Sox & Angels Talking; Crede/Garcia for Santana/Figgins

[DBAHO]

Vaz to Texas for Young, Danks.. then Uribe to 3b?

If we trade for Figgins to play CF, then the Garland and Anderson for Danks, Hurley and Masset deal could possibly be back on. But you could also not include BA, and just use Figgins at 3B or LF instead.

 

But if we didn't do that, we'd probably still need upgrades at 3B and LF still.

 

McPherson would be a good guy to buy low on (or even Kotchman).

 

How would people feel about a Santana, Figgins, McPherson and Aybar for Crede and Garcia deal?

Then after you do the deal above, you have 5 starters and some stud SP prospects.

[Balta1701]

if this were to go down...i wouldnt blast it one bit yet.....you have to remember....santana at 350,000 + figgins at 3.5 mil is about 11 mil less than garcias 10 + credes arb (which id think would be roughly 5 mil)....so it all depends on what KW does with that remaining 10 mil......remember KW used 10 million saved from the podsednik/lee trade to sign AJ and iguchi

This offseason? That $10 million buys you, oh, Gil Meche or so.

[RockRaines]

I would LOVE the angels to include Scot Shields in any deal.

[Balta1701]

But if we didn't do that, we'd probably still need upgrades at 3B and LF still.

 

McPherson would be a good guy to buy low on (or even Kotchman).

 

How would people feel about a Santana, Figgins, McPherson and Aybar for Crede and Garcia deal?

Then after you do the deal above, you have 5 starters and some stud SP prospects.

I thought about Kotchman, but at the end of the day, there's really no place at all to play him. Konerko, Gload, Thome, Rogowski all fill those slots from AAA on up. McPherson would actually fit in as a potential Crede replacement if he could ever find his swing and get healthy.

 

I would love a Santana, Figgins, McPherson, and Aybar swap. And it would fit moderately well for both teams, considering that Crede, Wood, and Cabrera would have the left side of the Halos infield anchored.

 

I would LOVE the angels to include Scot Shields in any deal.

I'd love for them to include K-Rod and Vladdy in any deal also, but some things just aren't gonna happen.

[CWSGuy406]

How would people feel about a Santana, Figgins, McPherson and Aybar for Crede and Garcia deal?

Then after you do the deal above, you have 5 starters and some stud SP prospects.

 

LOL -- so the Sox would get six years of Aybar, four-six years of McPherson, four years of Santana, and two-three years of Figgins for one year of Freddy Garcia and two of Joe Crede? Plus ten million dollars of relief?

 

You sure you can't get Jeff Weaver, Brandon Wood, and Howie Kendrick added to that deal? It'd make it more fair.

[jackie hayes]

If we trade for Figgins to play CF, then the Garland and Anderson for Danks, Hurley and Masset deal could possibly be back on. But you could also not include BA, and just use Figgins at 3B or LF instead.

 

But if we didn't do that, we'd probably still need upgrades at 3B and LF still.

 

McPherson would be a good guy to buy low on (or even Kotchman).

 

How would people feel about a Santana, Figgins, McPherson and Aybar for Crede and Garcia deal?

Then after you do the deal above, you have 5 starters and some stud SP prospects.

You're expecting too much in each trade, imho. Both McPherson and Aybar? No way. I doubt you get even one. If you do (get one), you make that trade immediately.

[daa84]

This offseason? That $10 million buys you, oh, Gil Meche or so.

the 10 million doesnt have to be used via free agency...it can be used towards another trade...ie arod or michael young or manny just to throw out some names....but dont discount under the radar FA signings like AJ and iguchi both were.....i know the market is high right now, but there are alot of players who can still be signed "on the cheap" relative to the market that can make an impact

[Balta1701]

the 10 million doesnt have to be used via free agency...it can be used towards another trade...ie arod or michael young or manny just to throw out some names....but dont discount under the radar FA signings like AJ and iguchi both were.....i know the market is high right now, but there are alot of players who can still be signed "on the cheap" relative to the market that can make an impact

AJ and Iguchi were both signed in a totally different market. KW made his biggest moves pre-2005, when the market was still depressed because of the giant contracts handed out a few years beforehand to guys like ARod, Manny, Kaz Matsui, etc. Right now, demand seems so high that it's hard to believe there are real bargains to be found on the FA Market.

[jackie hayes]

LOL -- so the Sox would get six years of Aybar, four-six years of McPherson, four years of Santana, and two-three years of Figgins for one year of Freddy Garcia and two of Joe Crede? Plus ten million dollars of relief?

 

You sure you can't get Jeff Weaver, Brandon Wood, and Howie Kendrick added to that deal? It'd make it more fair.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Remind me not to hire you as my gm.

 

Although KW made that mistake, and he's turned out okay...

[Flash Tizzle]

....and yet you will continue to pout how KW "can't get teams to overpay for one of our starters."

 

Really fair.

It isn't supposed to be fair.

 

We have a surplus of starting pitching -- why shouldn't we expect other ballclubs to overpay? If clubs don't wish to honor our demands, fine -- overpay for Zito or Schmidt.

 

The entire benefit of being in Williams position is knowing you have something with other teams covet.

[DBAHO]

You're expecting too much in each trade, imho. Both McPherson and Aybar? No way. I doubt you get even one. If you do (get one), you make that trade immediately.

It depends how desperate Arte Moreno and Bill Stoneman are to make a deal here.

 

I'd obviously prefer Aybar over McPherson because he could step in for Uribe after next season.

 

Don't forget that the Halos desperately want to win now, and are willing to give up prospects (except for their elite ones like Wood) to do so.

 

Remember that the Angels offered Santana, Aybar and Kotchman just for Miggy Tejada. Crede is a little less valued than Tejada (although he's better defensively) and the Angels are getting a veteran starter in Freddy Garcia who could easily rebound for them.

 

And Figgins value is down from last season after a sub-parish year.

[Chisoxfn]

I'm a big fan of this deal. I hate giving up Joe but we have Fields waiting in the wings (and even though I'm not his biggest fan I could live with him at 3rd, especially with Mack available as a backup).

 

That said straight up we lose on this deal, but I'd imagine the Angels could sweeten things with a 3rd player (possibly a prospect).

 

Santana (long term) >>> Garcia

Crede >>>> Figgins

 

However, Figgins would fit in very nicely atop our order. Plus financially speaking this is a very solid move since Garica and Crede are due major raises (or in Garcia's case will be a FA unless we give him big bucks) while both Santana and Figgins are very affordable for the next couple of years.

[jackie hayes]

It depends how desperate Arte Moreno and Bill Stoneman are to make a deal here.

 

I'd obviously prefer Aybar over McPherson because he could step in for Uribe after next season.

 

Don't forget that the Halos desperately want to win now, and are willing to give up prospects (except for their elite ones like Wood) to do so.

 

Remember that the Angels offered Santana, Aybar and Kotchman just for Miggy Tejada. Crede is a little less valued than Tejada (although he's better defensively) and the Angels are getting a veteran starter in Freddy Garcia who could easily rebound for them.

 

And Figgins value is down from last season after a sub-parish year.

Crede's a lot less valued than Tejada, c'mon...

[iamshack]

However, Figgins would fit in very nicely atop our order. Plus financially speaking this is a very solid move since Garica and Crede are due major raises (or in Garcia's case will be a FA unless we give him big bucks) while both Santana and Figgins are very affordable for the next couple of years.

 

Why is it necessary that we take back Figgins at all? Is it too much of a pipe dream to hope KW is trying to hustle Stoneman for Santana/Shields rather than Santana/Figgins?

[daa84]

AJ and Iguchi were both signed in a totally different market. KW made his biggest moves pre-2005, when the market was still depressed because of the giant contracts handed out a few years beforehand to guys like ARod, Manny, Kaz Matsui, etc. Right now, demand seems so high that it's hard to believe there are real bargains to be found on the FA Market.

i realize it was a different market, but the fact remains that 10 million dollars is still very useful on the free agent market, even if its not as useful as it was 2 years ago.....even if all you can get with it is a gil meche type, tehre still some value in that....maybe the sox could spend only 5 before the trade, and after they could spend 15.......

[Chisoxfn]

The Angels are not going to give up Shields, so you all can get over that idea. Aybar in addition would be a possibility or maybe Kendry Morales (if we were insanely lucky). I could even see McPherson as a possibility, but his trade value isn't that great right now (Aybar is more valuable) even though McPherson is super talented (just super injury prone as well).

[DBAHO]

Crede's a lot less valued than Tejada, c'mon...

Personally I think Tejada is overvalued and Crede is undervalued but that's just me, and I'm sure most baseball people probably wouldn't agree with that sentiment.

 

But Joe will be in line for a Tejada like deal when he hits FA, if he keeps improving offensively.

[Balta1701]

Why is it necessary that we take back Figgins at all? Is it too much of a pipe dream to hope KW is trying to hustle Stoneman for Santana/Shields rather than Santana/Figgins?

No matter how good Scot Shields is...right now, I actually think Chone Figgins would make the White Sox a better team than Shields would. We have 3 solid righties out of the bullpen right now, and probably a long-man in Haeger. Shields is damn good, but only can give you so many innings out of the pen, and would be in there along with MMac and Aardsma competing for innings. And on top of it, Ozzie still uses his bullpen as little as any other manager in baseball. Figgins on the other hand at least is a band-aid over the gaping hole we had defensively in LF last year and hopefully covers up for the caught-stealing machine we had leading off our lineup.

 

The Angels are not going to give up Shields, so you all can get over that idea. Aybar in addition would be a possibility or maybe Kendry Morales (if we were insanely lucky). I could even see McPherson as a possibility, but his trade value isn't that great right now (Aybar is more valuable) even though McPherson is super talented (just super injury prone as well).

The fact that McPherson's trade value is so low right now is the reason I brought his name up. The Angels would have no place to play him with Crede on their team except at DH, the White Sox might have need of a 3rd baseman, the Angels still have Aybar, Brandon Wood, Kendrick, Morales, and Kotchman on the infield on their way up, they really need to dump a couple of those guys for something.

[daa84]

Personally I think Tejada is overvalued and Crede is undervalued but that's just me, and I'm sure most baseball people probably wouldn't agree with that sentiment.

 

But Joe will be in line for a Tejada like deal when he hits FA, if he keeps improving offensively.

credes power last year probably isnt a mirage, he is probably good for 28ish homers for the next few years, and while he did improve his contact, that didnt translate to more walks...his .323 OBP is still pretty bad, and alot of that was average driven.....that said hes still real cheap, and plays great D, but with boras as his agent hell make a ton when he hits free agency, more than we should resign him for...so why not get something for him now, when his stock is probably as high as it will be.

[jackie hayes]

Personally I think Tejada is overvalued and Crede is undervalued but that's just me, and I'm sure most baseball people probably wouldn't agree with that sentiment.

 

But Joe will be in line for a Tejada like deal when he hits FA, if he keeps improving offensively.

Maybe. But mostly because salaries have increased, not because he's valued as highly as Tejada. I love having Joe on the team, but this was the first full season in which he cracked an .800 ops. Tejada does that every year, often pushing .900, and is a ss and .300 hitter to boot. That's a big difference.

[RockRaines]

I

I'd love for them to include K-Rod and Vladdy in any deal also, but some things just aren't gonna happen.

they also arent shopping K-rod and Vlad like they are Shields.

[witesoxfan]

they also arent shopping K-rod and Vlad like they are Shields.

 

The Sox only real need in the pen at this point is a long reliever. That's not Shields.

[Dick Allen]

The Sox only real need in the pen at this point is a long reliever. That's not Shields.

If the Angels made Shields available, I'm sure Kenny and Ozzie would find a place to insert him in a game about 75 times in 2007. He would be the best relief pitcher on the roster, and he has a rubber arm. As far as this deal goes, I think Santana is a stud in the making and Figgins is coming off a down year, but is a better player than he showed in 2006. I still think the Sox could get more. If I'm KW, I'm asking for the moon, and if the Angels don't want to give it to me, someone will eventually. If not, wait until the deadline to deal a starter. Make spring training a 6 man race for 5 jobs and the loser goes to bullpen.

[Jack Parkman]

The Angels have to throw in at least Saunders along with Santana and Figgins.

Crede and Garcia for Santana, Figgins, and Saunders and you've got a deal. The Sox need either Saunders or one of Wood/Aybar/Kendrick to make it a deal. Crede and Garcia for Figgins and Santana Should be a starting point only.

Like Dick Allen said, KW has to ask for the moon, and I think someone will give it to him.

Edited November 28, 2006 by southsida86

[DBAHO]

The Angels have to throw in at least Saunders along with Santana and Figgins.

That's crazy.

 

I'd take Saunders for Garcia straight up, and Santana is definitely more valuable than Garcia right now.

Crede is better than Figgins, but there's no way you're getting 2 very good young pitchers (who you would control for 4-6 seasons) and a potential versatile stud leadoff hitter (if he rebounds), for a veteran SP with 1 year left on his deal, and a 3B with an iffy back.