daa84 Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 theres almost no doubt in my mind that if this trade goes through...theres another deal on the horizon...maybe its buerhle +broadway for arod or mccarthy for crawford....but if this deal happens we still have 6 starting pitchers, and if deal buerhle, we have 5 starters all locked up for 2-3 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 QUOTE(daa84 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 11:47 AM) theres almost no doubt in my mind that if this trade goes through...theres another deal on the horizon...maybe its buerhle +broadway for arod or mccarthy for crawford....but if this deal happens we still have 6 starting pitchers, and if deal buerhle, we have 5 starters all locked up for 2-3 years that brings up and interesting point. Who would we rather deal for Crawford if TB would take either, BMAC or Santana? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnhillegas Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 QUOTE(daa84 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 12:47 PM) theres almost no doubt in my mind that if this trade goes through...theres another deal on the horizon...maybe its buerhle +broadway for arod or mccarthy for crawford....but if this deal happens we still have 6 starting pitchers, and if deal buerhle, we have 5 starters all locked up for 2-3 years ok now, seriously, Arod is not being traded, and if he was going to be traded, it would take a whole hell of a lot more than one year of Buerhle and a 2nd tier pitching prospect with a 90 mph fastball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 11:48 AM) that brings up and interesting point. Who would we rather deal for Crawford if TB would take either, BMAC or Santana? I would rather keep Bmac and Santana, and then move another starting pitcher for the prospects needed to make the Crawford deal. The AL Central, the toughest divison in baseball, is basically a freakin arms race. Whomever has the best pitching wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 11:48 AM) that brings up and interesting point. Who would we rather deal for Crawford if TB would take either, BMAC or Santana? i rather deal mccarthy. santana has way better stuff. i have a feeling bmac is going to give up the long ball way too much. santana to me has a better upside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 11:55 AM) I would rather keep Bmac and Santana, and then move another starting pitcher for the prospects needed to make the Crawford deal. The AL Central, the toughest divison in baseball, is basically a freakin arms race. Whomever has the best pitching wins. The problem with that idea is that the DRays want mlb-ready pitching, not pitching prospects. They have to understand that any chance of them ever competing has to ride on their young pitching overachieving before they become eligible for FA. Undoubtedly, they want another potential frontline starter who has yet to reach arbitration to pair with Kazmir. In my opinion, they would demand Santana, since they have seen more of him, along with other valuable pieces, such as Fields and/or Jenks. It's unfortunate that we dealt Cotts already, because he might have been someone to pair with either Santana or McCarthy who they might have viewed as capable of starting for them. And their is no doubt in my mind, that were we to obtain Santana, their opening offer would demand BOTH Santana and McCarthy for Crawford. There is a reason a deal didn't go down prior to the Gary Matthews signing involving Santana for Crawford; that reason has to be that the DRays wanted significantly more than just Santana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 11:55 AM) I would rather keep Bmac and Santana, and then move another starting pitcher for the prospects needed to make the Crawford deal. The AL Central, the toughest divison in baseball, is basically a freakin arms race. Whomever has the best pitching wins. IMO young pitching would have to be the centerpiece of any Tampa deal. They won't take a veteran pitcher making a ton of money. They would want Bmac or Santana so they could control him for 3-4 years at a reasonable rate. MB, Javy, JG, FG, or the Count would not interest them at all. A 3rd team would have to be added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Watching Crede play in another uniform will probably be very painful. I hated it when Ventura left, that hurt big time. But this will be even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 12:03 PM) IMO young pitching would have to be the centerpiece of any Tampa deal. They won't take a veteran pitcher making a ton of money. They would want Bmac or Santana so they could control him for 3-4 years at a reasonable rate. MB, Javy, JG, FG, or the Count would not interest them at all. A 3rd team would have to be added how about getting baldelli instead of crawford. i rather get him than get crawford for tons more talent. obviously it wouldnt cost as much to get baldelli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 12:03 PM) IMO young pitching would have to be the centerpiece of any Tampa deal. They won't take a veteran pitcher making a ton of money. They would want Bmac or Santana so they could control him for 3-4 years at a reasonable rate. MB, Javy, JG, FG, or the Count would not interest them at all. A 3rd team would have to be added How about this, why in the name of god would we send young cheap pitching with the current climate for a bat. Pitching is much harder to obtain and develop than any player no matter how special. We have had numerous teams that had monster beasts who could kill you 5 ways to sunday with the bat, then we trotted out poop and stink for pitching and watch the twins run off with the division. If we pick up Santana, I am for keeping him. And start to build a top flight rotation. We won in 2005 based on a terrible offense for most of the season, they got hot in the playoffs and all, and lights out pitching and a good pen. Take a look at the teams for the most part that have won it all over the last 6 years. How many of them had a great offense and so so pitching. Keep the arms and build around that. If we wanted the OF strength over pitching we would of never have shipped off Young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Crede has basically been a dissappointment except for the Sept.2005 thru Aug. 2006. He has a great glove and the Sox would be wise not to move him until they have an adequate replacement. Fields does not fall into this category. He didn't hit all that well during his late season call-up and was a strikeout machine until he walked away from Venezuela. Pitching wins and defense helps pitching. I have no problem dealing Crede, he's apt to hit .240 next year. I am concerned about defense though. A butcher at third would really hurt this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 12:19 PM) How about this, why in the name of god would we send young cheap pitching with the current climate for a bat. Pitching is much harder to obtain and develop than any player no matter how special. We have had numerous teams that had monster beasts who could kill you 5 ways to sunday with the bat, then we trotted out poop and stink for pitching and watch the twins run off with the division. If we pick up Santana, I am for keeping him. And start to build a top flight rotation. We won in 2005 based on a terrible offense for most of the season, they got hot in the playoffs and all, and lights out pitching and a good pen. Take a look at the teams for the most part that have won it all over the last 6 years. How many of them had a great offense and so so pitching. Keep the arms and build around that. If we wanted the OF strength over pitching we would of never have shipped off Young. Right, I'm not really weighing in with what I would rather do, but just giving my opinion on what Tampa would probably want in return for Crawford, or realistically, any player on their roster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 murph is gonna have teh angels beat reporter on who apparently also has been hearing rumors of this deal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 QUOTE(daa84 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 12:28 PM) murph is gonna have teh angels beat reporter on who apparently also has been hearing rumors of this deal... Keep us updated por favor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 QUOTE(daa84 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 12:28 PM) murph is gonna have teh angels beat reporter on who apparently also has been hearing rumors of this deal... Could someone please recap when he is finished for those of us at work... Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 After Freddy, Contreras should be dealt next. More talented, yet older than the other SPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 QUOTE(knightni @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 12:33 PM) After Freddy, Contreras should be dealt next. More talented, yet older than the other SPs. I would think Jose would be the last one dealt of any of our starters. I am not sure anyone is very clear on what the market would be for him, and I think his value would be greater to us than it would be to other teams. Probably best to just let him ride out his extension and hope for the best with him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 QUOTE(iamshack @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 01:34 PM) I would think Jose would be the last one dealt of any of our starters. I am not sure anyone is very clear on what the market would be for him, and I think his value would be greater to us than it would be to other teams. Probably best to just let him ride out his extension and hope for the best with him... Says the man with him in his avatar. You don't see me promoting owls, do ya? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 QUOTE(iamshack @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 10:34 AM) I would think Jose would be the last one dealt of any of our starters. I am not sure anyone is very clear on what the market would be for him, and I think his value would be greater to us than it would be to other teams. Probably best to just let him ride out his extension and hope for the best with him... Jose Contreras has a full no-trade clause for 2007. Stop talking about trading Jose Contreras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 01:38 PM) Jose Contreras has a full no-trade clause for 2007. Stop talking about trading Jose Contreras. My bad. But all I know is that when God said "let there be light", he flipped the switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshot7 Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Santana is not worth it. Sometimes the best trade is the one that's not made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 QUOTE(longshot7 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 12:45 PM) Santana is not worth it. Sometimes the best trade is the one that's not made. What exactly is worth it then, if a young hard throwing pitcher that has been considered one of the best pitching prospects in baseball. Take a gander at our system, and then take a gander at the contract status of our starters. How many pitchers will we either have to pay a kings ransom for, or replace. If anyone thinks that Crede is going to give us a hometown discount with Boras as his agent, then I suggest a little less of the hard stuff during the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 12:00 PM) Jose Garland Santana Vazquez McCarthy Along with a nice package from Mark. Works for me. Ill do one better(pure fantasy) Jose Garland Santana (figgins) Reyes (anderson and rasmus come back our way) McCarthy/Pelfrey who needs lhsp? Pelfrey/McCarthy + Broadway + Figgins(2B, Cantu to 1B, Upton to LF) for Crawford Dye + Uribe for Furcal + Broxton + Elbert SS Furcal S LF Crawford L 1B Konerko R DH Thome L 2B Iguchi R C AJP L CF Anderson R RF Sweeney L 3B Fields R Bench: Molina/Piazza, Terrereo, Cintron/Ozuna, Mackowiak, Gload BP: Jenks, MacDougal, Thornton, Broxton, Aardsma, Haeger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 (edited) Question: If acquired, would Ervin Santana instantly become our best starting pitcher? (keyword is best, not most accomplished) I say the answer is yes, which is why this trade is so intriguing. That and Ervin's age and the money it would save us. Edited November 28, 2006 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 10:54 AM) Question: If acquired, would Ervin Santana instantly become our best starting pitcher? (keyword is best, not most accomplished) I say the answer is yes, which is why this trade is so intriguing. That and Ervin's age and the money it would save us. Last year, yes, he would have been, but last year was the worst imaginable year for almost everyone in our rotation. Next year, he could well be the 5th best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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