ramblings. Atleast in the beginning.

 

As George Carlin once said, don't you ever watch something bad happen, such as a natural disaster, and hope it becomes worse? For entertainment purposes it would have been perfect if Richards snapped right then.

 

His career is basically over, if it hasn't already been since Seinfeld ended. Might as well act sincere so those "afro-Americans" you insulted don't make your life a living hell. Instead of people yelling "Kramer!" at him down the street they'll be yelling God knows what.

Edited November 21, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[3 BeWareTheNewSox 5]

Let's just end all the controversy and call all Seinfeld fans KKK members. But seriously, it's not racist when a black comic rips on white people in general and in the audience. I think this is more of him trying to use that type of angle to respond to a heckler, but it comes off nothing like that because he's inexperienced or just bad at standup. That's also a touchier subject. Maybe under the influence, maybe not used to being heckled and it put him over the top, or maybe didn't think it'd be a big deal since swearing and being offensive (including to the audience) is the norm for a lot of standup comedy/in comedy clubs. He's not right, but someone can't be that dumb in this day and age to be serious about comparisons to slavery or go on and on with those slurs and not fearing for his life. And if he was, I don't see what benefit he'd have from backtracking, crying, or apologizing (to say it in public and really mean it probably would give him no fear or issue with admitting to racism). That's just how I see it

 

 

How ironic, today's Seinfeld on TBS was the one where Jerry buys the black and white cookie, I just realized that like 10 hours later lol.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

This post has been edited by the Soxtalk staff to remove objectionable material. Soxtalk encourages a free discussion between its members, but does not allow personal attacks, threats, graphic sexual material, nudity, or any other materials judged offensive by the Administrators and Moderators. Thank you.

A cunning move by a cunning linguist.

 

A person who supports free speech must therefore be a racist. The chasm in your logic is so immense that it makes the Grand Canyon look like a small crack in the sidewalk.

 

Comics have said and do say much worse (i.e. Lenny Bruce's "How to Entertain Your Colored Friends at Parties" etc.), yet nobody says anything in protest.

 

The people know buying a ticket to standup comedy means that they'll likely hear certain words and ideas that make them uncomfortable. Instead of whining and b****ing, how about they go take a piss, get a drink and then come back at another point in the set that they might like. This is so much manufactured outrage, it is so absolutely laughable.

 

If this is a lesser known comic, we're not even having this discussion. It is just because it's "Kramer" and everybody has type-cast him as that and nobody expects him to use risque and vulgar language. Sorry, but if the audience did not want to be blasted by the artist, then they should have shut the f*** up during the show. They treat comedy like an adult Chuck E Cheez instead of an art form. The f***ers thought the audience was there to see them and got blasted for it.

 

George Carlin once told an audience where there was a heckler "Can somebody just put a dick in his mouth because that's what he really wants!" Should he be blasted on the national media for insulting the gay lobby? He should be forced to come on TV and apologize for his words and unpopular thought! He must step in line. And to take another line from Carlin, I saw a lot of films about conformity and rooting out all unpopular thought like Jeckle here is suggesting. They're kind of old -- from the 1930s. Unfortunately, I couldn't understand them because the narration is in German.

 

And oh yes, the classicly hilarious Bill Hicks bit from Chicago where he blasts the Hell out of a woman trying to ruin his set.

 

Are you serious?? Richards is lucky he wasn't beaten to death on the stage, as the crowd cheered. And his apology on Letterman and the fake crying was pathetic, I'd respect him more if he admitted he was a racist ass b****, which he obviously is based on the venom in that video.

Comics have said lots of things. If you believe what is said on stage as literal truth, then I've got some beachfront property in the middle of a landlocked state to sell you.