43 years ago today

[BHAMBARONS]

JFK anniversary

 

 

Been to Deadly Plaza once it has an odd feel to it. I bet it was a circus around there today.

[Texsox]

Sad day, yet a great testimony to our system of self government. We had an orderly transition.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Sad day, yet a great testimony to our system of self government. We had an orderly transition.

 

I wonder when historians will finally consider it a coup?

[Gregory Pratt]

I wonder when historians will finally consider it a coup?

 

Never. Oswalt fired his magic bullet alone.

 

I've always believed that Nixon and Johnson and the CIA were all involved.

 

http://mtracy9.tripod.com/kennedy.html

 

Richard Nixon claimed to remember where he was during another momentous event -- the assassination of John F. Kennedy on November 22, 1963. Nixon said that he first heard about Kennedy's death during a taxi ride in New York City. However, a United Press International photo taken that day tells a different story. The photo shows a "shocked Richard Nixon" (as the caption reads) having already learned of Kennedy's assassination upon his arrival at New York's Idlewild Airport -- in other words, before his alleged taxi ride. Perhaps Nixon was trying to deflect attention from the fact that the plane he had arrived on had originated from Dallas, Texas. Indeed, Nixon (as he later admitted) had been in Dallas from November 20 to the 22. While in Dallas, Nixon had attended meetings with right-wing politicians and executives from the Pepsi-Cola company. Nixon's Taxi-Cab Tales: Click to read

 

Journalist Jim Marrs gives this account: "With Nixon in Dallas was Pepsi-Cola heiress and actress Joan Crawford. Both Nixon and Crawford made comments in the Dallas newspapers to the effect that they, unlike the President, didn't need Secret Service protection, and they intimated that the nation was upset with Kennedy's policies. It has been suggested that this taunting may have been responsible for Kennedy's critical decision not to order the Plexiglas top placed on his limousine on November 22." [Note: The Pepsi-Cola company had a sugar plantation and factory in Cuba, which the Cuban government nationalized in 1960.*]

 

Other facts linking Nixon to the JFK assassination emerged years later during the Watergate conspiracy, some of which were revealed by Nixon's former chief of staff, H. R. Haldeman. In his book, The Ends of Power, Haldeman cites several conversations where Nixon expressed concern about the Watergate affair becoming public knowledge and where this exposure might lead. Haldeman writes:

 

"In fact, I was puzzled when he [Nixon] told me, 'Tell Ehrlichman this whole group of Cubans [Watergate burglars] is tied to the Bay of Pigs.' After a pause I said, 'The Bay of Pigs? What does that have to do with this [the Watergate burglary]?' But Nixon merely said, 'Ehrlichman will know what I mean,' and dropped the subject."

 

Later in his book, Haldeman appears to answer his own question when he says, "It seems that in all of those Nixon references to the Bay of Pigs, he was actually referring to the Kennedy assassination."

 

If Haldeman's interpretation is correct, then Nixon's instructions for him to, "Tell Ehrlichman this whole group of [anti-Castro] Cubans is tied to the Bay of Pigs," was Nixon's way of telling him to inform Ehrlichman that the Watergate burglars were tied to Kennedy's murder. (It should be noted that many Cuban exiles blamed Kennedy for the failure to overthrow Castro at the Bay of Pigs, pointing to Kennedy's refusal to provide direct U.S. military support for the invasion.)

 

Haldeman also links the CIA to the Watergate burglars and, by implication, to the Kennedy assassination. Haldeman writes, "...at least one of the burglars, Martinez, was still on the CIA payroll on June 17, 1972 -- and almost certainly was reporting to his CIA case officer about the proposed break-in even before it happened [his italics]."

 

The other Watergate conspirators included G. Gordon Liddy, Frank Sturgis, Virgilio Gonzales and E. Howard Hunt. Hunt's relationship with the Cuban exiles traces back to the early 1960s, to his days with the CIA. As a political officer and propaganda expert, Hunt helped plan the Bays of Pigs invasion and was instrumental in creating the Cuban Revolutionary Council (CRC) -- a militant anti-Castro organization under CIA control. Hunt would later retire from the CIA (at least ostensibly) to become covert operations chief for the Nixon White House. [Note: Hunt maintained a working relationship with the CIA even after his "retirement," obtaining camera equipment and disguises from the CIA's Technical Services Division for use in the Watergate burglary.]

 

Several reports over the years have placed Hunt in Dallas at the time of the Kennedy assassination. In 1974, the Rockefeller Commission concluded that Hunt used eleven hours of sick leave from the CIA in the two-week period preceding the JFK assassination. Later, in a 1985 trial, eyewitness Marita Lorenz testified that she saw Hunt pay off a CIA-backed assassination team in Dallas the night before Kennedy's murder. (Hunt v. Liberty Lobby; U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida; 1985) Click to read transcript

 

In taped conversations with Haldeman, Nixon is obviously worried about what would happen if Hunt's involvement in the Watergate conspiracy came to light. Nixon says, "Of course, this Hunt, that will uncover a lot of things. You open that scab, there's a hell of a lot of things, and we feel that it would be very detrimental to have this thing go any further ... the President believes that it is going to open the whole Bay of Pigs thing up again." Click to Listen: Nixon instructs Haldeman (text below)

 

NIXON: When you get in to these people, say: "Look, the problem is that this will open the whole, the whole Bay of Pigs thing, and the President just feels that..." ah, I mean, without going into the details of, of lying to them to the extent to say that there is no involvement. But, you can say, "This is sort of a comedy of errors, bizarre," without getting into it, "The President's belief is that this is going to open the whole Bay of Pigs thing up again. And, ah because ah these people are playing for, for keeps and that they should call the FBI in and we feel that ... that we wish for the country, don't go any further into this case, period!"

 

Eleven days after Hunt's arrest for the Watergate burglary, L. Patrick Gray, acting FBI Director, was called to the White House and told by Nixon aide John Ehrlichman to "deep six" written files taken from Hunt's personal safe. The FBI Director was told that the files were "political dynamite and clearly should not see the light of day." Gray responded by taking the material home and burning it in his fireplace.

 

 

Futhermore, as former White House correspondent Don Fulsom reveals, "The newest Nixon tapes are studded with deletions -- segments deemed by government censors as too sensitive for public scrutiny. 'National Security' is cited. Not surprisingly, such deletions often occur during discussions involving the Bay of Pigs, E. Howard Hunt, and John F. Kennedy. One of the most tantalizing nuggets about Nixon's possible inside knowledge of JFK assassination secrets was buried on a White House tape until 2002. On the tape, recorded in May of 1972, the president confided to two top aides that the Warren Commission pulled off 'the greatest hoax that has ever been perpetuated.' Unfortunately, he did not elaborate."

 

http://www.totse.com/en/conspiracy/dead_kennedys/161963.html

 

As long as assassins get away with murder, every suicide and every accidental death is a potential murder.

 

A newly discovered FBI document reveals that George Bush was directly involved in the 1963 murder of President John Kennedy. The document places Bush working with the now-famous CIA agent, Felix Rodriguez, recruiting right-wing Cuban exiles for the invasion of Cuba. It was Bush's CIA job to organize the Cuban community in Miami for the invasion. The Cubans were trained as marksmen by the CIA. Bush at that time lived in Texas. Hopping from Houston to Miami weekly, Bush spent 1960 and '61 recruiting Cubans in Miami for the invasion. That is how he met Felix Rodriguez.

 

You may remember Rodriguez as the Iran-contra CIA agent who received the first phone call telling the world the CIA plane flown by Gene Hasenfus had crashed in Nicaragua. As soon as Rodriguez heard that the plane crashed, he called his long-time CIA supervisor, George Bush. Bush denied being in the contra loop, but investigators recently obtained copies of Oliver North's diary, which documents Bush's role as a CIA supervisor of the contra supply network.

 

In 1988 Bush told Congress he knew nothing about the illegal supply flights until 1987, yet North's diary shows Bush at the first planning meeting Aug. 6, 1985. Bush's "official" log placed him somewhere else. Such double sets of logs are intended to hide Bush's real role in the CIA; to provide him with "plausible deniability." The problem is, it fell apart because too many people, like North and Rodriguez, have kept records that show Bush's CIA role back to the 1961 invasion of Cuba. (Source: The Washington Post, 7/10/90).

 

That is exactly how evidence was uncovered placing George Bush working with Felix Rodriguez when JFK was killed. A memo from FBI head J. Edgar Hoover was found, stating that, "Mr. George Bush of the CIA had been briefed on November 23rd, 1963 about the reaction of anti-Castro Cuban exiles in Miami to the assassination of President Kennedy. (Source: The Nation, 8/13/88).

 

On the day of the assassination Bush was in Texas, but he denies knowing exactly where he was. Since he had been the supervisor for the secret Cuban teams, headed by former Cuban police commander Felix Rodriguez, since 1960, it is likely Bush was also in Dallas in 1963. Several of the Cubans he was supervising as dirty-tricks teams for Nixon, were photographed in the Zapruder film.

 

In 1959 Rodriguez was a top cop in the Cuban government under Batista. When Batista was overthrown and fled to Miami, Rodriguez went with him, along with Frank Sturgis and Rafael Quintero. Officially, Rodriguez didn't join the CIA until 1967, after the CIA invasion of Cuba, in which he participated, and the assassination of JFK. But records recently uncovered show he actually joined the CIA in 1961 for the invasion of Cuba when he was recruited by George Bush. That is how Rodriguez claims he became a "close personal friend of Bush."

 

Then "officially" Rodriguez claims he quit the CIA in 1976, just after he was sent to prison for his role in the Watergate burglary. However, according to Rolling Stone reporters Kohn & Monks (11/3/88), Rodriguez still goes to CIA headquarters monthly to receive assignments and have his blue 1987 bulletproof Cadillac serviced. Rodriguez was asked by a Rolling Stone reporter where he was the day JFK was shot, and claims he can't remember.

 

George Bush claims he never worked for the CIA until he was appointed director by former Warren Commission director and then President Jerry Ford, in 1976. Logic suggests that is highly unlikely. Of course, Bush has a company duty to deny being in the CIA. The CIA is a secret organization. No one ever admits to being a member. The truth is that Bush has been a top CIA official since before the 1961 invasion of Cuba, working with Felix Rodriguez. Bush may deny his actual role in the CIA in 1959, but there are records in the files of Rodriguez and others involved in the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba that expose Bush's role. The corporations would not put somebody in charge of all the state secrets held by the CIA unless he was experienced and well trained in the CIA. (Source: Project Censored Report, Feb 1989, Dr Carl Jensen, Sonoma State College).

 

Recently I interviewed former CIA liaison officer L. Fletcher Prouty. He is a consultant for the excellent new movie on how the CIA killed JFK, being made by Oliver Stone. He told me that one of the projects he did for the CIA was in 1961 to deliver US Navy ships from a Navy ship yard to the CIA agents in Guatemala planning the invasion of Cuba. He said he delivered three ships to a CIA agent named George Bush, who had the 3 ships painted to look like they were civilian ships. That CIA agent then named the 3 ships after: his wife, his home town and his oil company. He named the ships: Barbara, Houston & Zapata. Any book on the history of the Bay of Pigs will prove the names of those 3 ships. Again, this is more finger prints of George Bush's involvement in the Bay of Pigs invasion. Yet Bush denies his role in this great adventure. Why would Bush be so shy about his role in this war? What is the secret? Is there something dirty about this war that Bush & Nixon don't want the public to know about?

 

Answer: Yes there is. The same people involved in the Bay of Pigs were the people involved in the Watergate burglary. Why was the Watergate burgalarized [sic]? The CIA was trying to plug up a possible news leak. They were trying to stop the Democrats from publishing the photos of Hunt & Sturgis under arrest for the murder of JFK (May 7, 1977, SF Chronicle.)

 

Presently, there is a law suit attempting to force the government to release the records about the Bay of Pigs invasion. Why are those documents still secret? Why are they locked in the National Archives along with all the photos from [the] Dallas assassination of JFK? Why are the 4000 hours of Watergate tapes in which Nixon is babbling about the mysterious connections between the Bay of Pigs, Dallas and Watergate also being sealed in the National Archives? Is it because all three incidents are connected?

 

Yes. We must demand the secret files on these 3 cases be released now. For a copy of the petition to release the files, please write to: Paul Kangas, private investigator, POB 422644, SF, Ca 94142. Thanks to Oliver Stone's blockbuster new movie on JFK there is now sufficient national movement to reopen all these cases. The White House fears Stone's new movie so much that they have hired more CIA journalists to slander the movie & Stone. Don't fall for it. Every serious investigator now agrees that Oswald did not shoot JFK. That James Earl Ray did not shoot Dr. Martin Luther King and that Sirhan Sirhan did not shoot Robert Kennedy. These cases must be reopened so that Sirhan and Ray can be set free. The only bar that keeps Sirhan in prison is the tremendous anti-arab racism in Americans: in both blacks & whites.

 

According to a biography of Richard Nixon, his close personal and political ties with the Bush family go back to 1941 when Nixon claims he read an ad in an L A. newspaper, placed by a wealthy group of businessmen, led by Preston Bush, the father of George Bush. They wanted a young, malleable candidate to run for Congress. Nixon applied for the position and won the job. Nixon became a mouthpiece for the Bush group. (Source: Freedom Magazine, 1986, L.F. Prouty).

 

In fact, Preston Bush is credited with creating the winning ticket of Eisenhower-Nixon in 1952.(Source: George Bush, F. Green, Hipocrene, 1988).

 

Newly discovered FBI documents prove that Jack Ruby has been an employee of Richard Nixon since 1947. That that [sic] FBI document Ruby is listed as working as a spy & hit man for Nixon. On Nov. 22, 63 Ruby was seen by a women who knew him well, Julian Ann Mercer, approximately an hour before the arrival of JFK's motorcade, unloading a man carrying a rifle in a case at the Grassy Knoll from his car. Ruby later was seen on national TV killing a witness who could link Nixon & Bush to the killing of JFK: Oswald. On the Trail of the Assassins, Garrison, p xiii.

 

Richard Nixon was Vice President from 1952 until 1960. In fact, Nixon was given credit for planning Operation 40, the secret 1961 invasion of Cuba, during his 1959 campaign for President After Batista was kicked out by the starving people of Cuba, and Fidel Castro came to power, Castro began telling American corporations they would have to pay Cuban employees decent wages. Even worse, Pepsi Cola was told it would now have to pay world market prices for Cuban sugar.

 

Pepsi, Ford Motor Co., Standard Oil and the Mafia drug dealers decided Fidel had to be removed since his policies of requiring corporations to pay market wages was hurting their profits. So the corporations asked then Vice-President Nixon to remove Fidel. Nixon promised he would, just as soon as he'd won the 1960 elections against some underdog, an unknown Democrat named John Kennedy. It would be an easy victory for Nixon. The polls had Nixon winning by a landslide. Besides, Kennedy was a Catholic, and Americans would no more elect a Catholic President than they would elect a woman, a black or a Jew.

 

This was 1959. Nixon told Pepsi, Standard Oil and other corporations who lost property given back to the farmers of Cuba, that if they would help him win, he would authorize an invasion to remove Castro. To further impress contributors to his campaign, then Vice-President Nixon asked the CIA to create Operation 40, a secret plan to invade Cuba, just as soon as he won.

 

The CIA put Texas millionaire and CIA agent George Bush in charge of recruiting Cuban exiles into the CIA's invasion army. Bush was working with another Texas oilman, Jack Crichton, to help him with the invasion. A fellow Texan, Air Force General Charles Cabel, was asked to coordinate the air cover for the invasion.

 

Most of the CIA leadership around the invasion of Cuba seems to have been people from Texas. A whole Texan branch of the CIA is based in the oil business. If we trace Bush's background in the Texas oil business we discover his two partners in the oil-barge leasing business: Texan Robert Mosbacher and Texan James Baker. Mosbacher is now Secretary of Commerce and Baker is Secretary of State, the same job Dulles held when JFK was killed. (Source: Common Cause magazine, 3-4/90).

 

On the Watergate tapes, June 23, 1972, referred to in the media as the "smoking gun" conversation, Nixon and his Chief of Staff, H.R. Haldeman, discussed how to stop the FBI investigation into the CIA Watergate burglary. They were worried that the investigation would expose their conection to "the Bay of Pigs thing." Haldeman, in his book The Ends of Power, reveals that Nixon always used code words when talking about the 1963 murder of JFK. Haldeman said Nixon would always refer to the assassination as "the Bay of Pigs."

 

On that transcript we find Nixon discussing the role of George Bush's partner, Robert Mosbacher, as one of the Texas fundraisers for Nixon. On the tapes Nixon keeps refering to the "Cubans" and the "Texans." The "Texans" were Bush, Mosbacher and Baker. This is another direct link between Bush and evidence linking Nixon and Bush to the Kennedy assassination.

 

In the same discussion Nixon links "the Cubans," "the Texans," "Helms," "Hunt," "Bernard Barker," Robert "Mosbacher" and "the Bay of Pigs." Over and over on the Watergate tapes, these names come up around the discussion of the photos from Dallas that Nixon was trying to obtain when he ordered the CIA to burglarize the Watergate. (Source: Three Men and a Barge", Teresa Riordan, Common Cause magazine, March/April 1990, and San Francisco Chronicle, May 7,1977, interview with Frank Sturgis in which he stated that "the reason we burglarized the Watergate was because Nixon was interested in stopping news leaking related to the photos of our role in the assassination of President John Kennedy.")

 

After Nixon's landslide victory in 1972, he knew he had to centralize all power into the White House to keep his faction in power, not only to hold power, but to prevent the media from digging into how he secretly shot his way into the White House, just like Hitler shot his way into control of Germany. The first thing Nixon did was to demand signed resignations of his entire government. "Eliminate everyone," he told John Ehrlichman about reappointment, "except George Bush. Bush will do anything for our cause." (Source: Pledging Allegiance, Sidney Blumenthal.)

 

The reason why Bush will "do anything" is because his hands have as much of Kennedy's blood on them as do Nixon's, Hunt's, Sturgis's, Felix Rodriguez's and Gerald Ford's. This White House gang fears that if the public ever realizes how they shot their way into power it could set off a spark that would destroy their fragile fraud and land them in jail.

 

Other famous Watergate members of the CIA invasion that Bush recruited were Frank Sturgis, E. Howard Hunt, Bernard Barker and Rafael Quintero. Quintero has said publicly that if he ever told what he knew about Dallas and the Bay of Pigs, "It would be the biggest scandal ever to rock the nation."

 

Meanwhile, in 1960, Preston Bush was running Nixon's campaign. Nixon was sent to South Vietnam to assure the French- connection government there that if France pulled out, the U.S. would step in to protect the drug trade from the GoIden Triangle. (Source: Frontline, 1988, "Guns. Drugs and the CIA"; Alexander Cockburn; "Cocaine, the CIA and Air America," S.F. Examiner, Feb. 2, '91; The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia, Alfred McCoy, 1972.)

 

In 1959, Vice President Nixon was flying all over the world, acting just like presidential material. It was an easy race for Nixon. Congressman Jerry Ford was doing a great job fundraising for Nixon, as was George Bush. The rich loved Nixon. The media picked up every bone Nixon tossed out to them. The biggest problem was that Nixon was afraid to speak openly of his plan to invade Cuba. The plan was a secret. No sense in alerting Cuba to the coming invasion. But Kennedy was taking a harder line on Cuba than Nixon, because Kennedy was not aware of the corporate/CIA planned invasion.

 

Nixon lost the 1960 race by the smallest margin in history. At first Bush, Nixon, Cabel and Hunt decided to just go ahead with the invasion, without informing President Kennedy. Then, at the last second, at 4 a.m., just two hours before the invasion was set to go, General Cabel called JFK and asked for permission to provide U.S. air cover for the CIA invasion. Kennedy said no.

 

The CIA was furious with JFK but decided to go ahead with their private invasion anyway. Due to poor intelligence, the CIA landed at the worst possible beach. A swamp. The invasion failed. The CIA lost 15 of its best men, killed, with another 1100 in Cuban prisons. It was the worst single blow the CIA ever suffered. (Source: F. Howard Hunt, Give Us This Day.)

 

Bush, Nixon and Hunt blamed Cabel for asking Kennedy and blamed Kennedy for saying no. They were livid with anger. Nixon's corporate sponsors ordered JFK to make any deal necessary to recover the 1100 CIA agents imprisoned in Cuba. JFK did. Once the CIA had its well-trained Cubans back, they decided to continue the invasion of Cuba just as soon as they could get rid of that S.O.B. Kennedy.

 

The 1964 election was fast approaching. Nixon was running against Kennedy again. Bush, Ford and Nixon knew that they had to get rid of JFK now, or else the Kennedy clan, with Robert and Ted in the wings, could control the White House until 1984. They decided not to wait until '84 to get back in the White House. The Cuban teams of "shooters" began following Kennedy from city to city looking for a window of opportunity to shoot from. They came close in Chicago, but couldn't get the cooperation of Mayor Daley.

 

But in Dallas they had an ace. The mayor was the brother of General Cabel, whom the CIA blamed for the failure of the invasion. The general prevailed on his brother, Earl, and the motorcade was changed to pass the grassy knoll at 7 m.p.h. Hunt and Sturgis shot JFK from the grassy knoll. They were arrested, photographed and seen by 15 witnesses. But the media turned a blind eye to the photos, and for 25 years the world has been searching for the truth.

 

On the day JFK was murdered, Nixon, Hunt and some of the Watergate crew were photographed in Dallas, as were a group of Cubans, one holding an umbrella up, like a signal, next to the President's limo just as Kennedy was shot. The Cubans can be seen holding up the signal umbrella in the Zapruder film and dozens of stills taken during the assassination. After the murder they can be seen calmly walking away.

 

Nixon denied he was in Dallas that day, but new photos and stories prove he was there. Nixon claimed to the FBI he couldn't remember where he was when JFK was killed. (Source: FBI memo, Feb. 23, 1964, published in Coup d'etat in America, Weberman & Canfield). Bush, too, claims he can't remember where he was. Jack Anderson did a TV special in 1988 proving beyond any shadow of doubt that two of the tramps arrested in Dallas behind the grassy knoll were Hunt and Sturgis.

 

After the murder, former Vice President Nixon asked President Lyndon Johnson to appoint Nixon's friend, former FBI agent Jerry Ford, to run the Warren Commission. Nixon also asked LBJ to appoint Nixon's long-time supporter, Judge Earl Warren, to head the Commission. LBJ agreed. Ford interviewed all the witnesses and decided which ones would be heard and which ones eliminated. It is no coincidence that Nixon selected Ford as his Vice President after Spiro Agnew was ousted. When Nixon himself got busted in the Watergate scandal, Earl Warren offered to set up another special commission if it would help get him out of trouble again. Ford, of course, pardoned Nixon for the Watergate burglary but Nixon is still not out of the woods. There are 4000 hours of Watergate tape. On the June 23, 1972, discussions with John Ehrlichman and Haldeman there is clear evidence that Nixon is openly "confessing" to hiring Hunt to kill JFK. That is why the Watergate "investigation" went into secret session after Congress heard some of the tapes. This is why only 12 hours of 4000 hours have been released to the public.

 

Did Congress realize that Nixon and Bush had openly discussed killing JFK for stopping the air cover for the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba? Remember, Nixon taped virtually every discussion he had with anyone in his inner circle, including Bush, in order to blackmail people later. There is a photo of Bush reporting to Nixon in the White House in 1968. It will be interesting to see what they were talking about on that day, when the full 4000 hours are finally released. The key to unlocking the secrets behind the 1963 murder of JFK is hidden in the 3988 hours of unreleased White House tapes. Bush was in Dallas the day Reagan was shot. (Source: George Bush, F. Green, 1988.) That must have given Bush a flashback to November 22,1963.

 

I don't believe it'll ever be considered more than the work of one idiot, though. Maybe in a hundred years? Don't know.

 

I do know that in his book Tip O'Neill says that the Kennedy family and Kennedy's closest aides were going to tell the world that they'd heard MANY gunshots but at the request of the Kennedy family they said they didn't. Of course, the Kennedy family has plenty to cover up, too.

 

I've always believed that the 1960s were the, oh, fourth biggest threat to our Democracy and not because of the Weather Underground and other crazed hippies but because three of the sickest men to ever hold office held office. Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon. A mobster, a baboon and the American Caligula, as Hunter Thompson called him once.

[southsider2k5]

JFK anniversary

Been to Deadly Plaza once it has an odd feel to it. I bet it was a circus around there today.

 

I went a few years back and couldn't believe how small the area was. I could see how lots of the conspiracies started just from that alone.

[Gregory Pratt]

I went a few years back and couldn't believe how small the area was. I could see how lots of the conspiracies started just from that alone.

 

That plays a part, for sure, but it's not as important to conspiracies as the fact that, oh, Oswalt couldn't have possibly have done it unless you believe him to be one of the greatest sharpshooters alive with a gun that shoots magic bullets.

[BHAMBARONS]

During our classes last week we looked into this case from a legal aspect. First conclusion highly unlikely that Oswald would have been convicted. Ruby done a favor for the state of Texas because the murder case even in 1963-64 would have not been a slam dunk. There was sloppy investigation work to go around by the Dallas PD, FBI, and all other law enforcement agencies.

 

 

I was assigned the role of EADA for the mock hypothetical Oswald trial. Evidence that I used:

 

#1. Shortly after the assassination, a rifle was found partially-hidden between some boxes on the sixth floor and the improvised paper wrapper/bag that covered the rifle was found close to the window from which the shots were fired.

 

#2. The windshield in the Presidential limousine was struck by a bullet fragment on the inside surface of the glass, meaning that these fragments came from behind, and not in front, of the President.

 

#3. The Mannlicher-Carcano 6.5-millimeter Italian rifle - from which the shots were fired - was ordered in the name of A. Hidell and sent to Oswald's P.O. Box in Dallas. Alek was the name Oswald used in the Soviet Union and Alek James Hidell was the name on the false I.D. Oswald was carrying when arrested on the day of the assassination. The FBI found Oswald's palm print on the rifle barrel between the barrel and the stock, which could have been put there only when the rifle was disassembled.

 

#4. Oswald was seen with a paper bag/wrapper in a car on the way to the depository. He said, when he was asked, that it was full of "curtain-rods". He said they were for the rooming-house he was living in (while he was living away from his wife) although his rooming house already had curtains and rods.

 

So not a very strong case

 

 

Defense:

 

#1. Over 50 witnesses who were present at the shooting heard shots that were fired from in front of the President; from the area of the grassy knoll and triple-underpass

 

#2.The limousine was struck in the windshield, in the chrome above the windshield and the chrome arounda n ashtray on the back of the front seat. The windshield had a definite hole through it (Frank Cormier, Dr. Evalea Glanges, Dallas Police Officer Stavis Ellis, and Dallas Police Officer H.R. Freeman all saw a 'hole.'

 

#3. William Hess of the Ford Motor Corporation said that having worked with glass for 40 years that in his years of experience, the shot that caused the hole came from the front.

 

#4. It is impossible for Oswald's rifle, the Mannilicher-Carcano (Hurt), to be fired more than once in less than 2.3 seconds (Thompson). According to the Zapruder film, for the first two shots to be fired by Oswald, they would have to be fired in rapid succession (Thompson). Top rifle experts of the FBI were incapable of making the rifle fire two shots in the 2.3-second time frame.

 

#5. Death Certificate located the bullet at the third thoracic vertebra which is too low to have exited his throat. Moreover, the bullet was traveling downward, since the shooter was by a sixth floor window. The autopsy cover sheet had a diagram of a body showing this same low placement at the third thoracic vertebra. The hole in back of Kennedy's shirt also shows the same place where the bullet hit, as does Kennedy's jacket that shows where the bullet hit. Nevertheless, the single bullet theory requires the bullet to move upward when it passed through Kennedy and came out of his throat.

 

#6. Sloppy Investigation, Dallas police detectives failed to take any notes or taping of the interrogation only using there memory only. Dallas Police also failed to keep the body in Dallas to complete the autopsy which under Texas law all homicides must have an autopsy completed in Texas. With the body being moved it allows the entire procedure to be questioned.

 

 

While none of these things by no means clears Oswald it does provide reasonable doubt. Which made my task much tougher. Personally If I was in charge if this case I would have went after Oswald only for the Murder of Officer Tippit that case was very strong 7 witnesses seen him shoot the officer and a dozen more seen him leave and when arrested Oswald had a .38 on him it was also the murder weapon with GSR on his hands.

[NorthSideSox72]

That plays a part, for sure, but it's not as important to conspiracies as the fact that, oh, Oswalt couldn't have possibly have done it unless you believe him to be one of the greatest sharpshooters alive with a gun that shoots magic bullets.

I think you've seen JFK a few too many times. Oswalt's shots (at least one of them anyway) were quite good, but not impossible by any stretch. And while the commission was poorly conducted after the fact, it looks to me like the evidence points directly to Oswalt.

 

Now, as for whether or not HE was a hired gun, I'm open to all sorts of ideas. Lots of possibilities there.

[Brian]

I wasn't even close to existing when both JFK and Bobby Kennedy were killed, but my mom always told me, still does, at how different things would of been if they had not died.

[Rex Kickass]

Had JFK not died, he probably would have been defeated by a GOP candidate other than Goldwater in 64.

[Gregory Pratt]

I think you've seen JFK a few too many times. Oswalt's shots (at least one of them anyway) were quite good, but not impossible by any stretch. And while the commission was poorly conducted after the fact, it looks to me like the evidence points directly to Oswalt.

 

Now, as for whether or not HE was a hired gun, I'm open to all sorts of ideas. Lots of possibilities there.

 

I've seen five minutes of JFK and those were in between sexxxings in a hotel room with my girlfriend when it was airing on TNT or something, thank you very much.

 

There's no way that Oswald was the lone shooter and I'm tempted to say he was just a patsy at best.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Had JFK not died, he probably would have been defeated by a GOP candidate other than Goldwater in 64.

 

 

I'm not sure what you're point is with that comment? That JFK alive has no effect on history because he loses in '64? Your comment was just vague, sorry not being a jerk.

 

 

Sub question... I wonder if Ted Kennedy has ever had information shown to him regarding his brother's assassination and kept it quiet because it would rock the democratic party as well as the nation?

[Gregory Pratt]

I'm not sure what you're point is with that comment? That JFK alive has no effect on history because he loses in '64? Your comment was just vague, sorry not being a jerk.

Sub question... I wonder if Ted Kennedy has ever had information shown to him regarding his brother's assassination and kept it quiet because it would rock the democratic party as well as the nation?

 

As I said in the history thread -- dunno if you've looked at it -- Speaker Tip O'Neill says that the Kennedys all heard gunshots, and their aides did too, from the grassy knoll and from a bunch of different directions, too, but decided to keep it quiet so as to not rock the nation.

 

The Kennedys were mobsters. They know how to cover up a hit and they know that it's important to protect the family's name.

 

I wasn't even close to existing when both JFK and Bobby Kennedy were killed, but my mom always told me, still does, at how different things would of been if they had not died.

 

I'm a fairly Liberal guy...but I honestly prefer Nixon and Johnson to JFK and RFK. Oh, don't even get me started on RFK's phony campaign in 1968. The one he embarked on after McCarthy had proven him wrong on LBJ's invincability.

[southsider2k5]

As I said in the history thread -- dunno if you've looked at it -- Speaker Tip O'Neill says that the Kennedys all heard gunshots, and their aides did too, from the grassy knoll and from a bunch of different directions, too, but decided to keep it quiet so as to not rock the nation.

 

The Kennedys were mobsters. They know how to cover up a hit and they know that it's important to protect the family's name.

I'm a fairly Liberal guy...but I honestly prefer Nixon and Johnson to JFK and RFK. Oh, don't even get me started on RFK's phony campaign in 1968. The one he embarked on after McCarthy had proven him wrong on LBJ's invincability.

 

Out of curiousity, have you ever actually been to the spot of the shootings in Dallas?

[NorthSideSox72]

I've seen five minutes of JFK and those were in between sexxxings in a hotel room with my girlfriend when it was airing on TNT or something, thank you very much.

Why would you even mention that? Do you really need the acknowledgement that badly?

[Gregory Pratt]

Out of curiousity, have you ever actually been to the spot of the shootings in Dallas?

 

No. A friend is taking me to the museum in the Spring, though (and to Astro games).

 

I'm not sure what that has to do with Tip O'Neill's recollection of conversations with the Kennedy family.

[southsider2k5]

No. A friend is taking me to the museum in the Spring, though (and to Astro games).

 

I'm not sure what that has to do with Tip O'Neill's recollection of conversations with the Kennedy family.

 

More to what you refer to in the sounds heard in the plaza than anything.

[Gregory Pratt]

More to what you refer to in the sounds heard in the plaza than anything.

 

Take it up with Tip. That's his recollection. The book is, Man of the House. He says the Kennedys and Ted Sorenson told him they heard noises from the knoll and other directions but kept it quiet so the country could go on and the family could have peace. (Though I believe, of course, it was to protect the family's name because plenty of nasty s*** would've come up about them, too, if the truth, whatever it is, came out.)

[southsider2k5]

Take it up with Tip. That's his recollection. The book is, Man of the House. He says the Kennedys and Ted Sorenson told him they heard noises from the knoll and other directions but kept it quiet so the country could go on and the family could have peace. (Though I believe, of course, it was to protect the family's name because plenty of nasty s*** would've come up about them, too, if the truth, whatever it is, came out.)

 

Well if you had ever actually been down there, you would understand the sound dynamics of the surrounding area. I fully believe that Tip hear shots from where ever he thought, because sound tends to bounce off of things like buildings and hills. There are much more compelling bits of evidence, than what people heard, as sound really tends to distort and reverberate in city-settings.

[NorthSideSox72]

Well if you had ever actually been down there, you would understand the sound dynamics of the surrounding area. I fully believe that Tip hear shots from where ever he thought, because sound tends to bounce off of things like buildings and hills. There are much more compelling bits of evidence, than what people heard, as sound really tends to distort and reverberate in city-settings.

And further, eye witness accounts (or ear witness in this case) are notoriously unreliable. Human hearing is actually pretty poor at figuring out the direction a sound came from, unless the sound is long and/or repeated.

[Gregory Pratt]

I think the Kennedys have actually been there and Ted Sorensen, too. :)

 

I suppose this matter is about done since we're going to go around in circles about sound. My point is that Oswald couldn't have done it unless you believe he was an ace shooter, and that it isn't just nutty movie-makers who believe that: the Kennedys do according to the former Speaker of the House, and that was about all I was saying.

 

Why would you even mention that? Do you really need the acknowledgement that badly?

 

Because it was the truth. You belittled my point as if I've ever watched the stupid movie and I thought I'd tell you that, yeah, I've seen a small, small part of it but was busy with other activities and so no, I'm not Oliver Stone's puppet.

[Rex Kickass]

Flashin the yellowcard here. If this gets personal, we can all move along and talk about something else.

 

Thanks.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Flashin the yellowcard here. If this gets personal, we can all move along and talk about something else.

 

Thanks.

 

I heard Southsider2k5 eats cheese and peanut butter sandwhiches in his underwear on sundays....

[CrimsonWeltall]

Why would he have to be an ace shooter?

[mr_genius]

I heard Southsider2k5 eats cheese and peanut butter sandwhiches in his underwear on sundays....

 

 

what a psycho!