Sox & Angels Talking; Crede/Garcia for Santana/Figgins

[Gregory Pratt]

Too bad the White Sox weren't as prudent as the Angels and not allowed Freddy to pitch in the WBC. That seems to be what they are blaming his lost velocity on. Will the fastball come back? That is the $40 million question.

Well, Freddy's lost velocity also has to do with the weight he put on, the fact that he'd thrown about 500 innings in the last two years, and the lack of proper conditioning given the lack of 2005-06 offseason.

 

Will his velocity return? I think so. But it's one helluva gamble.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

McCarthy, to my knowledge, is not pitching in the winter leagues. Does that mean he's injured, too?

When has McCarthy battled with tendinitis in the elbow and shoulder? I didn't say Santana is currently injured as well. I was just pointing out his history of problems and procausions the Angels took after you wanted proof his health was reasoned for some concern.

 

Santo, can you find for me Santana's numbers when he pitches on Mondays of months that start with the letter 'J'? I'm just wanting some more obscure and pointless sample sizes to work with here...

I thought my post was clearly tongue in cheek, but if people are going to throw out some of Garcia's starts to try and make a point on how much he sucked, why can't I do the same with Santana?

 

If Santana came to the Sox, those particular ballpark numbers mean much more than a "day of the week" stat.

Edited November 28, 2006 by santo=dorf

[Chisoxfn]

Santo

 

One question...wouldn't the White Sox tell Buehrle no? Yes we would. Any smart team would be very careful with a young arm whose having inning progressions.

 

I know I wouldn't want any of our starters throwing in Winter Ball and I'm pretty convined none of them will be throwing in winterball. Typically the only guys that pitch in winterball are guys that sat out a chunk of the year or that just show up to work on one specific pitch while barely throwing.

 

And I'm very thankful you aren't a Sox scout, considering Santana is widely regarded as one of the best young pitchers in all of baseball. We are talking about a guy with one of the best BAA in all of baseball who has top notch stuff and would be under control for the next few years.

 

When has McCarthy battled with tendinitis in the elbow and shoulder?

I thought my post was clearly tongue in cheek, but if people are going to throw out some of Garcia's starts to try and make a point on how much he sucked, why can't I do the same with Santana?

 

If Santana came to the Sox, those particular ballpark numbers mean much more than a "day of the week" stat.

McCarthy was hurt at one point this year with some shoulder stiffness. Every pitcher suffers it. I'm not saying Santana can't get hurt, but I'm not going to hold a team being careful with him (rightfully so) against him. Nor would I hold some stiffness in 04 against him.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(SABR Sox @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 10:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

24.1 IP's.............

......6 GS. That's Jaret Wright territory.

 

Of course, my post wasn't meant to be taken entirely serious.

 

Jason, the Sox don't need to send Buehrle or any of their veteran pitchers to winterball because they are well established. If I had my choice I would send McCarthy to winterball unless he, the scouts, and Cooper feel he has more than enough time in Spring Training to become a starting pitcher again. I'm not entirely against getting Santana, but I'm sick of people undervaluing Garcia (especially with this market) and thinking Santana is a lock for Cy Young an/or 22 wins(yes people have made these claims.)

 

Honestly, Santana looks like another guy who opens a lot of our eyes because he punks the Sox but has stats that tell another story.

 

What good is a guy if he can only pitch in one stadium in the MLB, and that stadium isn't on the South Side?

What good is a guy if he can't go 4 innings against any of division rivals, including the Royals?

 

I'm not completely writing him off because he has shown some great signs of brillance (usually at home or against the Sox,) and he is cheap and under control until 2012.

Edited November 28, 2006 by santo=dorf

[Dick Allen]

I don't worry about what Santana did outside of Anaheim. Those types of splits change from year to year. Michael Young was used as an example with the conclusion he can't hit outside of Texas, but if you look at his 2005 splits, his home and away numbers are almost identical. Frank Thomas had a tough time hitting homers outside of USCF in recent years. He moved to Oakland and seemed to be able to reach the fences with no problem. Santana is a stud. I think the only reason the Angels would even consider moving him is probably concern about his health. He's been compared to Pedro Martinez. If he's half as good as him, he would look very good in a White Sox uniform.

[fathom]

A big concern for me with Figgins is that he's terrible against LHP. In our division, that's a pretty big issue with any offensive player that we bring in.

[SoxFan1]

Jenks and Danks would be an awesome combo to have simply because of their names.

[DBAHO]

If deal is being discussed it wont happen.

Weren't you the one who was saying we were being left behind this off-season cos we weren't doing anything?

 

A big concern for me with Figgins is that he's terrible against LHP. In our division, that's a pretty big issue with any offensive player that we bring in.

Personally I don't think the hitting against LHP is such a huge issue.

 

In 2005, we were better against LHP than against RHP (which was completely the opposite the next season).

 

Of course it comes down to hitters like A.J improving their splits against LHP's. And I would expect someone like Brian Anderson to majorly improve his production against LHP's if he was kept in our lineup for 2007.

 

EDIT: The space bar on my keyboard at work SUCKS.

[KevHead0881]

Well, I'm guessing this article will eventually have its own thread, but KW all but nixes this deal in the article, so I thought I'd post it here...

 

Sox GM says Crede extension unlikely

Williams blames 'landscape,' says Bonds not in plans

By Dave van Dyck

Tribune staff reporter

 

November 27, 2006, 11:05 PM CST

 

For White Sox fans having visions of Joe Crede at third base forever and for those dreaming of Barry Bonds as the new left fielder, the reality is neither will happen.

 

And for those believing a free-agent signing will help, the news is not encouraging.

 

"Everyone says we need more power, more speed, in the outfield, but no one has any names," White Sox general manager Ken Williams said Monday. "Give me someone who's not asking for a billion dollars."

 

While Bonds will not ask for a billion, he may come relatively cheap to some team wanting him to surpass Hank Aaron's all-time home run record in its uniform.

 

It will not be the black pinstripes of the Sox.

 

"I grew up with Barry [in the Bay Area]," Williams said. "I played against him in high school and we maintain a friendly relationship. He is very nice to my kids.

 

"And I would just as soon keep it that way."

 

The Sox did re-sign first baseman/outfielder Ross Gload to a $625,000, one-year contract Monday. As for Crede, the slugging third baseman who could be lost through free agency if he isn't signed long-term, his days on the South Side seem numbered.

 

"Everybody knows how I feel about Joe Crede," Williams said. "I wish I could have him on the club the next five years. But I do not anticipate any long-term deal there. I don't see that happening under the current landscape."

 

The "landscape" would include the Cubs' re-signing of third baseman Aramis Ramirez for $75 million over five years and the fact that Sox nemesis Scott Boras is Crede's agent.

 

That could make Crede one of the Sox players available for trade, along with young center fielder Brian Anderson and veteran pitchers Mark Buehrle and Freddy Garcia, who are on the final years of contracts.

 

One rumored deal of Crede for Angels outfielder/infielder Chone Figgins was scoffed at by Williams. The Angels would obviously have to add more players to the deal, perhaps starter Ervin Santana. Figgins became expendable after the Angels signed Gary Matthews Jr.

 

"We don't have to make deals for economic or any other reasons," Williams said. "If we can better ourselves long or short term, we will do it. Otherwise, we will sit tight.

 

"There have been a lot of trade talks and proposals bantered about, but nothing has been attractive to us, other than Aardsma."

 

Flame-throwing right-hander David Aardsma was acquired from the Cubs this month for lefty Neal Cotts. More trades between the Sox and Cubs for starting pitching might seem logical, except the Cubs have little to offer in return.

 

"We have to ask ourselves if we are better off [after the trade] or are we better with our current personnel," Williams said. "We don't want to make a deal to make it look like we are doing something."

 

Williams is so low-key about making trades that he will arrive at baseball's annual winter meetings a day and a half after Cubs GM Jim Hendry.

 

"I think people are under the impression we have to move a guy or two," Williams said. "While we see that as the best posturing position for the upcoming year, we're not going to [do that] if it's not best for us."

 

[email protected]

[fathom]

KW doesn't seem thrilled with how things are shaping up right now.

[SkokieSox]

A big concern for me with Figgins is that he's terrible against LHP. In our division, that's a pretty big issue with any offensive player that we bring in.

 

Ozuna can platoon, when facing lefties, adequately.

[fathom]

Ozuna can platoon, when facing lefties, adequately.

 

And that kills our defense.

[jackie hayes]

Well, I'm guessing this article will eventually have its own thread, but KW all but nixes this deal in the article, so I thought I'd post it here...

Not really. There's been talk of a straight-up Crede-for-Figgins deal for a little while, and that's all he nixed. Not that this one will happen, just saying.

[KevHead0881]

KW doesn't seem thrilled with how things are shaping up right now.

 

Yah. Its not a great market for GMs who don't want to hand out s***ty contracts.

 

I don't blame him one bit. And as much as I love Joe Crede, if the market stays the same, I certainly wouldn't give him the contract that he would most likely be looking for.

 

He may be with us through 2007, but I certainly don't see him being our 3B in 2008.

[Rowand44]

Kenny uses the media to position himself in negotiations, take anything Kenny says to the media with a grain of salt.

[SkokieSox]

Yah. Its not a great market for GMs who don't want to hand out s***ty contracts.

 

I don't blame him one bit. And as much as I love Joe Crede, if the market stays the same, I certainly wouldn't give him the contract that he would most likely be looking for.

 

He may be with us through 2007, but I certainly don't see him being our 3B in 2008.

Especially with Fields coming along nicely.

[fathom]

Yah. Its not a great market for GMs who don't want to hand out s***ty contracts.

 

I don't blame him one bit. And as much as I love Joe Crede, if the market stays the same, I certainly wouldn't give him the contract that he would most likely be looking for.

 

He may be with us through 2007, but I certainly don't see him being our 3B in 2008.

 

The market does absolutely suck, but it doesn't mean other AL teams aren't improving themselves. We have a very short window to legitimately compete for the world championship, and so many of the moves that are being proposed make us significantly worse for this upcoming season.

[CWSGuy406]

He may be with us through 2007, but I certainly don't see him being our 3B in 2008.

 

I'm not 100% sure, but I think we control Crede through 2008...?

[Rowand44]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think we control Crede through 2008...?

We do.

[jackie hayes]

We have a very short window to legitimately compete for the world championship, and so many of the moves that are being proposed make us significantly worse for this upcoming season.

Why? If we get good young pitching, there's no reason we can't compete for a long time.

[Rowand44]

We have a very short window to legitimately compete for the world championship

I've heard this line forever now and every year "on paper" we have ourselves a legit shot. As long as Kenny around, we're going to be contenders.

Edited November 28, 2006 by Rowand44

[fathom]

I've heard this line forever now and every year "on paper" we have ourselves a legit shot. As long as Kenny around, we're going to be contenders.

 

Yes, but with the core guys on this team, I feel like the next two years is our shot. After that, there's going to have to be a overhaul/retooling of the core of this team. This offseason might seem dull, but the 2007 offseason is likely to be crazy. The crappy part is that Crede should be the core of the Sox for the next 7 years, but it seems like that might not happen.

Edited November 28, 2006 by fathom

[TitoMB345]

Kenny uses the media to position himself in negotiations, take anything Kenny says to the media with a grain of salt.

QFT.

[knightni]

You sure you can't get Jeff Weaver, Brandon Wood, and Howie Kendrick added to that deal? It'd make it more fair.

 

You mean Jared... right?

[greg775]

It will be a sad day when we trade Joe.

We're going to miss his picks at third base. Hope KW isn't this dumb.