What about bringing back Ray Durham?

[VAfan]

Scrolling through Phil Rogers article today: http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...tesox-headlines -- there was one name that peaked my interest to fill our hole in left field -- Ray Durham.

 

Why not bring Ray back?? Here are his totals hitting in a pitchers park the last 4 seasons:

 

2003 SF 110 410 61 117 30 5 8 33 50 82 7 7 .285 .366 .441 .807

2004 SF 120 471 95 133 28 8 17 65 57 60 10 4 .282 .364 .484 .848

2005 SF 142 497 67 144 33 0 12 62 48 59 6 3 .290 .356 .429 .785

2006 SF 137 498 79 146 30 7 26 93 51 61 7 2 .293 .360 .538 .898

 

Sure, those aren't Manny Ramirez numbers, but they look plenty good from my perspective. And, at 35, it doesn't look like he's into any serious decline. He seemed to miss significant time in 2001 and 2002, but no time the last two years. As a switch hitter, he'd be great slotted #2 in the lineup, with Iguchi moving to the #1 hole.

 

Plus, he kills lefties, which we need desperately. So Mackowiak would be a good match, giving Ray a rest against some right handers. (These are 3-year splits.)

 

vs. Left 348 62 113 25 3 16 56 35 1 32 4 0 .325 .386 .552 .938

vs. Right 1118 179 310 66 12 39 164 121 14 148 19 9 .277 .352 .462 .814

 

As for playing the outfield, I don't see why he'd have any issues. He doesn't have enough range for CF, but I don't see why he couldn't handle LF. Soriano managed the switch pretty well.

 

If there's a better option out there, I'm not committed to this, but so far all we've seen are guys off the market at ridiculous prices (Soriano, Matthews Jr., Pierre, Roberts, etc.), low OPS guys like Chone Figgins, and the prospect of bringing back Scott Podsednik or putting Sweeney, Owens, or Fields out there. Please give me Ray Durham over all of those choices.

Edited November 27, 2006 by VAfan

[RockRaines]

I would rather bat Ray #1 than Gooch.

[Kalapse]

~$8M per over ~3 years

[greasywheels121]

~$8M per over ~3 years

 

WH and I were talking about him yesterday. I'd be happy to see him back, and he's kind of underrated in the league. However, I don't know if I want to see him back at that price.

[SoxFan1]

Baldelli, Crawford, or Figgins please. But, for the right price, I would love to have Ray back. One of my favorite White Sox payers ever and he has still got some left in the tank. It would be fantastic to have Ray Ray back. I know Hawk would love it.

Edited November 27, 2006 by SoxFan1

[striker]

SoxFan1 - I like your Pipe Dream/XBox GM. I could see it happening too.

[SoxFan1]

SoxFan1 - I like your Pipe Dream/XBox GM. I could see it happening too.

It won't happen. But it would be fantastic if it did.

[NorthSideSox72]

If the big name options mentioned elsewhere are unavailable for a decent price, then I think Durham is not a bad idea.

 

But his D in left is probably not spectacular, right? Anyone know off hand?

 

If his D is Pods-like in left, and he brings a .350-ish OBP with some speed, then he's not much different in the end than Ross Gload, who we can get for 350k. But if Durham can play some D, his OBP is more like .360-.370, and if at 35 he can still steal 20 or more a year, then he's probably worth 6M or 7M a year, which might get it done.

[bschmaranz]

If he'd sign a 2 year deal worth around 8-10 million, go for it... If he costs 18-20 million over 2, forget that s***. A 34 year old second baseman converting to the outfield isn't worth nearly that much bread imo.

 

Northside, with the exception of one game (one inning) in CF, he's never played the OF.

Edited November 27, 2006 by bschmaranz

[Pants Rowland]

If he'd sign a 2 year deal worth around 8-10 million, go for it... If he costs 18-20 million over 2, forget that s***. A 34 year old second baseman converting to the outfield isn't worth nearly that much bread imo.

 

Northside, with the exception of one game (one inning) in CF, he's never played the OF.

 

What about that spectacular over-the-shoulder diving catch he made in medium center (running out from 2B, of course) in Game One of the 2000 ALDS against the Ms? That should count for at least another inning or two.

 

I like the idea of Ray Ray back on the South Side.

[NorthSideSox72]

Northside, with the exception of one game (one inning) in CF, he's never played the OF.

In that case, I am skeptical, at that kind of money, when we have cheap, in-house options like Gload, Sweeney and maybe even Owens who might be just as good on D (and in Gload and Sweeney's case, could be just as good at the plate potentially).

[RockRaines]

Gload is as good as Sean Casey who was knobbed constantly during the ALCS and WS.

[VAfan]

Baldelli, Crawford, or Figgins please. But, for the right price, I would love to have Ray back. One of my favorite White Sox payers ever and he has still got some left in the tank. It would be fantastic to have Ray Ray back. I know Hawk would love it.

 

Chone Figgins is not worth squat, IMHO. He did nothing against us in the ALCS in 2005, has a poor OBP, and almost no power. He has speed, but so does Pods. If that's what we want, I'd rather keep Pods.

 

Baldelli. Well, these were his numbers his first two seasons:

 

2003 TB 156 637 89 184 32 8 11 78 30 128 27 10 .289 .326 .416 .742

2004 TB 136 518 79 145 27 3 16 74 30 88 17 4 .280 .326 .436 .762

 

30 walks per year. Last year, in 92 games, he walked 14 times. No thanks.

 

Crawford?? Sure, he'd be a much better answer, but at what price?? McCarthy plus Fields?? Would that even get it done?? Too pricey.

 

I'll take Ray, though $8 million/year for 3 years is steep. Maybe he can be had for less, or for 2 years and an option.

[Hangar18]

A 34 year old second baseman converting to the outfield isn't worth nearly that much bread imo.

 

 

I know a team that paid a 31 year old second baseman, converted him to the outfield, for 8 years $136 Million

[Vance Law]

I know a team that paid a 31 year old second baseman, converted him to the outfield, for 8 years $136 Million

 

 

That 31 year old's main asset in the outfield is his absurd speed which got him 46 stolen bases this year, not 6 like Durham.

[knightni]

Something to be said for those measly 40+ hrs too.

[Chisoxfn]

Chone Figgins is not worth squat, IMHO. He did nothing against us in the ALCS in 2005, has a poor OBP, and almost no power. He has speed, but so does Pods. If that's what we want, I'd rather keep Pods.

 

Baldelli. Well, these were his numbers his first two seasons:

 

2003 TB 156 637 89 184 32 8 11 78 30 128 27 10 .289 .326 .416 .742

2004 TB 136 518 79 145 27 3 16 74 30 88 17 4 .280 .326 .436 .762

 

30 walks per year. Last year, in 92 games, he walked 14 times. No thanks.

 

Crawford?? Sure, he'd be a much better answer, but at what price?? McCarthy plus Fields?? Would that even get it done?? Too pricey.

 

I'll take Ray, though $8 million/year for 3 years is steep. Maybe he can be had for less, or for 2 years and an option.

I'd just like to point out that you obviously have a negative bias against guys like Figgins. For you to even compare Pods and Figgins is ludicrious. Pods is not a speed guy, that was more than proven over the past season and a half by looking at his helpless steal %'s. Figgins is the premiere base stealer in baseball (yes, even more so than Pierre, imo) and he does it all while playing premium defense if you stick him at one position (whether its LF or CF). In addition to that he can also do an above avg job at 2nd, a decent job at SS and an admirable job at 3rd (although his error totals are a bit higher, he's still not brutal by all means, but he's definately no Crede).

 

And this is coming from someone who has watched him play a ton over the past few seasons. If you think Figgins is garbage than I dont' even want to know what Pods is (nuclear waste???).

[Vance Law]

Something to be said for those measly 40+ hrs too.

 

Yes, obviously in regards to the contract.

 

I was referring to his speed mainly in reference to it being a band-aid for his inexperience in the outfield.

[RockRaines]

Per Buster Olney:

 

1. Ray Durham

Had a really strong season at the plate in 2006 (26 homers, 93 RBI, .898 OPS) while hitting in the Giants' spacious park. He's 34, he's played the outfield, and you don't have to pay him Alfonso Soriano money or J.D. Drew money. A potential bargain for a two- or three-year deal.

 

A perfect fit for the Orioles, perhaps, as their left fielder, especially since Baltimore has already given up its draft pick in the second round (for the signing of Chad Bradford). If the O's sign Durham, he costs them, in effect, only a pick after the second round.

 

A thought completely out of the box: Durham, with his 1.063 OPS against left-handed pitchers, could be a sleeper solution for the Yankees at first base.

[HuskyCaucasian]

I loooooooove to watch Ray run.

[iamshack]

I could be wrong, but Baseball Reference tells me he has played 1 game in CF.

 

1

 

I seem to recall him playing some games in right field though?

[redandwhite]

If Ray Durham is going to cost a team $8 million over three years, I would not be opposed to giving Lugo $8 million over four years.

[Kalapse]

I seem to recall him playing some games in right field though?

Nope, according to every online statistical database he's played a grand total of 1 inning in the OF (CF in '05). No other OF experience outside of that.

[VAfan]

I'd just like to point out that you obviously have a negative bias against guys like Figgins. For you to even compare Pods and Figgins is ludicrious. Pods is not a speed guy, that was more than proven over the past season and a half by looking at his helpless steal %'s. Figgins is the premiere base stealer in baseball (yes, even more so than Pierre, imo) and he does it all while playing premium defense if you stick him at one position (whether its LF or CF). In addition to that he can also do an above avg job at 2nd, a decent job at SS and an admirable job at 3rd (although his error totals are a bit higher, he's still not brutal by all means, but he's definately no Crede).

 

And this is coming from someone who has watched him play a ton over the past few seasons. If you think Figgins is garbage than I dont' even want to know what Pods is (nuclear waste???).

 

 

I'll give you that Figgins is better than Juan Pierre, and I'll give you that Figgins is better than Pods (though he wasn't in the 2005 playoffs) b/c his steal rate is better, and he can play a lot more positions with at least passable defense. If we didn't have Rob Mackowiak, frankly, then Figgins would be a nice addition as a utility guy who can play just about everywhere. I'd take him over Mackowiak too.

 

But I don't really like weak hitters who can't compensate with a high OBP. I like Ray Durham b/c he's got real pop in his bat, kills lefties, and strikes out a lot less than Figgins. Ray's RC27 number, which is probably the best single measure of offensive value, was 6.57 last year, ranking him 47th in baseball. Chone Figgins came in more than 1-1/2 runs/game less, at 4.80, ranking him 126th (ahead of Pierre and well ahead of Pods at 4.10). Plus, it only costs money to sign Ray, and he's been on winning Sox teams before. Who knows what the Angels want for Chone Figgins? But why give up talent to get a lesser player??

[chitownsportsfan]

I certainly would not be opposed to Durham, mostly for two reasons:

 

1) He mashes lefties, which will allow Thome and his pathetic hitting against lefties to take more days off at DH

 

2) He's a damn fine hitter. OPS+ of 115, 107, 127 the last three years. He isn't in his prime anymore by any stretch of the imagination but he's a solid bet for a 280/345/480 line next year. That's a major, major upgrade over Pods and it's not a stretch to say he could produce something like a 290/360/510 line, which would make him a real asset in LF.

 

I'd say the Sox come at Durham with a two year incentive laden deal. Give him a base salary in the 4-5 million range and insert clauses where he could earn up to 7-10 million if he reaches certain statistical marks: 550 PA, 20HR, etc. Give a mutual option at around 9 million for 2009 that goes down into the 5-6 million range if the club declines.

 

I'm really in favor of this move.

Edited November 30, 2006 by chitownsportsfan