Crede and Other Boras Clients

[BaseballNick]

All of this talk about trading Crede now, while we can still get something for him, angers me as a Sox fan. There were 2.9 million fans who passed through the gates of The Cell last year, leading me to believe there money for Joe somewhere. Setting aside the "Josh Fields Experiment," why can't we sign Crede to an extension? We are no longer in the same class as the A's, Royals, etc. where we monitarily can't keep our developed players and we've proven that by signing Paulie and offering that huge, $70M contract to Magglio in '04. So why is KW still boycotting Boras clients? Boras represents a lot of the top players in the game, so obviously we're denying ourselves of the top tier free agents ever year when we refuse to negotiate with his players. FAs represented by seemingly every agent are being overpaid in today's market, so the argument that his clients are too expensive doesn't work any longer. Can someone please explain why we're giving up on Joe and why we refuse to negotiate with Boras?

[shoota]

All of this talk about trading Crede now, while we can still get something for him, angers me as a Sox fan. There were 2.9 million fans who passed through the gates of The Cell last year, leading me to believe there money for Joe somewhere. Setting aside the "Josh Fields Experiment," why can't we sign Crede to an extension? We are no longer in the same class as the A's, Royals, etc. where we monitarily can't keep our developed players and we've proven that by signing Paulie and offering that huge, $70M contract to Magglio in '04. So why is KW still boycotting Boras clients? Boras represents a lot of the top players in the game, so obviously we're denying ourselves of the top tier free agents ever year when we refuse to negotiate with his players. FAs represented by seemingly every agent are being overpaid in today's market, so the argument that his clients are too expensive doesn't work any longer. Can someone please explain why we're giving up on Joe and why we refuse to negotiate with Boras?

 

I can't answer your question, but agree that it's a problem. I understood KW's past decisions to trade for new talent because his payroll wasn't top-tier, but recent attendance changes should lead to recent GM-philosophy changes. He no longer has to rely on trading prospects and top players off his team as the sole means to acquire new talent.

 

I would understand if Crede weren't resigned after the 2008 season if KW believes payroll would be better spent elsewhere, but I get upset when KW believes he has to dump Crede now when he still has Crede at two more years at a relatively cheap contract.

Edited December 4, 2006 by shoota

[Gregory Pratt]

Crede is not going to be worth the contract he'll eventually get from Boras/Dumb Teams.

 

Your criticism is fair, and notable, IMO, otherwise.

[gosox41]

All of this talk about trading Crede now, while we can still get something for him, angers me as a Sox fan. There were 2.9 million fans who passed through the gates of The Cell last year, leading me to believe there money for Joe somewhere. Setting aside the "Josh Fields Experiment," why can't we sign Crede to an extension? We are no longer in the same class as the A's, Royals, etc. where we monitarily can't keep our developed players and we've proven that by signing Paulie and offering that huge, $70M contract to Magglio in '04. So why is KW still boycotting Boras clients? Boras represents a lot of the top players in the game, so obviously we're denying ourselves of the top tier free agents ever year when we refuse to negotiate with his players. FAs represented by seemingly every agent are being overpaid in today's market, so the argument that his clients are too expensive doesn't work any longer. Can someone please explain why we're giving up on Joe and why we refuse to negotiate with Boras?

 

 

I think they're are a couple of things to consider here:

1. While the Sox did draw 2.9 million last year and will hopefully do the same this year alot of those fans are bandwagon fans. One of the reasons KW has to be careful with how he handles trading one (or hopefully 2) of his starters is because the Sox need a strong base to build off of in 2008. When this team stops winning 90 games and isn't legitimately in contention, attendence will fall to the 2.3-2.5 million range. The Sox aren't a circus like the Cubs where people come for the beer and happen to watch a baseball game. It's an unfortunate reality but it is a reality.

 

Let's say hypothetically Crede gets a 5 year $13 million deal. In 2008 the Sox will have committed $57 mill to PK, Crede, Contreras, Garland & Vazquez. If attendance stays where it's at (or improves slightly) that will posible be 5 players taking up slightly less then 1.2 the teams payroll and some major holes to fill.

 

2. Crede has a bad back and is a higher risk.

 

3. Pitching matters. I'll take a very good starter over Crede if all other variables were equal.

 

4. Boras has offended a lot of teams. It's still no excuse for not dealing with him, but Boras has burned bridges. His way of doing business, while legal, may leave something to be desired. In other words he's slimy and I can see where teams don't want to deal with this guy. Ask Ned Colletti. Boras just pissed off a big market team.

 

 

 

Bob

[Rowand44]

It's about paying players what they're worth. I love Joe Crede but we'll be better off spreading that money around instead of just giving it to Joe and that's most likely what Kenny believes as well.

Edited December 4, 2006 by Rowand44

[maggsmaggs]

Boras forces teams to way over pay for players. Look at Tom Hicks, he paid like $8 million more per year than anyone else was offering A-Rod. He is not perfectly truthful with teams and is just a hassle to deal with. The Sox will tell Crede, guarenteed, "we want you here Joe, so we will offer you a fair deal that will support you the rest of your life. But we will make this one and only offer, if you accept, we are glad you chose to be a White Sox, but if you don't, we will trade you." They did it with Garland and they will with Joe, they will force Joe to act on his own will, not Bora$$.

[greg775]

Good thread. Why can't we sign him? We got it done with Paulie.

[Rowand44]

Good thread. Why can't we sign him? We got it done with Paulie.

Pauly's agent wasn't Scott Boras and Crede is actually going to get more money than Paul.

Edited December 4, 2006 by Rowand44

[Kalapse]

Good thread. Why can't we sign him? We got it done with Paulie.

Konerko ended up signing for below market value (atleast after this free agency period), the Sox were able to work out a deal with Konerko's reasonable agents which was fair for both sides and offered very nice compensation for the player. Joe Crede on the other hand will be recieving a deal WELL over market value and for more years than should be handed out for a player with his injury concerns. I'm still convinced that Boras wants Joe to go to free agency no matter what and most likely wouldn't be all that interested in working out a long term deal with the Sox unless they're really willing to overpay.

 

Boras' #1 goal as an agent is to make his clients as much money as possible and the best way to do that is to get his guys out on the open market and get 4-6 teams bidding for his clients services. You don't often make the real big bucks by negotiating out contract extensions with the player's original team before they're able to hit free agency, there's no competition involved and thus the overall payout of the contract is usually much lower.

 

That's why Boras is the best, he's knows exactly how to work the system for his clients inorder to make the most green possible. Joe Crede will not be an exception, otherwise he would never have hired Boras in the firstplace.

 

Pauly's agent wasn't Scott Boras and Crede is actually going to get more money than Paul.

More money and more importantly more years. I'm thinking 6 gauranteed with 1 or 2 option years, with vesting clauses included.

[southsider2k5]

Why is he unsignable? Because Borass refuses to sign away a player long term before he reaches the free agent market. It's quite simple actually. We could put a huge long term deal on the table tommorrow, at current market prices, and he would laugh in our faces, and then use that deal to start negotiations with other teams in two years.

[retro1983hat]

I love Crede and would love to have him as the third baseman for the rest of the decade, but with his back issues, he might be at his peak right now. Trade value may never be higher.

[Bubba Philips]

I love Crede and would love to have him as the third baseman for the rest of the decade, but with his back issues, he might be at his peak right now. Trade value may never be higher.

Crede is under our control for the next 2 seasons. We could give him arbitration this year instead why not give him a 2 year deal with an option for year 3 and a buyout.. Year 3 he'd be a free agent anyway. We could walk away after a buyout in year 3 if Joe's back is still a problem.. I don't know how his back condition would get better. It is well published about his back; his has to be a concern of other teams who would like to have his services.

[joeynach]

The answer is quite simple. Boras always way overvalues his clients value, and to a smart non desperate GM his players just aren't worth the money or years he demands. Kw is smart and knows there is a difference between spending money and spending money wisely. The problem with Boras is there is always some GM with the money looking to make a splash looking to hand out some big bucks for a big name alone. Most if not all of Boras clients just really aren't worth their demands including crede. If crede demands Aramis Ramirez type money forget about it. Joe is not worth anything near 5 Years 70 Mil. Hes got a good glove but no where near the consistent offensive prowess as a hitter like Ramirez. Crede on the open market putting up something like .280/25/90 consistently is not worth anything near what Ramirez got.

[WCSox]

Konerko ended up signing for below market value (atleast after this free agency period), the Sox were able to work out a deal with Konerko's reasonable agents which was fair for both sides and offered very nice compensation for the player. Joe Crede on the other hand will be recieving a deal WELL over market value and for more years than should be handed out for a player with his injury concerns. I'm still convinced that Boras wants Joe to go to free agency no matter what and most likely wouldn't be all that interested in working out a long term deal with the Sox unless they're really willing to overpay.

 

Boras' #1 goal as an agent is to make his clients as much money as possible and the best way to do that is to get his guys out on the open market and get 4-6 teams bidding for his clients services. You don't often make the real big bucks by negotiating out contract extensions with the player's original team before they're able to hit free agency, there's no competition involved and thus the overall payout of the contract is usually much lower.

 

That's why Boras is the best, he's knows exactly how to work the system for his clients inorder to make the most green possible. Joe Crede will not be an exception, otherwise he would never have hired Boras in the firstplace.

More money and more importantly more years. I'm thinking 6 gauranteed with 1 or 2 option years, with vesting clauses included.

 

+1

 

Players who have Boras represent them know exactly what they're getting into. If WE know that JR won't deal with Boras, Crede surely knows that as well, but apparently doesn't care. I'm not saying that he's greedy or a bad guy or anything, but getting as much guaranteed money as possible is clearly Crede's priority (and I don't blame him, especially with his bad back).

 

Whatever happens, I'll be forever in debt to Joe for what he did down the stretch in '05. But I don't want the Sox to over-pay for him at the expense of the rest of the team.

[YASNY]

If I remember correctly, the Sox do have someone specified within the front office to negotiate with Boras. So, this "the Sox won't deal with Boras" stuff is no longer true.

[SoxHawk1980]

Players who have Boras represent them know exactly what they're getting into. If WE know that JR won't deal with Boras, Crede surely knows that as well, but apparently doesn't care. I'm not saying that he's greedy or a bad guy or anything, but getting as much guaranteed money as possible is clearly Crede's priority (and I don't blame him, especially with his bad back).

Great point. I don't like Boras, but you can't blame or hate him without blaming or hating his clients. Agents don't own their clients. Agents don't make their clients do anything. Boras plays hardball to get the most money/years for his clients because his clients' #1 priority is maximizing money/years in their contracts.

[SnB]

I had a dream that joe crede was traded to the tigers.

 

true story.