Six Imams removed from flight

[southsider2k5]

Maybe noone on the plane wants to be beheaded?

 

Or be labeled as an "Islamophobe"....

[Balta1701]

or perhaps like any good company with a publicist they don't allow their employees to speak to the press.

100+ passengers?

 

Or be labeled as an "Islamophobe"....

If the folks who were kicked off the plane were doing what the Washington Times article alledges, including switching seats and so forth, then even I'm not going to label someone an islamophobe for taking notice.

[southsider2k5]

100+ passengers?

If the folks who were kicked off the plane were doing what the Washington Times article alledges, including switching seats and so forth, then even I'm not going to label someone an islamophobe for taking notice.

 

You won't, but a certian part of the Islamic community has been known to not exactly be kind people who cross them. Hell if I saw it, I sure wouldn't want my name connected to it.

[Balta1701]

You won't, but a certian part of the Islamic community has been known to not exactly be kind people who cross them. Hell if I saw it, I sure wouldn't want my name connected to it.

Let me say this then...if I saw that sort of behavior and was one of the people who had a problem with it, I would at least give my name if I chose to talk to the press.

[southsider2k5]

Let me say this then...if I saw that sort of behavior and was one of the people who had a problem with it, I would at least give my name if I chose to talk to the press.

 

You are better man than I am. I'll admit it, I'd be afraid for my families lives if I publicly spoke out like that.

[Balta1701]

US Airways investigation nearly complete, expected to conclude that crew behaved appropriately.

[mr_genius]

I think this whole thing, on the Imams part, was just a scheme to get attention and a quick pay day. I'm sure they knew their actions would cause them to be removed from the plane.

 

suprise! a lawsuit from the Imams

 

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?Stor...11-125716-8798r

[Jenksismyhero]

It's a shame this country continues to pander to the ubber-ubber-minority. What's that? Stereotyping muslims when there is plenty of reasonable suspicion about their activities?! Shame on you!

 

Upset that the Seattle airport is going to have a Christmas tree?! Don't worry! We'll get rid of it for you!

 

Upset about a 'too sexy for shopping' Victoria Secret window display in Detroit?! No problem! We'll have it removed right away!

 

Bless all those groups (all 250 citizens total) that complain and b**** and continue to rule our lives!

Edited December 11, 2006 by Jenksismybitch

[Texsox]

I'm smelling two wrongs here. When the police do this poorly, they call it entrapment. From reading the articles, my guess is the Imams knew their behavior would be viewed as suspicious and pushed those buttons. I think that is wrong, and harmful to the greater good of our society. The airline and the passengers took the bait, and acted in a manner which showed some prejudice towards the Imams.

 

While I dislike prejudice and bigotry, I dislike even more people creating situations and then suing. Two wrongs do not make a right.

[YASNY]

I'm smelling two wrongs here. When the police do this poorly, they call it entrapment. From reading the articles, my guess is the Imams knew their behavior would be viewed as suspicious and pushed those buttons. I think that is wrong, and harmful to the greater good of our society. The airline and the passengers took the bait, and acted in a manner which showed some prejudice towards the Imams.

 

While I dislike prejudice and bigotry, I dislike even more people creating situations and then suing. Two wrongs do not make a right.

 

If I'm on that plane, I'm going make damn sure someone knows what those jackasses are doing before that plane leaves the ground. I don't care who likes it or not.

[NorthSideSox72]

It's a shame this country continues to pander to the ubber-ubber-minority. What's that? Stereotyping muslims when there is plenty of reasonable suspicion about their activities?! Shame on you!

 

Upset that the Seattle airport is going to have a Christmas tree?! Don't worry! We'll get rid of it for you!

 

Upset about a 'too sexy for shopping' Victoria Secret window display in Detroit?! No problem! We'll have it removed right away!

 

Bless all those groups (all 250 citizens total) that complain and b**** and continue to rule our lives!

While I agree about the tree and Victoria's things, I find your first paragraph offensive. Its no different than saying its OK to stereotype blacks as being more likely to be criminals and therefore its OK to pull them over for being black. Are blacks more likely to commit crimes than whites? Are muslims likely to be terrorists? You can find numbers that would back both of those claims, but some of us were raised to judge people on their behavior, their decisions, and their individual merit. That is why the law uses phrases like "probable cause" instead of "reasonable suspicion" when it comes to searches and other actions.

 

It isn't about Islam. If you make it about religion, there is no winning that war. History shows us time and time again that is the case. You have to focus on what is actually going on, and the individuals doing actual harm.

 

 

If I'm on that plane, I'm going make damn sure someone knows what those jackasses are doing before that plane leaves the ground. I don't care who likes it or not.

And thanks to that mindset, fear has won. We're doing exactly what the extremists want us to do - we walked right into their trap. A small number of idiots, who use Islam as a shield, have managed to kink American society so badly that some aspects of it aren't even recognizable anymore. We've forgotten how to be better than the enemy.

[Texsox]

If I'm on that plane, I'm going make damn sure someone knows what those jackasses are doing before that plane leaves the ground. I don't care who likes it or not.

 

Perhaps Northside is right that now the terrorists have won if we react to all people of Middle Eastern looks with suspicion and react as YASNY states he will. But, there is danger in the other extreme. Ignoring obvious threats because they are middle eastern and not wanting to offend, is just as dangerous. What the Imams did IMO, is a modern day "the sky is falling". While we can't single someone out simply by how they look, their actions are suspicious.

 

And before the question is raised, suspicions are raised when people see something out of place or unusual. Their actions certainly were unusual. I've flown literally tens of thousands of miles and I have never witnessed a group prayer like this, of any faith. We are told to report suspicious activity to the proper authorities. I'm with YAS, I would report it. I would also expect the authorities to act in the proper manner and with all due respect for the innocent people being questioned.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

It's a shame this country continues to pander to the ubber-ubber-minority. What's that? Stereotyping muslims when there is plenty of reasonable suspicion about their activities?! Shame on you!

 

Upset that the Seattle airport is going to have a Christmas tree?! Don't worry! We'll get rid of it for you!

 

Upset about a 'too sexy for shopping' Victoria Secret window display in Detroit?! No problem! We'll have it removed right away!

 

Bless all those groups (all 250 citizens total) that complain and b**** and continue to rule our lives!

 

 

This says it all right here. What is so freekin hard about looking someplace else if you dont like something? Why do a few malcontent and hypersensitive people have to use the legal system to spoil it for everyone else who view things as Christmas trees or Victorias Secret displays as perfectly normal and acceptable? To me this is nothing more than pettiness and spite manifesting itself in a bitter but vocal minority within a minority.

 

I dont have stats or numbers to back it up but Im willing to bet that 99% of Jewish people out there aren't angered or offended by the sight of a Christmas display during this time of the year and dont see the need to spoil things for everybody else.

[mr_genius]

We're doing exactly what the extremists want us to do - we walked right into their trap. A small number of idiots, who use Islam as a shield, have managed to kink American society so badly that some aspects of it aren't even recognizable anymore.

 

That is an exremely abstract and generalized conclusion you are reaching. Exactly what aspects of American society have been 'ruined' by the actions of the airline in question?

[Balta1701]

That is an exremely abstract and generalized conclusion you are reaching. Exactly what aspects of American society have been 'ruined' by the actions of the airline in question?

I think he was referring to a different group of roughly 19 Muslims.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Is this an overreaction on the part of law enforcement?

 

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional...rticleid=171422

[mr_genius]

I think he was referring to a different group of roughly 19 Muslims.

 

I still don't see the correclation you are trying to reach. There is a large difference between 'tightening' security in airports and a rapid erosion of civil liberties.

[NorthSideSox72]

I still don't see the correclation you are trying to reach. There is a large difference between 'tightening' security in airports and a rapid erosion of civil liberties.

I am not talking about a rapid erosion of civil liberties, although there certainly has been some erosion of that. I was referring, as stated, to certain aspects of our lives that are warped by our fears. Airline security is one example (not a civil liberty of course). Would you disagree that some aspects of our lives have been changed significantly due to "security" needs?

 

And yes, I was referring to 9/11, not this group of Imams.

 

 

Is this an overreaction on the part of law enforcement?

 

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional...rticleid=171422

Well, that article is so short that there is no telling what went on there.

 

But if the person overstayed their visa, then that alone deserves police attention. So I suppose no, they did not overreact in my view.

[Jenksismyhero]

While I agree about the tree and Victoria's things, I find your first paragraph offensive. Its no different than saying its OK to stereotype blacks as being more likely to be criminals and therefore its OK to pull them over for being black. Are blacks more likely to commit crimes than whites? Are muslims likely to be terrorists? You can find numbers that would back both of those claims, but some of us were raised to judge people on their behavior, their decisions, and their individual merit. That is why the law uses phrases like "probable cause" instead of "reasonable suspicion" when it comes to searches and other actions.

 

Apples and oranges man, it's entirely different. Pulling over a car because you see the driver is black is one thing. Pulling guys of a plane because they're acting inappropriately, making a lot of people nervous in the process, is another. This is precisely my point. Screw the majority of people on the plane. Let's do whatever these six guys want us to do because dammit we have to appease everyone.

 

And for the record there is no law against stereotyping. I can judge anyone and everyone, for whatever reason I deem appropriate. The government can't pre-judge someone. Judges can't pre-judge someone. A plane is not a courtroom. People can (and should) voice their concern, especially in an environment like a plane where you have zero control.

 

It isn't about Islam. If you make it about religion, there is no winning that war. History shows us time and time again that is the case. You have to focus on what is actually going on, and the individuals doing actual harm.

 

Right. And the current going ons in the world are that a s***load of muslims want to see us all dead. Compound that with these six guys, acting in a weird way, eerily similar to the stories we've all heard from 9/11, and I think it's a perfect example of when people SHOULD use their common sense and voice their concern.

 

I'm tired of people trying to tell me (and the rest of us) that we should appease everyone and their mother in the name of fairness and respect. Guess what, life ain't fair. We do the best we can but sometimes people are gonna be unhappy. Get over it. A guy on the radio made an excellent point this morning. One of these days someone is going to b**** and whine about something they don't like, and instead of a major corporation appeasing them and changing, their gonna tell that person to f*ck off. And then we'll be back to being Americans. When we can tell each other to f*ck off and move on with our day.

 

And for the record I don't think it's Reps v Dems. It's both sides. I really wish after something like the Janet Jackson fiasco at the superbowl a couple of years ago CBS (and the government) told all those people to f*ck off and deal with it. If you don't like it, don't watch it. If you can't act a certain way on a plane, deal with it.

 

When 250 million people think one way and 10,000 think another, sorry. Majority wins.

 

(And don't bring up something like the minorities would never get heard. We all know what circumstances I'm talking about here. Minorities without a voice, demanding RIGHTS, is a different matter).

[mr_genius]

Would you disagree that some aspects of our lives have been changed significantly due to "security" needs?

 

The only things I can think of is longer lines at airports. IMO, the amount of incursions on privacy and civil liberties in the name of security has been minimal and appropriate.

[NorthSideSox72]

The only things I can think of is longer lines at airports. IMO, the amount of incursions on privacy and civil liberties in the name of security has been minimal and appropriate.

And for the most part, I agree. Just be aware what they mean.

 

 

Apples and oranges man, it's entirely different. Pulling over a car because you see the driver is black is one thing. Pulling guys of a plane because they're acting inappropriately, making a lot of people nervous in the process, is another. This is precisely my point. Screw the majority of people on the plane. Let's do whatever these six guys want us to do because dammit we have to appease everyone.

 

And for the record there is no law against stereotyping. I can judge anyone and everyone, for whatever reason I deem appropriate. The government can't pre-judge someone. Judges can't pre-judge someone. A plane is not a courtroom. People can (and should) voice their concern, especially in an environment like a plane where you have zero control.

Right. And the current going ons in the world are that a s***load of muslims want to see us all dead. Compound that with these six guys, acting in a weird way, eerily similar to the stories we've all heard from 9/11, and I think it's a perfect example of when people SHOULD use their common sense and voice their concern.

 

I'm tired of people trying to tell me (and the rest of us) that we should appease everyone and their mother in the name of fairness and respect. Guess what, life ain't fair. We do the best we can but sometimes people are gonna be unhappy. Get over it. A guy on the radio made an excellent point this morning. One of these days someone is going to b**** and whine about something they don't like, and instead of a major corporation appeasing them and changing, their gonna tell that person to f*ck off. And then we'll be back to being Americans. When we can tell each other to f*ck off and move on with our day.

 

And for the record I don't think it's Reps v Dems. It's both sides. I really wish after something like the Janet Jackson fiasco at the superbowl a couple of years ago CBS (and the government) told all those people to f*ck off and deal with it. If you don't like it, don't watch it. If you can't act a certain way on a plane, deal with it.

 

When 250 million people think one way and 10,000 think another, sorry. Majority wins.

 

(And don't bring up something like the minorities would never get heard. We all know what circumstances I'm talking about here. Minorities without a voice, demanding RIGHTS, is a different matter).

I don't see it as apples and oranges at all. I think its a good comparison.

 

Look. As you said, there is no law against stereotyping, or any other form of bigotry. You want to feel that way, go right ahead. I'm going to see the world otherwise.

 

One more thing. Don't put this "appeasement" crap on me. I don't want appeasement - I want us to win the war. And I believe the way to do that, the way that actually takes some courage, is to stand up for what is right and not stoop to the level or our enemies. Extremists want us to all be paranoid and fearful, and that is what we are becoming. To me, THAT is appeasement, and it makes me sick.

[Texsox]

Right. And the current going ons in the world are that a s***load of muslims want to see us all dead.

 

I wish you would have been around during the 50s to the 70s when millions of athiests around the world wanted us all dead.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

And for the most part, I agree. Just be aware what they mean.

I don't see it as apples and oranges at all. I think its a good comparison.

 

Look. As you said, there is no law against stereotyping, or any other form of bigotry. You want to feel that way, go right ahead. I'm going to see the world otherwise.

 

One more thing. Don't put this "appeasement" crap on me. I don't want appeasement - I want us to win the war. And I believe the way to do that, the way that actually takes some courage, is to stand up for what is right and not stoop to the level or our enemies. Extremists want us to all be paranoid and fearful, and that is what we are becoming. To me, THAT is appeasement, and it makes me sick.

 

 

It takes courage all right. Takes courage to see the damn thing through.

 

America is a nation of soft-ass pussies. A bunch of pussies who have no stomach to fight against a nasty opponent who would like nothing more than to see American cities burning and its citizens in a panic. You are right that extremists want us to be paranoid and fearful and its a lack of committment to exterminate the threat that undermines us. It does so far more than quibbling about rough interrogation techniques or imperceptable "encroachment" upon civil liberties ever could.

[Texsox]

It takes courage all right. Takes courage to see the damn thing through.

 

America is a nation of soft-ass pussies. A bunch of pussies who have no stomach to fight against a nasty opponent who would like nothing more than to see American cities burning and its citizens in a panic. You are right that extremists want us to be paranoid and fearful and its a lack of committment to exterminate the threat that undermines us. It does so far more than quibbling about rough interrogation techniques or imperceptable "encroachment" upon civil liberties ever could.

LMAO

Yet our murder rate is higher than almost every major country. We've killed more people in wars than any civilization in history. I guess we could step up the torture and take over a few countries. You would have been great during the crusades. Rape and pillage the NukeClevland way.

[Jenksismyhero]

LMAO

Yet our murder rate is higher than almost every major country. We've killed more people in wars than any civilization in history. I guess we could step up the torture and take over a few countries. You would have been great during the crusades. Rape and pillage the NukeClevland way.

 

 

I call BS. Give me proof of that. Germans killed 6 million innocent people in one war. I doubt the US has killed that many in all wars combined.