Who needs draft picks?

[santo=dorf]

Orioles declined to offer arbitration to RHP Dustin Hermanson, RHP David Riske, C Sandy Alomar Jr., and RHP Jeff Nelson.

 

Hermanson and Riske are more attractive now that they'll no longer cost draft picks to sign. Riske is one of the better investments about this winter's crop of relievers.

 

David Riske made $1.8 million last season which means at a minimum he would have cost the Sox $1.44 million. With the deals teams are giving, well the Orioles, are giving to relievers, he'll probably be looking for a multi year deal. If Riske accepted arbitration I couldn't imagine him getting more than $3 million for 2007.

 

The guy has had solid numbers pretty much throughout his career, but he had a reputation of being soft and not to be used in close games. With the bullpen in its current state, I have a hard time believing that Riske would be put in a spot where the game was on the line. Ideally I'd use him in the 6th or 7th inning in a game in which one of our starters didn't go long enough, or against a few right handers.

 

As of this moment we don't have anyone in our bullpen making over $1 million for 2007, and yet we can afford to give $2.9 million to Podsednik. What's the harm in offering Riske $2.5 million?

Edited December 2, 2006 by santo=dorf

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

I have to agree with you.

[jackie hayes]

You forgot the "They did f'n WHAT?!!!!!" option.

 

Awful move.

[Flash Tizzle]

Only reason I could possibly imagine (for refusing Riske arbitration) is teams are lukewarm to surrendering a highdraft pick for him.

 

Considering the nature our minor league system, and how Williams yesterday mentioned his desire to rededicate this organization to scouting and player development, it sort of hurts your cause to miss an easy opporunities for a draft pick.

[jackie hayes]

Only reason I could possibly imagine (for refusing Riske arbitration) is teams are lukewarm to surrendering a highdraft pick for him.

 

Considering the nature our minor league system, and how Williams yesterday mentioned his desire to rededicate this organization to scouting and player development, it sort of hurts your cause to miss an easy opporunities for a draft pick.

Still, he goes to arbitration and you trade him for a high-risk A prospect. Even if it's not a high pick, it's something. The only reason to do this is if noone anywhere wants Riske at $3 mil or so. Hard to see that.

[Rowand44]

This I definitely don't understand.

[jackie hayes]

This I definitely don't understand.

No problem, Brian Sabean will explain it to you.

[Gene Honda Civic]

So dumb.

 

I don't see the reasoning when LaTroy Hawkins is getting 3.5M offers.

 

I'm not opposed to the Podsednik signing, as it doesn't mean a whole helluva lot. He might even have more trade value now that he has an actual price tag. BUT, with the two "moves" that we've made today, Williams is looking a lot more like the Todd Ritchie version of himself.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Is it me, or does this offseason really f***in' suck?

[DBAHO]

So say if you're another team and you could sign a similar reliever to Riske, without giving up a draft pick, then well you would probably do that.

 

So the Sox probably figure, if they offered arbitration and no-one wants to give up Riske, then well they have to keep him, because Riske will accept arbitration, and the Sox may have a guy like Charlie Haeger or David Aardsma in mind for Riske's role.

 

Also it wasn't like Riske had a great season, and he's not very good at striking out hitters, and had problems from time to time with walking guys.

 

At least if you're the Orioles, you're trying to sign "quality" relievers, and although I don't like the $$$ and contracts they're giving out, Riske doesn't fall under that category.

[jackie hayes]

So say if you're another team and you could sign a similar reliever to Riske, without giving up a draft pick, then well you would probably do that.

I'd love to see this list of "similar" relievers available who don't lose you picks.

[Gene Honda Civic]

So say if you're another team and you could sign a similar reliever to Riske, without giving up a draft pick, then well you would probably do that.

 

So the Sox probably figure, if they offered arbitration and no-one wants to give up Riske, then well they have to keep him, because Riske will accept arbitration, and the Sox may have a guy like Charlie Haeger or David Aardsma in mind for Riske's role.

 

Also it wasn't like Riske had a great season, and he's not very good at striking out hitters, and had problems from time to time with walking guys.

 

At least if you're the Orioles, you're trying to sign "quality" relievers, and although I don't like the $$$ and contracts they're giving out, Riske doesn't fall under that category.

Riske is better than LaTroy Hawkins who just got $3.5M for a year. I understand what you're saying. Offering Riske arbitration would have limited the suitors at free-agency, but when LaTroy is getting $3.5M/yr, Walker 4/year, and Baez is getting $6/year. Riske will sign for multiple years with somebody for more than the $2.5M he would have gotten at arbitration.

 

The worst thing that happened if Riske accepted arbitration with the Sox was they paid him $1+M to pitch from April-June while one of the guys they wanted to be in the pen was sitting in Charlotte. The reward for paying him $1+M before they trade him possibly would be greater than the draft picks they would have received by offering him arbitration. It's win-win. The only way they lose is by not playing the game. Which apparently is what Williams and Co. chose to do.

 

It's a HUGE mistake, and I don't really see how it can be argued any other way.

[DBAHO]

I'd love to see this list of "similar" relievers available who don't lose you picks.

Ok.

 

Aaron Fultz - LHP from the Phillies. Arbitration declined.

Arthur Rhodes - LHP from the Phillies. Arbitration declined.

Rick White - (yes I know that Rick White, but he had sort of similar numbers to Riske in his Phillies stint). Arbitration declined.

Matt Herges - RHP from the Marlins. Arbitration declined.

Jose Mesa - Arbitration declined from the Rockies.

Mike DeJean - Arbitration declined from the Rockies.

Ray King - Arbitration declined from the Rockies.

LaTroy Hawkins - Arbitration declined from the Orioles.

Steve Kline - Arbitration declined from the Giants.

Eric Gagne - Arbitration declined from the Dodgers.

David Weathers - Arbitration declined from the Reds.

Kent Mercker - Arbitration declined from the Reds.

Rudy Seanez - Arbitration declined from the Padres.

Octavio Dotel - Arbitration declined from the Yankees.

Russ Springer - Arbitration declined from the Astros.

 

All of those guys today weren't offered arbitration by their respective teams, so they won't cost a draft pick to sign.

 

Riske is better than LaTroy Hawkins who just got $3.5M for a year. I understand what you're saying. Offering Riske arbitration would have limited the suitors at free-agency, but when LaTroy is getting $3.5M/yr, Walker 4/year, and Baez is getting $6/year. Riske will sign for multiple years with somebody for more than the $2.5M he would have gotten at arbitration.

 

The worst thing that happened if Riske accepted arbitration with the Sox was they paid him $1+M to pitch from April-June while one of the guys they wanted to be in the pen was sitting in Charlotte. The reward for paying him $1+M before they trade him possibly would be greater than the draft picks they would have received by offering him arbitration. It's win-win. The only way they lose is by not playing the game. Which apparently is what Williams and Co. chose to do.

 

It's a HUGE mistake, and I don't really see how it can be argued any other way.

I suppose the argument with Hawkins is that he has much better stuff than Riske, so the Rockies must obviously think it's in his head and that they can turn him around.

 

Still the O's (probably worst run baseball organization in Baseball today) are stupid not to offer arbitration when he's only a Type B FA.

 

And that's the main issue with offering Riske arbitration. He's a Type A Free Agent, so the team that signs him would have to surrender their 1st round pick to do so. So that basically means that no team is going to do that, when you can go out and sign a Russ Springer (who's better in my mind) to a similar sort of contract without having to give up a draft pick.

 

The Sox obviously thought, they can't have a guy who's going to get over $1M on their roster, if they're not going to use him. And I mean the Sox only used him 6 times from September for a 6.00 ERA so the writing was obviously on the wall in terms of his future here.

[beck72]

Why gamble getting stuck with Riske when the sox obviously don't trust him or want him to pitch for them? There is no guarantee that Riske could net a draft pick. But there would be a very good chance the sox would have Riske on the roster for 2007, by offering arb. and him accepting. Why pay Riske $2.5 mill-to a guy they don't like or want him to get the ball--when they can go with a guy like Aardsma who they believe in?

 

IMO, this is a move a team like the Yanks or Red Sox would make. Cut your losses and don't look back on guys who you believe do not make your team better--even if means taking a risk. And that's not a bad thing. The only risk they took was trading a journeyman AAA Lefty reliever for him.

[SkokieSox]

Ramon Ortiz was not offered arbitration either. Riske may have more value, but Ortiz was a popular name not too long ago.

[nitetrain8601]

Sign Ray King!

[Hatchetman]

KW has been pissing away draft picks for years with similar moves.

[RibbieRubarb]

KW has been pissing away draft picks for years with similar moves.

 

and yet we won a World Series...amazing.

 

I think Billy Beane would give up all those draft picks for one ring, eh?

[Dick Allen]

Riske can't be used when the game is on the line. Cleveland found that out, then Boston, then the White Sox. No team is going to give Riske enough money not to accept arbitration and give up a draft pick. Face it, Riske isn't very good and the White Sox don't want him. Offering him arbitration would almost guarantee they would be stuck with him at a price a lot higher than what a similar replacement, a minimum salary guy would cost. If the Sox wanted him, I'm sure they tried to negotiate a contract to avoid arbitration and the 2 sides obviously couldn't agree.

[That funky motion]

Sign Ray King!

Was thinking the same thing.

[Balance]

I guess the Sox didn't want to risk... er, chance getting stuck with him at a price that they viewed as potentially too high following arbitration.

[elrockinMT]

Why is not offering Riske arbitration a mistake? The guy didn't cut it last year. We can still negitiate with him at a lower price, if they so choose. Offer arbitration nand unless I am wrong you might get stguck with having to keep the fellow right?

[Rowand44]

Riske can't be used when the game is on the line. Cleveland found that out, then Boston, then the White Sox. No team is going to give Riske enough money not to accept arbitration and give up a draft pick. Face it, Riske isn't very good and the White Sox don't want him. Offering him arbitration would almost guarantee they would be stuck with him at a price a lot higher than what a similar replacement, a minimum salary guy would cost. If the Sox wanted him, I'm sure they tried to negotiate a contract to avoid arbitration and the 2 sides obviously couldn't agree.

Well if we indeed would have been stuck with him he would have never had to pitch with the game on the line. He's not a great reliever by any means but having a guy with a high 3's era in the back end of your bullpen isn't exactly the worst thing in the world. This honestly makes no sense to me, we either get picks or get "stuck" with a guy who isn't very bad at all.

Edited December 2, 2006 by Rowand44

[hitlesswonder]

Well if we indeed would have been stuck with him he would have never had to pitch with the game on the line. He's not a great reliever by any means but having a guy with a high 3's era in the back end of your bullpen isn't exactly the worst thing in the world. This honestly makes no sense to me, we either get picks or get "stuck" with a guy who isn't very bad at all.

 

Agree completely -- there's a good chance Aardsma is worse than Riske next year.

[Dick Allen]

Well if we indeed would have been stuck with him he would have never had to pitch with the game on the line. He's not a great reliever by any means but having a guy with a high 3's era in the back end of your bullpen isn't exactly the worst thing in the world. This honestly makes no sense to me, we either get picks or get "stuck" with a guy who isn't very bad at all.

But you could fill that roll with a journeyman or young guy making close to if not minimum. I think a lot of people think Riske is the David Riske of 3 or 4 years ago. Cleveland insisted Boston take him in the Crisp trade. Guys that go to arbitration or get offered it generally get raises, and Riske would be in line for a significant raise, not based on what he is, but based on what he was, and some misleading numbers. KW doesn't want to pay him what the cost would be to keep him and I don't blame him. I think he has his sights set higher. At least I hope he does.