Winter Meetings Thread

[hitlesswonder]

Reading about these rumored deals is making me think we are just begging people to take one of our starters. There is no gain for the Sox. What are we thinking? We have damaged goods?

 

I think Milledge and Pelfrey would be a great deal if Williams could pull it off -- you're talking about getting the Mets equivalent of McCarthy and Chris Young for one year of a starter who had a 5 ERA last season(Buehrle). That package is more than what the Diamondbacks got for Vazquez and Javy had 2 years left on his contract. In fact, I doubt the Mets will move Pelfrey, since they are still stung by the decision to trade Kazmir and Pelfrey is probably one of the top 5 starting pitching prospects in baseball.

 

I agree that Williams should hold out to get the best possible deal (considering the state of the farm system). But if people think Milledge and Pelfrey wouldn't be enough for Freddy or Mark, I have a feeling they are going to be disappointed in whatever trade KW finally makes.

[Chisoxfn]

Am I the only one who would love it if we signed Bonds? Considering some of the other ex-juicers that people want us to trade for, I don't see why so many are upset about his 'roid use. I know it won't happen though, but it's fun to even see it rumored.

Are you kidding, that would be absolutely fantastic.

[iamshack]

I think Milledge and Pelfrey would be a great deal if Williams could pull it off -- you're talking about getting the Mets equivalent of McCarthy and Chris Young for one year of a starter who had a 5 ERA last season(Buehrle). That package is more than what the Diamondbacks got for Vazquez and Javy had 2 years left on his contract. In fact, I doubt the Mets will move Pelfrey, since they are still stung by the decision to trade Kazmir and Pelfrey is probably one of the top 5 starting pitching prospects in baseball.

 

I agree that Williams should hold out to get the best possible deal (considering the state of the farm system). But if people think Milledge and Pelfrey wouldn't be enough for Freddy or Mark, I have a feeling they are going to be disappointed in whatever trade KW finally makes.

 

Agreed.

 

I love the idea of getting optimal value. But KW doesn't need to do what Jim Bowden did with Sori at the deadline last July.

[Chisoxfn]

I don't know if this has already been posted, my apologies if it has.

 

It's a Scott Merkin article about a rumored Mark for Milledge deal.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article...rtnered=rss_mlb

 

One of the newest rumors making its way around the Swan and Dolphin Resort on Monday involved the movement of White Sox southpaw Mark Buehrle via trade to the Mets in return for outfielder Lastings Milledge.

If we resign Freddy, I think we could make a move that allows the club to get Pelfrey and Milledge plus one of Humber/Heilman. Buehrle does have that much more value than Freddy/Javier if you ask me and we shouldn't ask for anything less.

 

There is not a chance in hell Minyana would do that deal, but were he to, I would take it and run as fast as I could- even if we had already traded Freddy to another team.

Remember what he gave up for Bartolo Colon? Now he actually has a team with the resources to trade for an ace and sign that ace to a long term contract (Buehrle or Garcia).

[Balta1701]

If we resign Freddy, I think we could make a move that allows the club to get Pelfrey and Milledge plus one of Humber/Heilman. Buehrle does have that much more value than Freddy/Javier if you ask me and we shouldn't ask for anything less.

Remember what he gave up for Bartolo Colon? Now he actually has a team with the resources to trade for an ace and sign that ace to a long term contract (Buehrle or Garcia).

If we're giving up Buehrle, I want both Pelfrey and Milledge back.

[klaus kinski]

That reminds me of Danny Noonan and DeNunzio in Caddyshack. "I ain't payin' no fifty cents for no Coke."

"Then you ain't gettin' no Coke, eh."

 

Well, it seems that Minyana would rather offer Zito the $ than trade his top 3 prospects for Mark, so maybe that is what happened.

 

As for ARod, I doubt that he would block a trade here. This is the PERFECT place for him to play, second only to maybe LAA. If you think what Ozzie said about him really bothers him, remember what the Yankee fans and the NY media did to him the final 3 months or so of the season...

 

Even if they sign Zito, the Mets need a #2 starter-thats where we come in. It would just not be Buehrle

[Chisoxfn]

If we're giving up Buehrle, I want both Pelfrey and Milledge back.

Thats what I said...in addition to getting one of Heilman/Humber. If that doesn't work than they can go walk.

[iamshack]

Remember what he gave up for Bartolo Colon? Now he actually has a team with the resources to trade for an ace and sign that ace to a long term contract (Buehrle or Garcia).

 

Yes, I remember: Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips.

 

However, you can't compare the two situations. That was when he was in Montreal, where he had no payroll to sign FA's with. The only chance of getting impact players was through trades, and he consistently raped that farm system in order to do so. Simply because he got desperate then does not mean he will do that now.

 

Currently, he has at his disposal one of the largest piggybanks in baseball to utilize, and he will undoubtedly empty that out, rather than the Mets system. Trading one of those guys for Mark, sure. Trading two of them for Mark, probably not. Trading all three for Mark, not a chance. This isn't Montreal anymore.

[iamshack]

Just a snippet from Rob Neyer's ESPN chat:

 

Del (Chicago): How much of a bargain is Mark Buehrle at one year, $9.5 million? Do the White Sox trade him now while he's still a bargain?

 

Rob Neyer: (12:32 PM ET ) If I were Kenny Williams, I'd trade whichever of my starters has the most value. He's essentially got seven good candidates for the rotation, and has a real chance this winter to make his team the No. 1 contender in the division.

[RockRaines]

I think Milledge and Pelfrey would be a great deal if Williams could pull it off -- you're talking about getting the Mets equivalent of McCarthy and Chris Young for one year of a starter who had a 5 ERA last season(Buehrle). That package is more than what the Diamondbacks got for Vazquez and Javy had 2 years left on his contract. In fact, I doubt the Mets will move Pelfrey, since they are still stung by the decision to trade Kazmir and Pelfrey is probably one of the top 5 starting pitching prospects in baseball.

 

I agree that Williams should hold out to get the best possible deal (considering the state of the farm system). But if people think Milledge and Pelfrey wouldn't be enough for Freddy or Mark, I have a feeling they are going to be disappointed in whatever trade KW finally makes.

It doesnt matter if he had a down year last year IMO, Buehrle has been our Ace now for several years and should demand the highest price. If we do not get a huge package for him, it benefits our team more in the short term to keep Buehrle, and I bet thats what KW is thinking.

 

Yes, I remember: Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips.

 

However, you can't compare the two situations. That was when he was in Montreal, where he had no payroll to sign FA's with. The only chance of getting impact players was through trades, and he consistently raped that farm system in order to do so. Simply because he got desperate then does not mean he will do that now.

 

Currently, he has at his disposal one of the largest piggybanks in baseball to utilize, and he will undoubtedly empty that out, rather than the Mets system. Trading one of those guys for Mark, sure. Trading two of them for Mark, probably not. Trading all three for Mark, not a chance. This isn't Montreal anymore.

So if the Mets do not want Buehrle at our price, they dont get him, and they have to either overpay or settle for something else. We do not have to make a deal to make a deal right now. There is so much of a market for pitching its ridiculous. Buehrle will make less money than Ted Lilly and Gil Meche this upcoming year, thats flat out ridiculous.

[iamshack]

It doesnt matter if he had a down year last year IMO, Buehrle has been our Ace now for several years and should demand the highest price. If we do not get a huge package for him, it benefits our team more in the short term to keep Buehrle, and I bet thats what KW is thinking.

So if the Mets do not want Buehrle at our price, they dont get him, and they have to either overpay or settle for something else. We do not have to make a deal to make a deal right now. There is so much of a market for pitching its ridiculous. Buehrle will make less money than Ted Lilly and Gil Meche this upcoming year, thats flat out ridiculous.

 

There is a difference between commanding a high price, and being flat-out unreasonable. For years, the Devil Rays were demanding the moon for some of their players, and teams eventually just said the hell with them and the Rays got nothing. Then Bowden tried to hold the league hostage with his ridiculous demands for Soriano and now has some draft picks to show for it, when that team desperately needs some mlb-ready players now.

 

Simply because the price of pitching is extraordinary right now does not mean you can ask for whatever you want; while we are one of the few teams with a surplus, we still would be better served by dealing at least one starter for an impact player or some quality prospects.

[RockRaines]

There is a difference between commanding a high price, and being flat-out unreasonable. For years, the Devil Rays were demanding the moon for some of their players, and teams eventually just said the hell with them and the Rays got nothing. Then Bowden tried to hold the league hostage with his ridiculous demands for Soriano and now has some draft picks to show for it, when that team desperately needs some mlb-ready players now.

 

Simply because the price of pitching is extraordinary right now does not mean you can ask for whatever you want; while we are one of the few teams with a surplus, we still would be better served by dealing at least one starter for an impact player or some quality prospects.

The market wasnt what it is right now. Gil Meche, who basically is a 5th starter and has never sniffed 200 innings is going to get a 4 year deal for 10-12 a year. Thats about as inflated as the market gets.

 

Also, why would we be better suited to deal one of our pitchers? I cant see why we should settle for a deal, just because making a move is the best thing we can do. As it stands right now, we most likely still have one of the best rotations in the AL, with one of the most potent lineups. If the deal does not favor us, we are better off standing pat until something catches our attention.

 

I will say this again. If we take the team we took into last year, or something of equal value, the team wins 95+ games 7 out of 10 times. We got pretty unlucky last year and had a year that was disappointing, but also somewhat uncharacteristic of the talent on our team. I think many people on here have xbox or fantasy syndrome where you think that any deal will improve the team, as long as we move pieces.

 

Prospects are also so overvalued on this board. We really arent a small market team, and as good as acquiring a stable of spects to bolster our minor league system would be, I would rather have an establish Ace like Mark Buehrle and sign him to an extension.

[Chisoxfn]

The market wasnt what it is right now. Gil Meche, who basically is a 5th starter and has never sniffed 200 innings is going to get a 4 year deal for 10-12 a year. Thats about as inflated as the market gets.

 

Also, why would we be better suited to deal one of our pitchers? I cant see why we should settle for a deal, just because making a move is the best thing we can do. As it stands right now, we most likely still have one of the best rotations in the AL, with one of the most potent lineups. If the deal does not favor us, we are better off standing pat until something catches our attention.

 

I will say this again. If we take the team we took into last year, or something of equal value, the team wins 95+ games 7 out of 10 times. We got pretty unlucky last year and had a year that was disappointing, but also somewhat uncharacteristic of the talent on our team. I think many people on here have xbox or fantasy syndrome where you think that any deal will improve the team, as long as we move pieces.

 

Prospects are also so overvalued on this board. We really arent a small market team, and as good as acquiring a stable of spects to bolster our minor league system would be, I would rather have an establish Ace like Mark Buehrle and sign him to an extension.

We are definately seeing things the same way this off-season.

[iamshack]

The market wasnt what it is right now. Gil Meche, who basically is a 5th starter and has never sniffed 200 innings is going to get a 4 year deal for 10-12 a year. Thats about as inflated as the market gets.

 

Also, why would we be better suited to deal one of our pitchers? I cant see why we should settle for a deal, just because making a move is the best thing we can do. As it stands right now, we most likely still have one of the best rotations in the AL, with one of the most potent lineups. If the deal does not favor us, we are better off standing pat until something catches our attention.

 

I will say this again. If we take the team we took into last year, or something of equal value, the team wins 95+ games 7 out of 10 times. We got pretty unlucky last year and had a year that was disappointing, but also somewhat uncharacteristic of the talent on our team. I think many people on here have xbox or fantasy syndrome where you think that any deal will improve the team, as long as we move pieces.

 

Prospects are also so overvalued on this board. We really arent a small market team, and as good as acquiring a stable of spects to bolster our minor league system would be, I would rather have an establish Ace like Mark Buehrle and sign him to an extension.

 

I don't claim we are a small market team, but no team other than the Yankees, perhaps, can afford to be handing out several $10+ annual salaries and expect to have any flexibility were those players to suffer injury, or perform at an unexpectedly mediocre level. I have no problem signing *some* of our players to extended contracts that pay them what they are worth. But as KW has said, you have to consistently infuse your roster with young talent or else you end up with an aging team or roster inflexibility. The answer cannot simply be to sign everyone to extensions. And with the way our system looks now, we don't exactly have a whole lot of young players to infuse into our everyday lineup. We have to be careful with whom we decide to keep, and who we recognize we would be better off trading.

 

Under your theory, we'll demand an exorbitant price for any of our starters, and possibly come up empty. Then we'll walk into 07' with the same rotation, and where will Brandon pitch? Charlotte? That will make him miserable. Out of the pen? Even KW admitted that if you put him in the pen you are risking his ability to become an effective starter in this league. Simply because there are mediocre options out there signing for $10 million annually does not mean that teams are going to trade you their top 3 prospects for your above average starter. It means they are going to give a shot to someone in their system and bank on him producing 80% of the performance of one of those mediocre FA's for 5% of the cost.

 

Believe me, I'm all for taking advantage of our position in this marketplace. But if we don't, because we asked to much, then we have missed a major opportunity to take advantage of our surplus and restock our system. Because sooner or later, under KW's philosophy of player acquisition, we are going to run out of prospects to use in trades to get established veterans. At some point we need to restock the farm so we can continue to move prospects for established players.

 

I'm not arguing that we need to keep whatever prospects we get in return for dealing one of our starters. Just that it would be foolish to miss out on this opportunity to take advantage of this market. Because I don't want the draft picks when these guys walk. I want players that are close.

[To LA from Chicago]

Wasn't the case with Brian Anderson this season.

 

Young hitting takes time to adjust and produce at the major league level, unless you're an Albert Pujols or Miggy Cabrera.

 

With young pitching, if it'sgood enough, then yeah it can be successful sooner IMHO.

 

 

Has anyone ever thought about 'IMHO'? I mean, have you even known anyone to have a dishonest opinion?

 

Just asking..

[Chisoxfn]

Has anyone ever thought about 'IMHO'? I mean, have you even known anyone to have a dishonest opinion?

 

Just asking..

Welcome aboard

[Balta1701]

Has anyone ever thought about 'IMHO'? I mean, have you even known anyone to have a dishonest opinion?

 

Just asking..

 

Moving on...

[Palehosefan]

Has anyone ever thought about 'IMHO'? I mean, have you even known anyone to have a dishonest opinion?

 

Just asking..

 

"Honey, do I look fat in these?"

[Soxbadger]

I thought IMHO stands for in my humble opinion.

[RME JICO]

I thought IMHO stands for in my humble opinion.

It does, however some say it has morphed to "honest", and both are now widely used.

[The Critic]

Has anyone ever thought about 'IMHO'? I mean, have you even known anyone to have a dishonest opinion?

 

Just asking..

OJ Simpson has a dishonest opinion.

[fathom]

Yahoo reports Mets talked to the Sox today about Garcia.

[RME JICO]

Yahoo reports Mets talked to the Sox today about Garcia.

and Vazquez.

[Goober]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AvRC...ns#madduxpadres

[CanOfCorn]

Yahoo reports Mets talked to the Sox today about Garcia.

 

 

Omar Minaya: "Hey Boras! Yo Zito! We don't NEED you. We would LIKE you."

 

Borat: "I like you. Do you like me?"