Winter Meetings Thread

[DBAHO]

B-Mac showed me in my mind in that last start of the season he had, what he was capable of if the Sox made him a full time starter in 2006. And I know people will argue well that's a small sample size etc. and he sucked in the pen, but you have to consider the other factors that made him put up those type of numbers.

 

Don't forget those great numbers he put up in the 2nd half of 2005 either as a starting pitcher.

 

And like I always say, I'll take my chances of great young pitching over great young hitting.

[jphat007]

How many people have wondered what will happen if BMAC totally bombs as a full time starter.

 

All the time. Well, not really, but yes I certainly wonder. He was awful last year.

[Dick Allen]

There's a reason why McCarthy is the White Sox most popular pitcher with other teams, and its not just that he doesn't get paid as much. As long as the others would fetch more than they are worth, keep the young, cheap one. Some of the numbers he would be replacing look very replaceable.

[RockRaines]

I think BMAC will be a good pitcher, I really do. But his stuff makes me nervous sometimes.

[Gregory Pratt]

I've always said that I expect him to be out of baseball in a handful of years with injuries from his mechanics and I've also been very critical of his stuff. A 91 MPH fastball with no movement, an okay curveball and a changeup that he doesn't always has a feel for?

 

Also: I expect him to give up a s***load of homeruns. Straight fastballs at modest heat? Mmhmm.

[hitlesswonder]

That's why I am an advocate for trading him for a potential Hall of Famer in Carl Crawford now, while he still has top value. As much as I liked McCarthy in 2005, he showed me nothing last season. Don't forget this...Ozzie isn't comfortable with McCarthy. Even if he starts for us in 2007, he'll have the tightest leash in history.

 

I agree. Ozzie dislikes McCarthy almost as much as Anderson, McCarthy's been a HR machine in the bigs, and no one knows if he can even post 5 ERA in a full season. Scott Baker of the Twins was regarded as being the same caliber of prospect as McCarthy and he bombed last season. Felix Hernandez struggled, and McCarthy isn't in the same league as him. If the Sox could get Crawford for McCarthy, a relief pitcher(MacDougal or Jenks I guess), and Brian Anderson they should do it.

Edited December 4, 2006 by hitlesswonder

[WCSox]

And like I always say, I'll take my chances of great young pitching over great young hitting.

 

+1

 

As mediocre/bad as Pods is in the leadoff spot, the Sox are in need of starting pitching. Crawford is a luxury, not a necessity.

[RockRaines]

Rob Neyer

 

 

Speaking of the American League Central, it's been said more than a few times that White Sox GM Kenny Williams, flush with starting pitchers, might have more leverage this week than any other general manager. I would agree with that particularly if Williams and his colleagues have some realistic notion of Charlie Haeger's value. I've been promoting this guy since last spring, and I'm going to keep promoting him until he gets the chance he obviously deserves. Nutshell: Haeger looks to me like the best young knuckleball pitcher any of us have seen. He's 23 years old. Over the last two seasons, his ERAs ranging from Class A to MLB: 3.20, 3.78, 3.07 and 3.44. If he threw 90 miles an hour rather than 70, he would be considered one of the dozen or so best pitching prospects in the game. Did I mention that he's 23? And that most knuckleballers don't gain control of their key pitch until their middle or late 20s? If I were Kenny Williams, I would trade one of the guys who throws 90 -- because they have more trade value than the guy who throws 70 -- and give Haeger a slot in the rotation next spring. If I were not Kenny Williams, I would sidle up to him in Florida and try to find out exactly what he thinks about Charlie Haeger.

[jackie hayes]

How many people have wondered what will happen if BMAC totally bombs as a full time starter.

I have. I think I'd be very, very surprised. But I think that, as much as everyone hates (HATES) knucklers, Haeger would be acceptable as a 5th starter, and there's some chance Broadway would be ready by mid-2007.

 

I also wonder what would happen if Buehrle's career path continues to resemble Mulder's, or if Garcia's velocity never recovers, or if Garland again forgets that a sinkerballer should throw down in the zone, or if MacDougal gets hurt yet again, or if Thornton remembers why he only was worth Joe B, or if Jenks loses the strike zone for two weeks instead of one, or if Vazquez...well, better not to think about that.

 

Anything's possible.

[jphat007]

I've always said that I expect him to be out of baseball in a handful of years with injuries from his mechanics and I've also been very critical of his stuff. A 91 MPH fastball with no movement, an okay curveball and a changeup that he doesn't always has a feel for?

 

Also: I expect him to give up a s***load of homeruns. Straight fastballs at modest heat? Mmhmm.

 

He gave up 3 less HR than Jose in 113 less innings. At least thats what I posted earlier this offseason. That's scary. He had the worst per inning numbers of any of the six starters. I guess we can just hope and pray it was a bullpen thing. I'm not totally convinced.

[DBAHO]

B-Mac had a major problem giving up the longball when he 1st came up.

 

I'm not looking at the stats since then, but when he was majorly successful as a starter in post ASB 2005, I believe that number of HR's he gave up went down.

 

Not sure what it was as a reliever though in 2006.

[southsideirish71]

I think BMAC will be a good pitcher, I really do. But his stuff makes me nervous sometimes.

 

Rock he is the first prospect that has shown flashes of brilliance in a long time from the pitching prospect level. We need to save some money somewhere on this team so we can spend it in other places. His performance last year against Cleveland, his back to back starts against the Redsox and the Rangers in 05, and his start at home in 05 against the twins where he pitched his ass off against either Santana or Liriano and shut the twinks down.

 

For Bmac he will be as good as his location is on his change. If his change is working then he can dominate. If he cant locate the change then he is meat.

[Kalapse]

I've always said that I expect him to be out of baseball in a handful of years with injuries from his mechanics and I've also been very critical of his stuff. A 91 MPH fastball with no movement, an okay curveball and a changeup that he doesn't always has a feel for?

 

Also: I expect him to give up a s***load of homeruns. Straight fastballs at modest heat? Mmhmm.

Well he was throwing 93-94 last year and I'm not sure what you expect from a 21-22 year old but they don't always have a great feel for all their pitches, it takes major league experience for them to gain confidence in all their pitches especially something like a change. And for a guy with ok mechanics (they're certainly not horrible) he's never really had any injury concerns over the course of his playing career. A little added bulk and some work with a good pitching coach and he should add a few miles per hour onto that fastball and avoid any strain on his arm that his violent arm motion causes.

[iamshack]

+1

 

As mediocre/bad as Pods is in the leadoff spot, the Sox are in need of starting pitching. Crawford is a luxury, not a necessity.

 

Well, the one thing about young hitting is it tends to be more consistent than young pitching, and hitting as a whole tends to be more consistent from year to year than pitching. I like having the young pitching because of the price, but as we all saw last year, you never quite know what you are getting for sure from your pitching staff.

 

I think the main consideration here is we know what we would get from Crawford, whereas we can't be certain what we'll get from McCarthy.

[southsideirish71]

Well, the one thing about young hitting is it tends to be more consistent than young pitching, and hitting as a whole tends to be more consistent from year to year than pitching. I like having the young pitching because of the price, but as we all saw last year, you never quite know what you are getting for sure from your pitching staff.

 

I think the main consideration here is we know what we would get from Crawford, whereas we can't be certain what we'll get from McCarthy.

 

 

So after we get more offense, can we get Felix Diaz back so he can pitch out of our rotation. Everyone preaches how pitching won in 2005, then the minute we can get another offensive player we all go ga ga for it. We had Valentin, Carlos Lee, Maggs, Thomas, Konerko and couldnt finish first for the most part in our own division which was piss poor up until recently. Those teams looked like world beaters on paper, then the twins pitched us into the dirt.

[DBAHO]

Well, the one thing about young hitting is it tends to be more consistent than young pitching, and hitting as a whole tends to be more consistent from year to year than pitching. I like having the young pitching because of the price, but as we all saw last year, you never quite know what you are getting for sure from your pitching staff.

 

I think the main consideration here is we know what we would get from Crawford, whereas we can't be certain what we'll get from McCarthy.

Wasn't the case with Brian Anderson this season.

 

Young hitting takes time to adjust and produce at the major league level, unless you're an Albert Pujols or Miggy Cabrera.

 

With young pitching, if it'sgood enough, then yeah it can be successful sooner IMHO.

[rcpweiner]

From Baseball Prospectus' new "Unfiltered" regularly updated blog-esque feature:

 

White Sox in position of strength

 

Posted by Nate Silver @ December 4, 2006, 01:44 AM

 

The White Sox have been one of the quieter teams thus far this winter. But you have to think that the dynamics of the market play perfectly into their hands — and that Kenny Williams could emerge as the star of this week’s action in Orlando.

 

If there’s one thing that Williams has a knack for, it’s timing the market. Virtually all of his moves, from trading for David Wells to the late snagging of Tadahito Iguchi and A.J. Pierzynski a couple of winters ago — came as surprises to most observers. Some of these moves turned out better than in others, but in each case Williams was working on his own terms.

 

That characteristic could become very powerful when coupled with another strength of the White Sox — they have the luxury of standing pat. If the White Sox went into 2007 without making any significant changes to their roster, they’d have a team that would be plenty capable of contending for a playoff spot, with a little bit of flexibility to boot in allowing Josh Fields, Ryan Sweeney, and Brandon McCarthy to compete for starting jobs. In that vein, I don’t mind their re-signing Scott Podesdnik, who didn’t cost them too much, and has his uses as a 300 PA guy.

 

Now, I’m not suggesting that the White Sox should stand pat. On the contrary, they’re one of the few teams that has the capability of improving themselves without having to overpay to do so. And Williams’ history suggests that he’ll take advantage of this opportunity. I’m thinking big here — bigger than the Joe Crede-Chone Figgins rumors that have been batted about so far. I’m thinking that the White Sox could emerge as the surprise winners of the Manny Ramirez derby. I’m thinking that Pat Burrell or Adam Dunn could wind up as their left fielder. I’m even thinking that they could sweep in and sign Barry Bonds; Williams has denied interest, but the same was true of Pierzynski two years ago, and that’s turned out very well for him.

 

It might not happen in Orlando. It might not happen until February or March. But I’d be surprised if the White Sox don’t create some of the biggest headlines of the winter.

[WCSox]

So after we get more offense, can we get Felix Diaz back so he can pitch out of our rotation. Everyone preaches how pitching won in 2005, then the minute we can get another offensive player we all go ga ga for it. We had Valentin, Carlos Lee, Maggs, Thomas, Konerko and couldnt finish first for the most part in our own division which was piss poor up until recently. Those teams looked like world beaters on paper, then the twins pitched us into the dirt.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Any Sox fan who witnessed the Jerry Manuel era (and even this past season) could tell you that a lineup of mashers with average or below-average starting pitching isn't going to translate into playoff succes.

 

Crawford on the South Side would be great, but not at the expense of B-Mac.

[fathom]

Am I the only one who would love it if we signed Bonds? Considering some of the other ex-juicers that people want us to trade for, I don't see why so many are upset about his 'roid use. I know it won't happen though, but it's fun to even see it rumored.

[jackie hayes]

Considering some of the other ex-juicers that people want us to trade for...

 

Who?

[T R U]

Am I the only one who would love it if we signed Bonds? Considering some of the other ex-juicers that people want us to trade for, I don't see why so many are upset about his 'roid use. I know it won't happen though, but it's fun to even see it rumored.

 

If we signed Bonds I would buy an authentic Bonds Sox jersey immediately.. I would LOVE to have Bonds in LF for us next year

[ptatc]

Am I the only one who would love it if we signed Bonds? Considering some of the other ex-juicers that people want us to trade for, I don't see why so many are upset about his 'roid use. I know it won't happen though, but it's fun to even see it rumored.

 

Yes, you are the only one. He ranks up there with Sheffield as asses for all time. His production is not worth the is not worth it..

[jackie hayes]

If we signed Bonds I would buy an authentic Bonds Sox jersey immediately.. I would LOVE to have Bonds in LF for us next year

Yeah, well, you are so supportive of the roiders, you'd probably buy a Brady Anderson jersey if we signed him.

[Jenksismyhero]

Am I the only one who would love it if we signed Bonds? Considering some of the other ex-juicers that people want us to trade for, I don't see why so many are upset about his 'roid use. I know it won't happen though, but it's fun to even see it rumored.

 

If the White Sox sign Barry Bonds I will become a Cubs fan. No lie, no joke, I will jump ship faster than anyone in Chicago.

 

That's how much I despise that piece of sh*t.

[jackie hayes]

If the White Sox sign Barry Bonds I will become a Cubs fan. No lie, no joke, I will jump ship faster than anyone in Chicago.

 

That's how much I despise that piece of sh*t.

Ya f'n Royko.

 

(Sorry, Mike, I love ya, despite your big failing.)

 

Nothing's worth that. Brewers, Cards, okay. But don't even think those thoughts.