Merkin Article - Ref: McCarthy

[Gregory Pratt]

I just don't think it be that bad for McCarthy to season up in the minors a little more if we can't get something worthwhile for one of our starters and that something has to be starting pitching.

[Balta1701]

I just don't think it be that bad for McCarthy to season up in the minors a little more if we can't get something worthwhile for one of our starters and that something has to be starting pitching.

Brandon McCarthy's arbitration clock has already started.

[sircaffey]

Why not keep all five and put McCarthy into AAA for some seasoning then trade someone at the deadline or, if not, leave them intact if need be?

 

I'm all for dealing a starter for some stud pitchers but if not, I wouldn't be upset if Cy Young spent half a season or another season back in Charlotte.

 

The time is now to trade one or two of our SP. The market can't get any better for them. I think we are going to be pleasantly surprised with what we get.

[Bubba Philips]

Brandon McCarthy's arbitration clock has already started.

Finney

[To LA from Chicago]

As soon as Zito and Schimdt sign, KW's cell phone will be ringing 24/7

 

 

That's for sure. I'm sure he's loving it that he's got what they all need and doesn't have to do a thing. I would LOVE to hear some the trade proposals that will be and that have already been pitched to K-Dub.

 

[Leonard Zelig]

If he was going to spend another year in AAA, it should have been last year. I can't believe that would actually happen.

[shawnhillegas]

Why does he deserve it? Because he had a handful of good-to-great outings for us in late 2005? I don't think that on merits he's especially better than any of our guys.

 

 

You are approaching this like its an even split, but its absolutely not. Its not BMAC in the rotation, or BMAC in AAA. Its BMAC in AAA without trading a SP or its BMAC in the rotation with new assets on the team via the trade.

So.....BMAC in the rotation + return from trading one of the starters > the traded starter.

[Gregory Pratt]

You are approaching this like its an even split, but its absolutely not. Its not BMAC in the rotation, or BMAC in AAA. Its BMAC in AAA without trading a SP or its BMAC in the rotation with new assets on the team via the trade.

So.....BMAC in the rotation + return from trading one of the starters > the traded starter.

 

Err, I said that. I said, if we can get some good youthful pitching in a trade, then do it, but if we can't get something good then keep the five.

[shawnhillegas]

Err, I said that. I said, if we can get some good youthful pitching in a trade, then do it, but if we can't get something good then keep the five.

 

 

i agree.

[Balta1701]

Err, I said that. I said, if we can get some good youthful pitching in a trade, then do it, but if we can't get something good then keep the five.

If all 5 of the starters were signed for 2 years, I'd agree (which is where we were last offseason). But the reality is, we have 2 starting pitchers who will be hitting Free Agency after 2007, and it will cost us more than likely an additional $10-$15 million a year (at current going rates) for 5 years or so to keep both of them around.

 

The fact is, it would be insane of the White Sox to sign both Freddy Garcia and Mark Buehrle to the type of deals they could command on this open market. Which means the White Sox have to face 2 options...try to resign 1 of them and trade the other one (Buehrle being the preferable signing because of simple age constraints and performance) or hold onto them both and almost certainly have one, if not both of them, walk as Free Agents, with the White Sox only receiving draft pick compensation.

 

The latter option makes sense if we are planning to seriously contract salary after 2008 and go into a true rebuilding phase for a couple years, where our outfield is Owens, Anderson, Dye, our infield is Fields, ?, ?, Konerko, and our catcher is ?/Stewart/Molina, and our Rotation is Jose Contreras (for 1 year), Brandon McCarthy, Charlie Haeger, Lance Broadway, and whichever pitcher we can resign. But that's the only way it makes sense to me to hold onto all those guys and risk letting them walk. In 2008/2009, having traded one of our SP's for a bunch of prospects this offseason and signed the other one puts us in a much, much, much better position, given that the talent we could acquire now could be ready in 07/08, and anyone we get with the draft picks won't be ready until several years after that.

 

We have to deal at least 1 SP, because I don't think we can resign them both, and we will be so much better in 2007 and 2008 by making a trade and putting McCarthy in if compared to holding onto both 07 FA's and risking having them walk for draft picks.

[southsideirish71]

Err, I said that. I said, if we can get some good youthful pitching in a trade, then do it, but if we can't get something good then keep the five.

 

Enjoy your useless draft pick compensation then.

[Dick Allen]

If McCarthy is in AAA next season, it would just confirm how much Ozzie and KW screwed up in 2006 and wasted a year of their top pitching prospect's career. Rick Hahn, before McCarthy turned heads in spring training 2005 was mentioning the "king's ransom" Brandon could return the Sox if they wanted to trade him. If he's in AAA in 2007, his career could be off the track. I think its a very slim chance McCarthy isn't in the White Sox rotation. KW has to move at least 1 starter.

[supernuke]

I see a lot of people are talking about draft pick compensation. I thought that with the new CBA there was not going to be any compensation anymore. Can anyone clarify this?

[Balta1701]

I see a lot of people are talking about draft pick compensation. I thought that with the new CBA there was not going to be any compensation anymore. Can anyone clarify this?

That was only a rumor. In fact, they did maintain draft pick compensation for Free Agent losses in the new CBA, although they decreased the value somewhat. Here is a summary of the changes according to Baseball America.

 

"Some changes have been made to the draft-pick compensation afforded teams which lose major league free agents. Type C free agents have been eliminated, while teams that lose Type B free agents, which had previously received a pick from the signing club, will now get a sandwich pick between the first and second rounds ... Those changes go into effect immediately"

 

"The number of players deemed Type A and B has been tweaked as well. Type A free agents, whose former team continues to receive a first- or second-round pick from the signing club as well as an extra pick between the first and second rounds, will be reduced from the 30 percent of players (as determined by a statistical formula) to 20; the Type B band is reduced from 31-50 percent to 21-40."

[hitlesswonder]

Really, given how Ozzie apparently feels about McCarthy:

"Everyone talks about McCarthy. Last year we threw McCarthy, and he wasn't too good either. OK? Check the records. Thank you. Everyone thinks McCarthy is [blank]-damn Cy Young."

 

and his obvious dislike for Anderson, I wonder if the Sox wouldn't be better off trading them both. I know it's foolish to trade young major league pitching, and trading Anderson now would be selling low. But given who the manager is, and his obvious disdain for both players...maybe the Sox would better off doing it. BA, McCarthy, MacDougal, and Broadway might be enough for the DRays to trade Carl Crawford.

 

 

Honestly, given KWs history of making big trades, his repeated public stance that McCarthy is untouchable, I wonder if he's just driving up the price.

[supernuke]

That was only a rumor. In fact, they did maintain draft pick compensation for Free Agent losses in the new CBA, although they decreased the value somewhat. Here is a summary of the changes according to Baseball America.

 

 

Thanks for the info.

[shawnhillegas]

Really, given how Ozzie apparently feels about McCarthy:

and his obvious dislike for Anderson, I wonder if the Sox wouldn't be better off trading them both. I know it's foolish to trade young major league pitching, and trading Anderson now would be selling low. But given who the manager is, and his obvious disdain for both players...maybe the Sox would better off doing it. BA, McCarthy, MacDougal, and Broadway might be enough for the DRays to trade Carl Crawford.

Honestly, given KWs history of making big trades, his repeated public stance that McCarthy is untouchable, I wonder if he's just driving up the price.

 

 

Disdain is a pretty strong word....and that is a lot to give up for Crawford. I know thats probably what it would take to get Crawford, but our bullpen cant start the season with only two established arms and I cant even imagine what our rotation would look like in 2008 if we did that trade and kept Garcia.

 

Vazquez

Count (who may be 45 by 2008)

Garland

Haeger

Heath Phillips? re-sign El Duque? bid 80 million to talk to someone?

no thanks.

Edited December 2, 2006 by shawnhillegas

[southsideirish71]

Really, given how Ozzie apparently feels about McCarthy:

and his obvious dislike for Anderson, I wonder if the Sox wouldn't be better off trading them both. I know it's foolish to trade young major league pitching, and trading Anderson now would be selling low. But given who the manager is, and his obvious disdain for both players...maybe the Sox would better off doing it. BA, McCarthy, MacDougal, and Broadway might be enough for the DRays to trade Carl Crawford.

Honestly, given KWs history of making big trades, his repeated public stance that McCarthy is untouchable, I wonder if he's just driving up the price.

 

So you want to trade young good pitching, so we can get more hitting. Welcome to the 2004-2000 Whitesox. Maybe we can spend 130 million and have medicore pitching and finish 4th.

[Balta1701]

So you want to trade young good pitching, so we can get more hitting. Welcome to the 2004-2000 Whitesox. Maybe we can spend 130 million and have medicore pitching and finish 4th.

Applause.

 

If we're trading talent...get pitching in return. Do not sacrifice young pitching for young hitting. Do the opposite if you want to win.

[ChiSoxLifer]

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article...rtnered=rss_cws

 

After reading the article it seems like B-Mac to Charlotte or back to the Bullpen is a real possibility for 2007:

 

 

Kenny Williams "Yes, we really need to trade one of our starters so we can get Brian into the rotation."

 

 

Baaaaaaad poker face if you ask me. I'm all in!

 

Don't worry, Kenny will get rid of one of the $10 million salaries, get a lot in return, and Brian will be in the starting rotation.

Edited December 2, 2006 by ChiSoxLifer

[knightni]

Brian who?

[dmbjeff]

Makes you wonder sometimes the maybe BMAC should have been starting all last year in a 6 man rotation. Ya know, all of our guys were so tired last year from the '05 playoffs. An extra days rest might have helped.

 

But seriously, BMAC will be in our rotation next year. Theres no doubt. Look at the top free agent pitchers list.

 

1. Zito

2. Schmidt

3. Lilly????

 

are you kidding me....who ever we trade is really "free agent pitcher number 3" and some may say number 2 if you made it garland due to his age and no injuries like schmidt has had.

[TheChrisSamsa]

Makes you wonder sometimes the maybe BMAC should have been starting all last year in a 6 man rotation. Ya know, all of our guys were so tired last year from the '05 playoffs. An extra days rest might have helped.

 

In retrospect, 06 was the year for the 6 man rotation, if ever. Especially looking back on it, and hearing everyone, even subtly mention the issue of the pitching staff being unrested.

 

As for my thoughts on McCarthy, if he's starting in 07, I'm still nervous, because in my opinion, he'll still be a "rookie" starter. The kid is good, but he still hasn't completely won me over just yet.

[DBAHO]

Applause.

 

If we're trading talent...get pitching in return. Do not sacrifice young pitching for young hitting. Do the opposite if you want to win.

 

You cannot stress this message enough. Get good young pitching. Draft it, develop it, trade for it, but whatever way you can, just get it.

 

Because well if you would rather pay around $10M a season for a Gil Meche in FA rather than pay under $500,000 for a Brandon McCarthy (who would be under your control for another 4 to 5 seasons), well I don't know what to think.

[Vance Law]

Translation: Dear team X, your offer still is not good enough. You will have to overpay. Sorry, I don't have to give you any of my 6 starters. Start acting desperate. You will give me the extra prospect and do a little dance for me.

 

 

Well said, screwball. That's what I think, too.