Six Imams removed from flight

[NorthSideSox72]

It seems pretty simple to me, as PA said earlier. If they violated FAA regs on when and where to stand or sit, then fine, remove them. If not, and this was just some nervous, small-minded boob giving in to irrational fear, then these people were indeed treated disrespectfully.

[Balta1701]

It seems pretty simple to me, as PA said earlier. If they violated FAA regs on when and where to stand or sit, then fine, remove them. If not, and this was just some nervous, small-minded boob giving in to irrational fear, then these people were indeed treated disrespectfully.

I'll toss out a ditto on that. Without exact details, it's hard to know exactly what they did, but until the plane starts to Taxi and the flight attendents give the safety presentation, usually it's perfectly ok for people to stand up.

[southsideirish71]

I'll toss out a ditto on that. Without exact details, it's hard to know exactly what they did, but until the plane starts to Taxi and the flight attendents give the safety presentation, usually it's perfectly ok for people to stand up.

 

 

Actually its when the fasten seatbelts sign is lit, is when you are supposed to be in your seat with the seatbelt tightened. They usually don't close the door, and start to pull away until everyone is seated, the luggage is under your seat or secured in the overhead.

Edited November 21, 2006 by southsideirish71

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

We didn't really..i think Nuke was refering to the comment the one guy made about us understanding 'their' laws and traditions. They are in our country..how about they observe OUR laws and accept the consequence when they break those laws or rules. Why is it that we should always go out of our way to accomodate them and their rules.

 

 

Exactly. Im sick and tired of hearing Muslims whine that America is not tolerant enough of them when they are openly IN-tolerant of everything that doesn't fit in with what's written in the Koran ( or their own warped interpetation of it ).

[mr_genius]

i don't think the airline did anything wrong. nuke's right.

 

if neo-nazi's were blowing up airplanes and i got on a plane and a bunch of em were on it chanting in german i would hope the airline would do something. common sense should prevail.

Edited November 22, 2006 by mr_genius

[NorthSideSox72]

i don't think the airline did anything wrong. nuke's right.

 

if neo-nazi's were blowing up airplanes and i got on a plane and a bunch of em were on it chanting in german i would hope the airline would do something. common sense should prevail.

Wow. You're equating prayer to neo-nazi chants?

[Balta1701]

Wow. You're equating prayer to neo-nazi chants?

Muslim prayer.

 

Update: so today it seems, one of the clerics attempted to purchase another set of tickets so that the group could go back home, and US Air refused to sell them tickets.

 

One of the Muslim scholars removed from a US Airways flight on Monday today called for imams around the country to boycott the airline after employees refused to sell him new tickets for his flight home.

 

On Monday, Omar Shahin and five other imams had gone to Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport to fly home to Phoenix after attending a conference in Minneapolis of the North American Imams Federation. Shahin is president of the group.

 

But after passengers raised concerns about the imams — three of whom said their normal evening prayers in the airport terminal before boarding the Phoenix-bound plane — the imams were removed from the flight and questioned by authorities.

 

This morning Shahin returned to the Twin Cities International Airport to buy six more tickets for the flight to Phoenix, but a US Airways ticket agent and supervisor refused to sell him the tickets.

 

In an exchange witnessed by a Star Tribune reporter, the unnamed supervisor said Shahin's tickets had been refunded and that he needed to get tickets on another airline.

 

The supervisor then offered Shahin a customer service phone number.

 

"I want to go home. I don't want phone numbers," Shahin said. "I want to buy six tickets."

 

...

US Airways said in a statement that it was aware of the situation and is conducting its own investigation. "We are always concerned when passengers are inconvenienced and especially concerned when a situation occurs that causes customers to feel their dignity was compromised," the statement said. "We do not tolerate discrimination of any kind and will continue to exhaust our internal investigation until we know the facts of this case and can provide answers for the employees and customers involved in this incident."

 

Later this morning the scholars were able fly standby on an 11:15 a.m. Northwest Airlines flight.

(There are a lot more details at that article, encourage you to read.) Edited November 22, 2006 by Balta1701

[NorthSideSox72]

Muslim prayer.

Whatever. Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, I don't really care. Its a disturbing parallel to make.

[southsideirish71]

Wow. You're equating prayer to neo-nazi chants?

 

Okay riddle me this batman...

 

 

I was on a flight to Jakarta about 7 years ago, where I was one of the few Americans on the plane, and one of the few non-muslims on board. Now I dont remember people jumping up to perform prayer. In fact, outside of the bumpy flight and the strange looks from some of the people on the plane the flight was okay.

 

Now lets flash ahead to the year after that. I am on a bird flying to Dubai not real happy about the situation, now some of the faithful are on the plane. A young man and his father performing the Haj. How do I know this, because they explained to me all about how they were doing it. They were from the UK, well at least the son was born there. Now again, they didnt jump to attention, or do anything that these super muslims did on a flight in the US. Now shockingly in all of the information we see from the 9/11 hijackings, the attackers all jumped up at the same time, recited some arabic and then took the plane. I find it ironic that with some muslims performing Haj, and going to the worlds largest Muslim country none of the folks did what these guys did. Why is that.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Okay riddle me this batman...

I was on a flight to Jakarta about 7 years ago, where I was one of the few Americans on the plane, and one of the few non-muslims on board. Now I dont remember people jumping up to perform prayer. In fact, outside of the bumpy flight and the strange looks from some of the people on the plane the flight was okay.

 

Now lets flash ahead to the year after that. I am on a bird flying to Dubai not real happy about the situation, now some of the faithful are on the plane. A young man and his father performing the Haj. How do I know this, because they explained to me all about how they were doing it. They were from the UK, well at least the son was born there. Now again, they didnt jump to attention, or do anything that these super muslims did on a flight in the US. Now shockingly in all of the information we see from the 9/11 hijackings, the attackers all jumped up at the same time, recited some arabic and then took the plane. I find it ironic that with some muslims performing Haj, and going to the worlds largest Muslim country none of the folks did what these guys did. Why is that.

Some are more fundie and others more moderate.

 

The Hajj is mandatory for anybody who follows the religion and has the means to make the trip at least once in their life. Following the Hajj doesn't mean, necessarily, that they are extremely rigid in their religious practices.

[southsideirish71]

Some are more fundie and others more moderate.

 

The Hajj is mandatory for anybody who follows the religion and has the means to make the trip at least once in their life. Following the Hajj doesn't mean, necessarily, that they are extremely rigid in their religious practices.

 

 

So out of the 200 or so people on my flight to Jakarta, not one of them was following the religion as tightly as a few american muslims. Now being that I was the outsider looking in here, wouldnt they act like themselves on this plane going home. Maybe again these were just moderate muslims who dont follow it as strictly as their american bretheren. But then again logic points out that out of the 200, I am sure there was probably someone that was more strict.

 

 

Well I decided to call a co-worker who is Indonesian, and a muslim. I asked him how he coped going back for a wedding a few weeks ago, with not being able to pray. He said that he said his prayers just like usual. He said that they are supposed to stand before Allah as part of the prayers, however that on flights due to flight restrictions it is okay to sit and say their prayers and that is what he used to say. This is what his Imam had taught him back in Indonesia.

Edited November 22, 2006 by southsideirish71

[EvilMonkey]

So out of the 200 or so people on my flight to Jakarta, not one of them was following the religion as tightly as a few american muslims. Now being that I was the outsider looking in here, wouldnt they act like themselves on this plane going home. Maybe again these were just moderate muslims who dont follow it as strictly as their american bretheren. But then again logic points out that out of the 200, I am sure there was probably someone that was more strict.

Well I decided to call a co-worker who is Indonesian, and a muslim. I asked him how he coped going back for a wedding a few weeks ago, with not being able to pray. He said that he said his prayers just like usual. He said that they are supposed to stand before Allah as part of the prayers, however that on flights due to flight restrictions it is okay to sit and say their prayers and that is what he used to say. This is what his Imam had taught him back in Indonesia.

It's always different, SS2K, it's always different.....

[mr_genius]

Whatever. Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, I don't really care. Its a disturbing parallel to make.

 

you're easily disturbed.

 

seriously though, muslims need to realize that they are going to freak out a lot of airline passengers if they get up in the isles of the plane and start worshiping Allah.

Edited November 22, 2006 by mr_genius

[Rex Kickass]

So out of the 200 or so people on my flight to Jakarta, not one of them was following the religion as tightly as a few american muslims. Now being that I was the outsider looking in here, wouldnt they act like themselves on this plane going home. Maybe again these were just moderate muslims who dont follow it as strictly as their american bretheren. But then again logic points out that out of the 200, I am sure there was probably someone that was more strict.

Well I decided to call a co-worker who is Indonesian, and a muslim. I asked him how he coped going back for a wedding a few weeks ago, with not being able to pray. He said that he said his prayers just like usual. He said that they are supposed to stand before Allah as part of the prayers, however that on flights due to flight restrictions it is okay to sit and say their prayers and that is what he used to say. This is what his Imam had taught him back in Indonesia.

 

There are disputing reports about where the imams were praying, first and foremost. Were they doing it on the plane? Or in the terminal? It's fairly unclear first and foremost. It's also fairly unclear exactly what the three imams were doing when they were standing up in the plane - since the chronology isn't clear. They could have been putting stuff in an overhead bin, for all we know. We weren't there and the articles don't appear clear enough to say with any certainty what was happening in the plane, and at what point during boarding procedures the imams were asked to leave the plane.

 

Is it possible that the imams were being disruptive to the point of being necessarily removed from the aircraft because of their on board behavior? Possible. But in that case, you'd think the airline would have more of an answer other than "we're looking into the matter." Is it possible that passengers and flight attendants acted out of an irrational fear because there were people dressed differently, speaking a language that wasn't English and appeared to be praying? Frankly, that's more likely.

 

Personally, I think the imams should try to fly on Northwest whenever possible from now on. Given that one of their major hubs is Detroit, it makes them more likely to be aware of exactly what a threatening behavior from an observant muslim maybe.

[YASNY]

Personally, if I'm on a plane and a group of middle-easterns are behaving in a way that attracts my attention to it, I'm gonna have something to say about. Political correctness be damned.

[NorthSideSox72]

Okay riddle me this batman...

I was on a flight to Jakarta about 7 years ago, where I was one of the few Americans on the plane, and one of the few non-muslims on board. Now I dont remember people jumping up to perform prayer. In fact, outside of the bumpy flight and the strange looks from some of the people on the plane the flight was okay.

 

Now lets flash ahead to the year after that. I am on a bird flying to Dubai not real happy about the situation, now some of the faithful are on the plane. A young man and his father performing the Haj. How do I know this, because they explained to me all about how they were doing it. They were from the UK, well at least the son was born there. Now again, they didnt jump to attention, or do anything that these super muslims did on a flight in the US. Now shockingly in all of the information we see from the 9/11 hijackings, the attackers all jumped up at the same time, recited some arabic and then took the plane. I find it ironic that with some muslims performing Haj, and going to the worlds largest Muslim country none of the folks did what these guys did. Why is that.

I'd like to see where we have this information about what the 9/11 hijackers did. Seriously. If someone has a source other than a movie, I'd like to see it.

 

I can't explain who does what when, and I don't think it matters. Like I said earlier, its real simple - if they followed the FAA rules and regs, then this is just some unnecessarily panicked passenger, and the airline needs to show some judgement. If on the other hand they stood up at the appointed time and that violated the rules, then fine.

 

I'll repeat my theme here, since these discussions always end up in the same place. As soon as this becomes about religion, the battle and the war are lost. There is no winning the "war" on terror if we make it about Islam. You do not defeat an enemy (since we are using the war analogy) by walking right into the traps they set, which is exactly what we are doing if we make it about Islam. The trap is obvious - the extremists use religion as a tool, and use the 95% of that religion that are moderates (just like in most religions) as bait. People here take the bait, get angry at Islam, and then those 95% start to hate us too.

 

It amazes me that people aren't seeing this.

 

 

you're easily disturbed.

 

seriously though, muslims need to realize that they are going to freak out a lot of airline passengers if they get up in the isles of the plane and start worshiping Allah.

No, people need to realize who the enemy is here. Its not Islam, nor is it the Christian Right. The extremists in both camps want it to be that way, because they want a war. The real enemies and causes of this conflict are corrupt governments, poverty, oil (and our dependence on it), fear of the unknown, damage from historical conflicts, Cold War manipulation of the Middle East, and the whole Israel/Palestine mess. Once we shift our focus to those areas, we will start to see some progress.

[southsider2k5]

New story with more on the behavior of the Imams. It seems as if they were aligning themselves just like the 9-11 terrorists did, at least according to this article.

 

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20061128-122902-7522r.htm

 

Witnesses said three of the imams were praying loudly in the concourse and repeatedly shouted "Allah" when passengers were called for boarding US Airways Flight 300 to Phoenix.

"I was suspicious by the way they were praying very loud," the gate agent told the Minneapolis Police Department.

Passengers and flight attendants told law-enforcement officials the imams switched from their assigned seats to a pattern associated with the September 11 terrorist attacks and also found in probes of U.S. security since the attacks -- two in the front row first-class, two in the middle of the plane on the exit aisle and two in the rear of the cabin.

"That would alarm me," said a federal air marshal who asked to remain anonymous. "They now control all of the entry and exit routes to the plane."

A pilot from another airline said: "That behavior has been identified as a terrorist probe in the airline industry."

 

Full story at link...

[Gregory Pratt]

Yeah, I'm with everyone who takes the airline's side on this.

[Balta1701]

Is anyone else suspicious over the fact that there's not a single source who was actually involved in any way with that specific flight willing to give his or her name to the Washington Times in that article?

[Gregory Pratt]

A little. Believe it or not, that was the first thing I thought of reading it but overall, I don't believe the Imams. Not at all.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Mahdi Bray, executive director of the Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation, called removing the imams an act of Islamophobia and compared it to racism against blacks.

 

"It's a shame that as an African-American and a Muslim I have the double whammy of having to worry about driving while black and flying while Muslim," Mr. Bray said.

 

 

best quote ever....

perhaps Mahdi, you're a TAD oversensitive about something? maybe?

[Balta1701]

A little. Believe it or not, that was the first thing I thought of reading it but overall, I don't believe the Imams. Not at all.

Until I see someone willing to actually go on the record, or see the results of the airline's investigation, I don't see myself having a reason to either believe disbelieve them. I will say this...they're the only people out of that whole matter I've seen who appear to be willing to speak on record.

[kapkomet]

It sounds to me like 6 muslims knew EXACTLY what they were doing, and they knew that it was ABSOLUTELY going to attract attention. No, they weren't going to do anything, but me thinks that they certainly wanted to make a spectacle of themselves.

 

I'm with YAS. Screw political correctness. If you stand up and SHOUT "ALLAH" and then get on the plane, controlling all of the exits of the plane, get your ass off. Bu-bye!

[EvilMonkey]

Until I see someone willing to actually go on the record, or see the results of the airline's investigation, I don't see myself having a reason to either believe disbelieve them. I will say this...they're the only people out of that whole matter I've seen who appear to be willing to speak on record.

Maybe noone on the plane wants to be beheaded?

[sox4lifeinPA]

Until I see someone willing to actually go on the record, or see the results of the airline's investigation, I don't see myself having a reason to either believe disbelieve them. I will say this...they're the only people out of that whole matter I've seen who appear to be willing to speak on record.

 

or perhaps like any good company with a publicist they don't allow their employees to speak to the press.