Sox & Angels Talking; Crede/Garcia for Santana/Figgins

[beautox]

Young Power arm out of the pen.

 

Reminds me of Bobby Jenks a lot. Under our control for 5 seasons, so he's the type of guy the Sox would probably target.

 

hmm, nothing about his stats over at milb.com scream young power arm.

 

100% agree, and have been saying this all off-season.

 

The Sox are build on power, it's really simple. Some don't like the mash offense, but O' well, find a new team.

 

You know what Thome-Kong-Dye are going to do for you. Hit the ball out of the park, drive in runs. Because of that, get as many guys as you can on base.

 

Don't think it gets much more simple than that.

 

[Chisoxfn]

I agree, thats why Anaheim needs to include prospects that will update our sytem. Adenhart may be the best pitcher in A ball, but that is a ways from the bigs. They will be more likely to give him up then a major league ready player in Saunders. A lot of us are down on Tracey, but he is still a decent prospect. The way this deal breaks down for me is that the Sox are dealing one of the best big game pitchers in baseball and the best 3rd basemen in the AL last season for a young pitcher with potential to be very good and a utility player. That does not bring enough back for me regardless of contract length.

I can assure you of one thing. The Angels will not be dealing Adenhart and Santana in the same package, nor would they chose Saunders over Adenhart when it comes to deciding which player they would rather trade.

 

Either way, I wouldn't anticipate any deal that makes sense that would involve either of those two players coming to the Sox. Figgings/Santana for Crede/Garcia plus some combination of prospects makes sense for the most part, but those won't be super upper echelon guys. Like I said, maybe we get Donnelly back as well or something along those lines. Maybe they get a prospect as well.

 

The deal is relatively close to being fair, especially when you factor in all things. Talent wise the Angels may do a bit better, but that doesn't take into account contracts and all that jazz.

 

Maybe we do a Crede/Garcia/One of our better pitching prospects for Figgins/Santana/Aybar, who knows.

[fathom]

100% agree, and have been saying this all off-season.

 

The Sox are build on power, it's really simple. Some don't like the mash offense, but O' well, find a new team.

 

You know what Thome-Kong-Dye are going to do for you. Hit the ball out of the park, drive in runs. Because of that, get as many guys as you can on base.

 

Don't think it gets much more simple than that.

 

That's why many times I feel like Ozzie is the wrong manager for the personnel we have on the team now.

[DBAHO]

hmm, nothing about his stats over at milb.com scream young power arm.

I posted a week or 2 back (and R.Sweeney 8 can verify this), about Masset's Mexican Winter League stats as a closer, and there was an article on the Texas Rangers MLB site outlining his stuff such as a power sinker, and quality curve IIRC.

 

Think he throws in the 95-96MPH range as well.

[Chisoxfn]

That's why many times I feel like Ozzie is the wrong manager for the personnel we have on the team now.

Fact is we have him and if we don't get him a couple speed guys for him to play around with we'll be making a major mistake. You got to give your manager some personsell that matches his desire, imo.

[fathom]

Fact is we have him and if we don't get him a couple speed guys for him to play around with we'll be making a major mistake. You got to give your manager some personsell that matches his desire, imo.

 

I agree...the worst thing is when Ozzie tries to make non-speed players change their game in order to try and be an "Ozzieball" type player. That's one of the main reasons that I actually would have been fine if we brought in Pierre. I love the idea of going all out to try and get a 1-2 of Figgins/Crawford.

[DBAHO]

Jason,on Aybar, how do you think he projects as a future SS at the major league level, and if he was traded for now, could he contribute now at SS, with Uribe sliding over to 3B in 2007 (or vice versa)?

[Chisoxfn]

Jason,on Aybar, how do you think he projects as a future SS at the major league level, and if he was traded for now, could he contribute now at SS, with Uribe sliding over to 3B in 2007 (or vice versa)?

If we trade Crede, Mack and Fields would be getting the Ab's at 3rd. I see absolutely no reason to move Uribe to 3rd, not only would we be hurting our defense but we'd be stunting the development of one of our better prospects.

 

As far as Aybar goes, I haven't seen enough of him to make any definitive statement. I just know what I've read and thats that he's supposed to be pretty good. But I'd like Figgins and than find a way to get someone else. Regardless I think we need a new 1-2 with Iguchi moving down in the lineup and Josh Fields/Mack getting Anderon's Ab's (but from 3rd base).

 

Mack/Sweeney would also backup all the OF spots. Basically you get Figgins for CF, but still find yourself a LF'er (whether thats Guillen or a guy we pick up or Durham...preferably another guy that can give Ozzie more speed to work with).

 

If we do that we should have enough speed so that Ozzie doesn't pigeon hole or force other guys to be non speed guys. Plus I think that would give us a good enough 1-2 to find a way to score when our big bats go silent (one of our major problems last season was our inability to find other ways to score when those bats went south).

[nitetrain8601]

A couple of things:

 

Why do people view Crawford as a leadoff hitter? I thought he did bad there whenever he's had the chance to play there. Also, why do they view him as a CF? He's a nice LF, but I don't think he's a CF unless need be.

 

I love Joe Crede more than anyone, and I've been a big Freddy Garcia fan, but people around here are seriously overrating them. While I do not think that package is enough to net them Joe Crede and Freddy Garcia(both major league veterans who would help the Angels win now), I think it's somewhat close. Throw in a prospect and you have a deal. And no, I don't mean a Saunders, Weaver, or anything crazy like that.

[beautox]

I posted a week or 2 back (and R.Sweeney 8 can verify this), about Masset's Mexican Winter League stats as a closer, and there was an article on the Texas Rangers MLB site outlining his stuff such as a power sinker, and quality curve IIRC.

 

Think he throws in the 95-96MPH range as well.

 

thanks for the insight, appreciate it.

[beck72]

100% agree, and have been saying this all off-season.

 

The Sox are build on power, it's really simple. Some don't like the mash offense, but O' well, find a new team.

 

You know what Thome-Kong-Dye are going to do for you. Hit the ball out of the park, drive in runs. Because of that, get as many guys as you can on base.

 

Don't think it gets much more simple than that.

With Dye likely gone after 07, the sox won't be built on power forever. Esp. with guys like Sweeney, Anderson, Fields coming up--they aren't 30 hr guys. Getting in some speed guys, guys who can get on base and manufacture runs will also be needed when the HR's stop.

 

If the sox load up on pitching, getting consistent hitting would be more important to winning games than relying on the HR's. I'm not just talking about SB's either--more like 1st to 3rd hitting rather than station to station ball.

[beautox]

With Dye likely gone after 07, the sox won't be built on power forever. Esp. with guys like Sweeney, Anderson, Fields coming up--they aren't 30 hr guys. Getting in some speed guys, guys who can get on base and manufacture runs will also be needed when the HR's stop.

 

If the sox load up on pitching, getting consistent hitting would be more important to winning games than relying on the HR's. I'm not just talking about SB's either--more like 1st to 3rd hitting rather than station to station ball.

 

Anderson and Fields both have the potential to hit 30HRs.

 

And our pitching is still realitvly young. Garland and Buehrle are only 27, McCarthy is 23. Vazquez is only 30. our staff is pretty young

Edited November 29, 2006 by beautox

[RockRaines]

Anderson and Fields both have the potential to hit 30HRs.

I dont know about Anderson.

[sircaffey]

Yes, Sweeney,Anderson, Fields aren't power hitters(Although Fields could turn into one) but why should I think the Sox are going to change from a HR team? They have hit 200 HR's 7 years in a row. It's pretty clear what the philosophy of the organization is, and I don't really have a problem with it.

 

Yeah. The ballpark is also a factor there. This isn't a speed park. Plus, a 20 HR hitter is potentially a 30 HR hitter at the Cell.

[beautox]

I dont know about Anderson.

 

Torii Hunter

 

vs.

 

Brian Anderson

 

In 1999 in Torii's rookie season he strugled alot, not nearly as much as Anderson, but no less he struggled, he didn't hit 25+ till age 27. I'm expecting the same out of Brian, now if thats going to be in a white sox uniform is another question. Hunter also has spent all of his career at the Metrodome(#19 in park factor). Brian will hopefully spend most of his career in Chicago(#9 in park factor).

[shawnhillegas]

Why do you refer back to 2005 when you talk about Figgins and Podsednik, what does that have to do with anything? At least compare their stats from last year if you are going to compare stats. We already won our first WS trophy in 89 years with Crede, and it's a virtual certainty that we will not want to resign him at the price he is going to command. Notice I said we will not WANT, not we will not be ABLE to sign him. So, why not trade Crede for value now with 2 years left on his contract, instead of a year from now when most teams will view him as a 1 year rental.

 

 

right on.

[RockRaines]

Torii Hunter

 

vs.

 

Brian Anderson

 

In 1999 in Torii's rookie season he strugled alot, not nearly as much as Anderson, but no less he struggled, he didn't hit 25+ till age 27. I'm expecting the same out of Brian, now if thats going to be in a white sox uniform is another question. Hunter also has spent all of his career at the Metrodome(#19 in park factor). Brian will hopefully spend most of his career in Chicago(#9 in park factor).

Are you saying that Brian Anderson will follow in Tori Hunter's footsteps? that is quite a stretch IMO. I can see Brian breaking 20, but I doubt he will ever hit 30 hr's in more than one season.

[beck72]

Yes, Sweeney,Anderson, Fields aren't power hitters(Although Fields could turn into one) but why should I think the Sox are going to change from a HR team? They have hit 200 HR's 7 years in a row. It's pretty clear what the philosophy of the organization is, and I don't really have a problem with it.

The sox will and should have HR's hitters with the Cell. But the sox have too many low OBP, swing and miss type hitters

[TLAK]

Torii Hunter

 

vs.

 

Brian Anderson

 

In 1999 in Torii's rookie season he strugled alot, not nearly as much as Anderson, but no less he struggled, he didn't hit 25+ till age 27. I'm expecting the same out of Brian, now if thats going to be in a white sox uniform is another question. Hunter also has spent all of his career at the Metrodome(#19 in park factor). Brian will hopefully spend most of his career in Chicago(#9 in park factor).

And the Twins finished in 5th place his first two years.

 

I'm not saying Brian will never make it, but a team going for a ring can't afford to develop players in the big leagues. I advocate bringing in a suitable journeyman who they can rely on next year. If BA plays better than him then great, put him out there. If BA plays like last year then he needs to go to Charlotte and figure out how to play well enough to become a Major Leaguer. In the mean time the White Sox need SOMEBODY who can play major league CF and hit major league pitching at the same time. Mack and BA really hurt the White Sox last season. KW must not allow this to repeat.

[Balta1701]

Are you saying that Brian Anderson will follow in Tori Hunter's footsteps? that is quite a stretch IMO. I can see Brian breaking 20, but I doubt he will ever hit 30 hr's in more than one season.

I doubt the numbers are perfectly comparable because of the leagues people were playing in and so forth, but if you look back at Anderson and Hunter's minor league numbers, Anderson's numbers compare quite favorably all-around.

 

Before hitting the majors and struggling for his first year, the most home runs Hunter ever hit in a minor league season was 10. He never put up an OPS above .800 in the minors. And his career minor league numbers are pretty far below Anderson's, especially when you consider that they sent him back down for a couple months to start the 2000 season after struggling through '99, and he put up a 1.130 OPS for those months.

Minor League Totals - 7 Season(s)

.269 .334 .416 750

Major league totals - 10 season(s)

.269 .323 .463 786

 

Anderson hit 12 home runs in 04 between A and AA for us, and 16 at Charlotte in 05 (along with a couple off of King Felix in the big leagues).

Minor League Totals - 3 Season(s)

.306 .375 .486 861

[TheBigHurt]

I want to see Figgins, but I don't want to see Crede or Freddy go, honestly. I could deal with seeing Freddy go, but frankly, and call me stubborn if you want, I am against any trade that has the name "Crede" strapped to it, and I don't care what anyone says. I'd hope there would be some way to get Figgins without giving up Joe. Maybe trade Freddy and simply put B-Mac in the rotation as apparently is planned.

Edited November 29, 2006 by TheBigHurt

[southsideirish71]

I want to see Figgins, but I don't want to see Crede or Freddy go, honestly. I could deal with seeing Freddy go, but frankly, and call me stubborn if you want, I am against any trade that has the name "Crede" strapped to it, and I don't care what anyone says. I'd hope there would be some way to get Figgins without giving up Joe. Maybe trade Freddy and simply put B-Mac in the rotation as apparently is planned.

 

 

Well with what money praytell are you going to pay Joe when Boras gets him to Free Agency. Take a look at the contracts. Konerko will be asking Joe for a loan when all is said and done. Well that is if he keeps playing like this, if he goes back to being Joe who hits 240 to 250 then pretty much you turned down a top flight pitcher for medicore with good defense, or you get a nice 1st round draft pick from a team that is probably a world series contender so basically all the good stuff is gone.

[TheBigHurt]

Yeah, I know. I realize this. I guess it's just a hard dose of reality trying to set in. I want to see Figgins, but IMO, he's no comparison at all to Crede in terms of value to our club. He's been a key component , and call me pessimistic, but I can't see the Sox doing nearly as well without him.

[southsideirish71]

Yeah, I know. I realize this. I guess it's just a hard dose of reality trying to set in. I want to see Figgins, but IMO, he's no comparison at all to Crede in terms of value to our club. He's been a key component , and call me pessimistic, but I can't see the Sox doing nearly as well without him.

 

 

The sox give fair offers to their players, however guys like Boras always and I mean always go with the highest bidder. So lets just say if Boras was representing Kong last year and we went to FA, Konerko would be having a banner season as Palmero's replacement in Baltimore.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

OK, here's what the Sox do:

 

KW trades Garcia and Crede to the Angels for Figgins and Santana.

 

Then he flips Santana along with Fields and Anderson to the Marlins for Miguel Cabrera.

 

Figgins in Left, Sweeney in Center and Dye in Right along with Cabrera at Third, Uribe at Short, Iguchi at Second and Konerko at First. Pierzynski Catches and Thome at DH. McCarthy moves into the rotation.

 

Sox get faster, younger, cheaper and arguably better.