Williams working on extension for Buehrle/Garcia

[CanOfCorn]

I found this at Baseball Reference when looking up Chris Carpenter. These are the similar pitchers. If you go to the site, it will explain their rating system. I think FG is higher because he's been around longer.

 

1. Moose Haas (955)

2. Matt Morris (955)

3. Freddy Garcia (950)

4. George Pipgras (947)

5. Erik Hanson (945)

6. Tex Carleton (944)

7. Mark Buehrle (940)

8. Rick Reed (940)

9. La Marr Hoyt (939)

10. Teddy Higuera (939)

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/similarity.shtml

 

I agree, if Buehrle is the one who is re-signed. Unless he's willing to take a paycut, I'd rather not see the Sox re-sign Freddy and his mid-80's fastball.

 

 

I think Carpenter just set the market. Maybe 3/42 with an player/team option year or two. That's a mil a year more than Carpenter, who's older and has a bit of an injury history.

[southsider2k5]

I found this at Baseball Reference when looking up Chris Carpenter. These are the similar pitchers. If you go to the site, it will explain their rating system. I think FG is higher because he's been around longer.

 

1. Moose Haas (955)

2. Matt Morris (955)

3. Freddy Garcia (950)

4. George Pipgras (947)

5. Erik Hanson (945)

6. Tex Carleton (944)

7. Mark Buehrle (940)

8. Rick Reed (940)

9. La Marr Hoyt (939)

10. Teddy Higuera (939)

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/similarity.shtml

I think Carpenter just set the market. Maybe 3/42 with an player/team option year or two. That's a mil a year more than Carpenter, who's older and has a bit of an injury history.

 

3 years for Buehrle? He would laugh us out of the room. We have to pray he would take 5 in this market place.

[Balta1701]

I agree, if Buehrle is the one who is re-signed. Unless he's willing to take a paycut, I'd rather not see the Sox re-sign Freddy and his mid-80's fastball.

If Garcia would take a 3 year deal without a no-trade clause and for a somewhat reasonable price (i.e. not $15 million a year), I could tolerate resigning him and trading Vazquez. But resigning Buehrle would be the preferable solution in all cases.

[CanOfCorn]

3 years for Buehrle? He would laugh us out of the room. We have to pray he would take 5 in this market place.

 

If you have a mutual option for 2 more years, that's pretty much a 5 year deal.

[tonyho7476]

I'm with a lot of previous posters...extend Buerhle (so my jersey remains relevent) and trade Freddy. I have to think last year is going to go down as Buerhle's worst season. He'll have a nice year in '07.

[WCSox]

I think Carpenter just set the market. Maybe 3/42 with an player/team option year or two. That's a mil a year more than Carpenter, who's older and has a bit of an injury history.

 

Freddy and Carpenter are apples and oranges. No way that Freddy gets $14 million/year... at least, not from the Sox.

 

 

If you have a mutual option for 2 more years, that's pretty much a 5 year deal.

 

I think that Buehrle rejects that hits the FA market. I hope I'm wrong, but I think he'd be kind of stupid not to.

[CanOfCorn]

Freddy and Carpenter are apples and oranges. No way that Freddy gets $14 million/year... at least, not from the Sox.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean for Freddy, I meant for Mark.

[WCSox]

Sorry, I didn't mean for Freddy, I meant for Mark.

 

$14 mil/year for Mark is reasonable. That said, it'll likely be a five-year deal. Unless JR can get a "hometown discount" at 5/$60, I think that he's gone after this year. I just can't see JR committing $70 million to a pitcher who has mediocre stuff and a ton of innings on his arm.

[aboz56]

I'd say 5/65 is a fair deal for Buehrle and the Sox.

 

Get it done KW.

[CanOfCorn]

$14 mil/year for Mark is reasonable. That said, it'll likely be a five-year deal. Unless JR can get a "hometown discount" at 5/$60, I think that he's gone after this year. I just can't see JR committing $70 million to a pitcher who has mediocre stuff and a ton of innings on his arm.

 

He's still 28, a lefty, he doesn't have any pitches that put heavy torque on his arm like a Zito does, he pitches to the defense and has won a World Series. If he does it for anyone, I think Mark would be the guy.

[Baines3]

Extend their contracts KW please!

[Chisoxfn]

I'd say 5/65 is a fair deal for Buehrle and the Sox.

 

Get it done KW.

And Boz will officially declare Buehrle his lover upon the signing of the extension

 

Speaking of which...you better be finding a way to get Mark back to his old ways.

[WCSox]

He's still 28, a lefty, he doesn't have any pitches that put heavy torque on his arm like a Zito does, he pitches to the defense and has won a World Series. If he does it for anyone, I think Mark would be the guy.

 

He also began his ML career at age 21 and has thrown 200+ innings over the past 6 years. And he does feature a breaking ball that puts torque on his arm (not to the extent of Zito's, but still). And his stuff isn't on the same level as Zito's.

 

Mulder is another guy who came up at an early age and threw a ton of innings. Look at what happened to him this past year. And then look at Buehrle's decline in velocity over the second half of last season. I'm not saying that the Sox shouldn't re-sign him, but I can't blame KW and JR for being hesitant to give Buehrle $60-$70 million over 5 years.

[aboz56]

And Boz will officially declare Buehrle his lover upon the signing of the extension

 

Speaking of which...you better be finding a way to get Mark back to his old ways.

He'll be back next year, book it. All-star for the third straight year.

 

Do you think 5/65 would get it done?

[Chisoxfn]

He'll be back next year, book it. All-star for the third straight year.

 

Do you think 5/65 would get it done?

I think he would listen to that and I think its a pretty fair offer considering the season he's coming off of. On the FA market I think he would get 5/75 to 5/80 which is roughly 15 or 16 million per season so I could definately see him taking 2 million less knowing he gets it now as opposed to having to wait another season. Plus if he has another season like the last one he wouldn't get near that offer.

 

And if he pitches like Mark usually does, its a pretty damn good deal for both sides. Get er done!!!!

[southsider2k5]

If you have a mutual option for 2 more years, that's pretty much a 5 year deal.

 

Unless it is HIS option, I don't see it happening. If someone like AJ Burnett could get a five year deal last year, imagine what Buehrle will get next year? The guy has never been hurt, and had that incredible streak of 6 IP in each start. That alone will justify a team giving him at least 5 years, if not more.

 

He'll be back next year, book it. All-star for the third straight year.

 

Do you think 5/65 would get it done?

 

I don't think so, but I think it would be a good starting point for negotiations.

[RME JICO]

I don't think so, but I think it would be a good starting point for negotiations.

5/65 is more than Carpenter got for his extension. I don't think KW is going to pay Mark more than that.

[southsider2k5]

5/65 is more than Carpenter got for his extension. I don't think KW is going to pay Mark more than that.

 

Buehrle is also younger and more healthy that Carpenter by far, and left-handed.

[WCSox]

5/65 is more than Carpenter got for his extension. I don't think KW is going to pay Mark more than that.

 

Carpenter could've gotten more than that. He's dominated over the past three years, won a Cy Young, pitched lights-out in the WS, won a ring, etc. Methinks that he really wanted to stay in St. Louis and settled for a "hometown discount."

[SoxFan562004]

Carpenter could've gotten more than that. He's dominated over the past three years, won a Cy Young, pitched lights-out in the WS, won a ring, etc. Methinks that he really wanted to stay in St. Louis and settled for a "hometown discount."

Kind of my reaction when I heard the numbers as well. I imagine the union was upset with him, it probably will drag the Zito and Schmidt signings out a little longer

[mmmmmbeeer]

IMO, y'all overvalue MB. There's no way in hell I'd offer him 5/65. $15m a year for a guy with so many innings, so dependent on control over stuff, so streaky?

 

I know many will disagree, but I think Freddy is a much better pitcher than MB and I think it'd be a mistake to let Freddy go while signing mark to a 5/65 deal. Neither of them had their best stuff last year but Mark atleast started the season pitching well. When he lost it, he lost it. He was horrible and I saw few adjustments on his part to make things improve. Freddy never had it last season and yet completely adjusted his approach to compensate for his loss of velocity. Hell, he even learned a new pitch which paid instant dividends.

 

When looking at a longterm deal, and a strong possibility of the pitcher losing his "stuff" with age, I want the guy who has the ability to change his style, not a guy who just waits around to get his "stuff" back...especially when that "stuff" was never great to begin with.

[Rowand44]

IMO, y'all overvalue MB. There's no way in hell I'd offer him 5/65. $15m a year for a guy with so many innings, so dependent on control over stuff, so streaky?

 

I know many will disagree, but I think Freddy is a much better pitcher than MB and I think it'd be a mistake to let Freddy go while signing mark to a 5/65 deal. Neither of them had their best stuff last year but Mark atleast started the season pitching well. When he lost it, he lost it. He was horrible and I saw few adjustments on his part to make things improve. Freddy never had it last season and yet completely adjusted his approach to compensate for his loss of velocity. Hell, he even learned a new pitch which paid instant dividends.

How is Mark streaky? He's had one bad season and that was last year. Mark is younger and has better career numbers, how is Freddy better?

[mmmmmbeeer]

How is Mark streaky? He's had one bad season and that was last year. Mark is younger and has better career numbers, how is Freddy better?

 

When Mark is rolling, he's rolling. When he's struggling, he's struggling...it might be for 2 weeks, it might be for a month, it might be for 3/4 of the season..but he's always come across to me as a streaky pitcher. It's just an observation of mine and I'm not skilled, nor bored enough, to dig through statistics to prove my observation.

 

The context of my statement was built on the premise of a long term deal. I think Freddy, due to the ability and initiative to adjust his game when struggling, is a better candidate and investment for a long term deal. Freddy was a power pitcher, he's got a whole other style to fall back on, namely deception and control. Mark was never a power pitcher and already relies on deception and control. So if, like last season, he loses that control and deception, what does he fall back on? He's got nothing unless he learns a knuckler from Haeger.

 

Edited to add, give me Freddy in a big game over MB. That alone is worth a contract.

Edited December 5, 2006 by mmmmmbeeer

[Soxbadger]

IMO, y'all overvalue MB. There's no way in hell I'd offer him 5/65. $15m a year for a guy with so many innings, so dependent on control over stuff, so streaky?

 

5 years 65 mil isnt 15mil per year, that would be 5 years 75 mil.

 

5 years 65 mil is 13 mil per year.

[Rowand44]

When Mark is rolling, he's rolling. When he's struggling, he's struggling...it might be for 2 weeks, it might be for a month, it might be for 3/4 of the season..but he's always come across to me as a streaky pitcher. It's just an observation of mine and I'm not skilled, nor bored enough, to dig through statistics to prove my observation.

 

The context of my statement was built on the premise of a long term deal. I think Freddy, due to the ability and initiative to adjust his game when struggling, is a better candidate and investment for a long term deal. Freddy was a power pitcher, he's got a whole other style to fall back on, namely deception and control. Mark was never a power pitcher and already relies on deception and control. So if, like last season, he loses that control and deception, what does he fall back on? He's got nothing unless he learns a knuckler from Haeger.

 

Edited to add, give me Freddy in a big game over MB. That alone is worth a contract.

It took Freddy 5 months to make adjustments and I still don't trust him at all. He had like 3 or 4 starts in September that saved his season from looking like a total disaster. Mark absolutely stunk the 2nd half of last season but I see no reason why he wont bounce back. He's easily the better long term commitment imo.