Scotty Po

[Balta1701]

That's a nice theory but the reality is your leadoff hitter is only guaranteed to leadoff once a game. Pods got way too much credit for his contribution to the 2005 White Sox. He scored a very pedestrian 85 runs. He actually was a better offensive player in 2006 save for the batting average and a few more ks. He drove in more, he scored more, he slugged better, and everyone agrees he wasn't very good in 2006.

21 more strikeouts, 19 fewer stolen bases, an OBP 21 points lower. Not to mention the times caught off first.

 

You know the thing you're missing with that analysis? Carl Everett. You put a ton of emphasis into the fact that Podsednik scored only 85 runs in 05, but seem to forget that he had a terrible guy hitting 3rd almost all year. Last year, he was hitting ahead of the Thome/Konerko/Dye monster, so even if he got on base less, he was guaranteed to score more, because the people behind him were better.

[SABR Sox]

By your logic, a team's best hitter should then hit leadoff because he'll have the most PA's, regardless of power numbers, speed, OBP? A team needs a mix of hitters [esp. the sox] or they'll be too much like the 2000-2004 sox, a station to station softball team that's susceptible to slumps and overly reliant on the long ball for scoring runs.

 

I don't thake the notion that far. Usually your most productive hitters hit in the 3-5 sports and they should stay there. However a quality player should hit in the one-spot. Unfortunatley Scott Podsednik isn't (and never really was) a quality hitter.

 

I don't want to get into the 00-04 Sox teams either. Most of those teams were good offensive teams if I recall correctly.

 

You don't need speed and "mixture" of hitter to win. You simply need guys that are going to get on base and guys that'll hit for power. Yankees and Red Sox offenses, nothing wrong with 'em.

 

Combine those offenses with good pitching and your chances of making it into October are pretty damn good.

 

Lineup order is very important. If you don't have guys on base or in scoring position for your RBI's guys, a team will have trouble scoring runs. Most winning teams place a heavy emphasis on lineup order to maximize their chances of scoring runs. To say it's overrated [in the pros at least, maybe not little league] is kinda silly.

 

I agree with the first sentance, which is simply why I don't want Scott Podsednik leading off.

 

I'd like a little bit of everything on top. Power, and even a little speed and decent walking ability. Since thier walk percentages are virtually a wash, one has to choose between a lot of speed, or power. The decision is oh so simple in my mind.

 

Iguchi has better OBP's too.

 

I never said Iguchi hitting leadoff was absurd. But Ozzie and KW have never talked about Iguchi hitting leadoff--only hitting lower in the order like he did in Japan. Only armchair coaches and GM's have talked about Iguchi leading off. The Sox have had chances to put Iguchi in the leadoff spot but haven't done it.

 

And al I'm suggesting is that they give it a shot.

 

Who knows if an opportunity comes along to upgrade at LF and replace Pods with a more powerful type bat Iguchi could end up in the one hole next year. Doubtful, but I'd like it.

Edited November 27, 2006 by SABR Sox

[nitetrain8601]

Iguchi was experimenting with his swing in spring training. I'm not sure if it was because of the change in the lineup, but I think he said he was just trying out some things, they didn't work, and so he went back to swinging like he always did right as the season started. I don't know that he'd start to falter if put into the leadoff spot just because it be a change in the order.

 

Um no, he was allowed to "free-swing" which means take whatever pitch he likes and swing away. He couldn't do that. He wasn't experimenting with anything.

[ptatc]

I don't thake the notion that far. Usually your most productive hitters hit in the 3-5 sports and they should stay there. However a quality player should hit in the one-spot. Unfortunatley Scott Podsednik isn't (and never really was) a quality hitter.

 

I don't want to get into the 00-04 Sox teams either. Most of those teams were good offensive teams if I recall correctly.

 

You don't need speed and "mixture" of hitter to win. You simply need guys that are going to get on base and guys that'll hit for power. Yankees and Red Sox offenses, nothing wrong with 'em.

 

Combine those offenses with good pitching and your chances of making it into October are pretty damn good.I agree with the first sentance, which is simply why I don't want Scott Podsednik leading off.

 

I'd like a little bit of everything on top. Power, and even a little speed and decent walking ability. Since thier walk percentages are virtually a wash, one has to choose between a lot of speed, or power. The decision is oh so simple in my mind.

 

Iguchi has better OBP's too.

And al I'm suggesting is that they give it a shot.

 

Who knows if an opportunity comes along to upgrade at LF and replace Pods with a more powerful type bat Iguchi could end up in the one hole next year. Doubtful, but I'd like it.

 

Combine any offense in the top ten with good pitching and you'll be in october. Our offense is fine. We need to upgrade the pitching staff, the bullpen for this year and the rotation for the future.

[Gregory Pratt]

Um no, he was allowed to "free-swing" which means take whatever pitch he likes and swing away. He couldn't do that. He wasn't experimenting with anything.

 

That was his explanation. Said he was tinkering with his swing but shouldn't have been.

[SABR Sox]

Combine any offense in the top ten with good pitching and you'll be in october. Our offense is fine. We need to upgrade the pitching staff, the bullpen for this year and the rotation for the future.

 

Nobody is arguing this.

[Baines3]

I couldn't complain about that.

[Maverick0984]

i wouldn't mind keeping pods at all :-/ but i know i'm in the minority here

[ptatc]

Nobody is arguing this.

 

Then why propose deals to revamp the offense. Stick with improving the pitching staff. The offense is effective and relatively affordable. Maybe a small move here or there but focus on the pitching.

[SoxHawk1980]

Yes, the #1 need is improving the pitching. But that doesn't mean the team wouldn't be improved by upgrading a dead spot in the lineup.

 

Podsednik is indefensible. He is one of, if not THE worst regulars in baseball. Do I need to point out to anybody that he is a zero-tool player? He does NOTHING well. Many AAA players would be an improvement over this waste of space. Ryan Sweeney is not yet ready for the majors and he's still better than Podsednik. He's had one good half season for the Sox and that's it. He's on the downside of his unimpressive career. Simply put, he's awful and taking him off of this team in any manner would make us better.

[whitesoxfan101]

This team will not win the best division in baseball with Uribe, Podsednik, and Anderson in the lineup. That is basically 3 free outs out of 9 everytrip through the order (33 percent, 1/3, etc). We need a minimum of 1, maybe 2 upgrades at those spots, and damn I hope the trade we make giving up a starter can help us.

Edited November 27, 2006 by whitesoxfan101

[ptatc]

This team will not win the best division in baseball with Uribe, Podsednik, and Anderson in the lineup. That is basically 3 free outs out of 9 everytrip through the order (33 percent, 1/3, etc). We need a minimum of 1, maybe 2 upgrades at those spots, and damn I hope the trade we make giving up a starter can help us.

 

I think this is a little short sighted. Everyone of those players will be better this year than last year. Uribe has done it before. Pods while not great was an acceptable players for leadooff. Anderson well in case you forgot he was a rookie and will improve. I agree that if improvements can be had at a reasonable price it should be done. However, with the way rhis market is currently going I'm not sure any of that is possible.

 

I would rather trade our starter for pitching help instead of offense. This team can win those players in the lineup if the pitching improves. I'm sure you know the stats of where our offense ranked last year. If we have the same lineup with improved seasons from those 3 and improved pitching we will be in it for the division.

[Balta1701]

I think this is a little short sighted. Everyone of those players will be better this year than last year. Uribe has done it before. Pods while not great was an acceptable players for leadooff. Anderson well in case you forgot he was a rookie and will improve. I agree that if improvements can be had at a reasonable price it should be done. However, with the way rhis market is currently going I'm not sure any of that is possible.

The only one of those 3 I can say with strong confidence should be better in 07 than 06 is Anderson. Uribe, I'm just not sure. He's had multiple chances to finally learn how to get his swing under control, take a few pitches, and become "Better". His 2nd year defensively at SS to my eyes was worse than his first year there, although not by much. He has enormous room for improvement, but thus far I haven't seen anything which will convince me that he actually will improve.

 

Pods last season was certainly not acceptable for leadoff. 40/59 in stolen bases, plus a bundle of pickoffs at first, is simply not acceptable, especially not from a guy who's job it is to steal bases, and especially not from a guy who puts up a .330 OBP. He has room for improvement again, but I can't say with any certainty that he'll be healthier in 2007 than he was in 2006 or that he'll get over any of his other problems.

[Vance Law]

This team will not win the best division in baseball with Uribe, Podsednik, and Anderson in the lineup.

 

They will if the pitching staff gets remotely close to their 2005 numbers. Those 3 dudes in the line-up and get rid of Thome and pick up Carl Everett again, and the Sox still win the division if the pitching staff can do what it did in 2005.

[Dick Allen]

The only one of those 3 I can say with strong confidence should be better in 07 than 06 is Anderson. Uribe, I'm just not sure. He's had multiple chances to finally learn how to get his swing under control, take a few pitches, and become "Better". His 2nd year defensively at SS to my eyes was worse than his first year there, although not by much. He has enormous room for improvement, but thus far I haven't seen anything which will convince me that he actually will improve.

 

Pods last season was certainly not acceptable for leadoff. 40/59 in stolen bases, plus a bundle of pickoffs at first, is simply not acceptable, especially not from a guy who's job it is to steal bases, and especially not from a guy who puts up a .330 OBP. He has room for improvement again, but I can't say with any certainty that he'll be healthier in 2007 than he was in 2006 or that he'll get over any of his other problems.

Uribe is playing for a big contract. He is the poster boy of players who are most likely to have a huge season under this circumstance. He's very talented, and for one season can put it all together and be a fantastic player. The Sox should keep him, and let him walk if he plays his way to huge money.

[Felix]

Uribe is playing for a big contract. He is the poster boy of players who are most likely to have a huge season under this circumstance. He's very talented, and for one season can put it all together and be a fantastic player. The Sox should keep him, and let him walk if he plays his way to huge money.

Adrian Beltre to the rescue!

Edited November 28, 2006 by Felix

[Leonard Zelig]

Is Valido still in our system? Will he ever be a decent major leaguer?

[Rowand44]

Is Valido still in our system? Will he ever be a decent major leaguer?

Yes. I doubt it.

[YASNY]

That's a nice theory but the reality is your leadoff hitter is only guaranteed to leadoff once a game. Pods got way too much credit for his contribution to the 2005 White Sox. He scored a very pedestrian 85 runs. He actually was a better offensive player in 2006 save for the batting average and a few more ks. He drove in more, he scored more, he slugged better, and everyone agrees he wasn't very good in 2006.

 

Yet, a leadoff hitter is gaurenteed to hit in front of the middle of the order 3 to 5 times a game. So, that 'once a game' has a great big hole in it, in my opinion.

 

And tell me, YASNY, what exactly Podsednik sparked? Oh, right, a 9th place (in the AL) offense. I would never, ever want a future Sox to copy ANYTHING from that 2005 offense (except the power. power = goodzzzz).

 

 

 

Because...? 'Cause Ozzie said/thinks so?

Because Ozuna has always been there to do a nice job against left-handed pitchers.

 

Look -- I'm not saying that KW and co. should go about the rest of the offseason with the thinking that, "hey, we already have our leadoff hitter". What I'm saying is that the Sox shouldn't "force" a leadoff hitter on the team just for the hell of it. If it ends up that way, that you come up with a real "leadoff hitter" (one of the slap hitting joys like the one we've had the past two years), then so beit.

 

I'm saying that, if the Sox end up with say, Jose Guillen out in LF, ie a guy who isn't an ideal top-of-the-order hitter, they shouldn't back themselves into a corner and say, "Oh, s***, now we gotta get Furcal or Vizquel or Rollins or else we won't have a real leadoff man!" That's not a smart way to go about things.

 

And before anyone brings up the name, no, Jerry Owens is not a good option. Dude's going to be a 4th OFer... He has absolutely no power, and his OBP is too batting average reliant.

 

I seem to recall that we won an amazing amount of 1 run games in '05. Pods manufacturing runs while building that huge lead in the first half certainly contributed to that. You keep focusing on the 9th place in AL offense and I'll keep focusing on 1st place in the AL Central and a WS Championship.

 

Your "because Ozzie said so" remark does not deserve to be dignified with a reply.

[IlliniKrush]

Yasny,

 

Last year was not 2005. Nor did it involve the 2005 Pods. He didn't spark anything last year, period.

[YASNY]

Yasny,

 

Last year was not 2005. Nor did it involve the 2005 Pods. He didn't spark anything last year, period.

 

I quite aware of that. Thank you.

[beautox]

Uribe is playing for a big contract. He is the poster boy of players who are most likely to have a huge season under this circumstance. He's very talented, and for one season can put it all together and be a fantastic player. The Sox should keep him, and let him walk if he plays his way to huge money.

Uribe has a 5 mil opition for '08 and a 300k buy out.

[whitesoxfan101]

Yet, a leadoff hitter is gaurenteed to hit in front of the middle of the order 3 to 5 times a game. So, that 'once a game' has a great big hole in it, in my opinion.

I seem to recall that we won an amazing amount of 1 run games in '05. Pods manufacturing runs while building that huge lead in the first half certainly contributed to that.

 

Our amazing pitching staff contributed a lot more to it than Pods did, as did Paul Konerko, Tadahito Iguchi, and Jermaine Dye. Even in 2005, Pods was a waste of running with all his steals considering how much he got caught, and his OBP was very pedestrian for a leadoff hitter. Combine that with the fact that he's a journeyman who seems to have forgotten how to run, can't field, and won't hit for any sort of run production....and I say no thanks.

[YASNY]

Our amazing pitching staff contributed a lot more to it than Pods did, as did Paul Konerko, Tadahito Iguchi, and Jermaine Dye. Even in 2005, Pods was a waste of running with all his steals considering how much he got caught, and his OBP was very pedestrian for a leadoff hitter. Combine that with the fact that he's a journeyman who seems to have forgotten how to run, can't field, and won't hit for any sort of run production....and I say no thanks.

 

Since it seems to me that people think I'm blindly pro-Pods, I'm going to repost my original post in this thread for the sake of context.

 

Good thread guys. Lots of quality points made by people on both sides of this issue, but it's an issue that maybe shouldn't have 'sides' because this is not a black or white type thing. There is a lot of gray area here, with a lot of things that have to taken into consideration.

 

First, Pods left a lot, I mean A LOT, to be desired in the lead off spot last year. Yet, we do know what he is capable of from the first half of '05. It was stated earlier that it was obvious he's been injured and/or not totally rehabbed since the middle of '05. I agree with this. Pods in '06 was the same Pods we saw in the latter half of '05.

 

Now, lets take into consideration the recent FA signings for lead off hitters. Pierre and Matthews were both drastically overpaid for what they bring to the table. That tells you two things. Leadoff hitters are hard to find and a valuable asset.

 

Next, let's take a look at some of the names put forth as a possible replacement at the top of the line up. We've had suggestions ranging from AA non-prospects to grizzled old veterans. Of the names thrown out there, I see two that I would consider to have a chance to be a significant upgrade. Crawford and Furcal. Leaving Ichiro out because he's as untouchable as they come. Crawford and Furcal might be pried away from their prospective teams, but either would be a longshot and at what cost talent wise? Figgins? Maybe he's an upgrade, but how much of one? Roberts? He's the last man standing in the free agent leadoff sweepstakes. He's decent, but at his age the only question is 'When will he lose it?' Lofton? That didn't work out so well the last time around. With our current organizational roster, we have two guys that could possibly be decent at leadoff in Pods and Owens. Owens is unknown and Pods is very questionable. Pods does have chance to rebound to the player he was in early '05. He will have had the full offseason to rehab and should come to ST at 100% healthwise.

 

What this all comes down to is that I don't see reasonable alternative when you consider the cost factors and/or risk factors when you look at what is out there. It very well may be our best bet is to gamble on Scott, with Owens as a backup plan.

[witesoxfan]

Even in 2005, Pods was a waste of running with all his steals considering how much he got caught , and his OBP was very pedestrian for a leadoff hitter.

 

In the second half, after his injury.

 

He stole at an 83% clip in the first half, when he could actually run well. He also got on at a .369 clip too.

 

So basically, pretty much what everyone's been saying - Podsednik was valuable and a good ballplayer for the White Sox for a little over half a season in his 2 year tenure...pre-ASB 2005, postseason 2005, and May 2006.

 

(cannot believe I am defending Podsednik)

 

There is a possibility...probably a very good one...that the injury he had in the second half of 2005 has made him into a very bad ballplayer. If he gets completely healthy, he might be able to turn back into a .300/.370 80% SB% type ball player. I don't think it's worth the gamble, but there's a chance at it.