Rowand44 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 12:58 AM) I was talking about GIO. Well Boo urns to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:59 PM) Well Boo urns to you. And Boo One to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 01:00 AM) And Boo One to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baines3 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 I doubt very much if Floyd will be a starter. Bmac is a lock for the starting rotation IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(whitesox1976 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 01:01 AM) I doubt very much if Floyd will be a starter. Bmac is a lock for the starting rotation IMO. No doubt Mac is going to start but if anything it can push Brandon a bit in spring training. A little competition is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 If Gio is still in our organization come April do you guys think he starts in Birmingham or Charlotte? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Well, now that I'm liquored up a bit, and have had a chance to fully break this deal down, it's not as bad as I originally thought. I still think we could've done a little better. But Freddy is a FA at the end of next year. We have to remember that. I am estatic to have Gio back, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(whitesox1976 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 02:01 AM) Bmac is a lock for the starting rotation IMO. Yippee...I'm all atingle. I posted on another board that he'll probably be on IR by July from the snap in his neck watchin' all the rockets fly outta the Cell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 01:11 AM) Well, now that I'm liquored up a bit, and have had a chance to fully break this deal down, it's not as bad as I originally thought. I still think we could've done a little better. But Freddy is a FA at the end of next year. We have to remember that. I am estatic to have Gio back, though. LOL, what's with you and drunk posting as of late? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinkingShip06 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 "The White Sox are still open for business" KW said so come in and take what you like cause obviously no one knows what the hell is goin on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Wanne @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 01:12 AM) Yippee...I'm all atingle. I posted on another board that he'll probably be on IR by July from the snap in his neck watchin' all the rockets fly outta the Cell. He will cost 10 million dollars less than the other guy who gave up 32 of those last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 01:12 AM) LOL, what's with you and drunk posting as of late? LOL. My new girl is a bad influence on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 My initial reaction to this trade was similar to the majority of Sox fans that didn't like it, but I will attempt to take a step back and look at some of the potential positives of this trade(I haven't read the entire thread so I am not sure if they have been posted). *Sox fans overrate Garcia - solid, proven, middle of the rotation, veterans pitchers are a nice comodity, but I think some fans were making Garcia into a Johan Santana at least in trade value. Let not forget that this guy had a very mediocre season last year, and without a few outstanding starts towards the end of the season would have had pretty bad overall stats. Who knows what to expect from Garcia next year? Is he going to regain his fastball? Is he going to pitch like he did for the first half of the season? Is he going to become a very good pitcher with his new splitter? It is like playing Russian roulette. *Garcia is a FA next year - the fact remains that the Sox could have possible lost Garcia next offseason with nothing to show for in return. It is highly unlikely that they would have given him a relatively long-term deal in the ten-twelve million per year range, which is what he would likely command with the new high prices for FA. There was no guarantee that they would have offered him arbitration and got a few draft picks, so getting a couple of solid young pitchers in return guarantees that they will obviously get something in return. *Young pitching is how you build a perienal contender - With the exception of the Yankees who can pay five starters ten+ million per year, the way to build a perienial contender is by incorporating young pitching. Teams like Oakland and Minnesota have given the recipe needed to constantly contend. Beane wasn't affraid to trade proven veteran like Hudson and Mulder for unproven young pitchers, and because of it Oakland has the young pitching foundation needed to contend for a while. Same goes for Minnesota, although they have mostly developed their own young pitching through their minor league system. Let face the facts, the Sox rotation is getting older and the Sox minor league system has few top pitching prospects, so they need to start somewhere. *Save money - I am not sure whether any cash is involved in the deal, but the Sox will likely save roughly ten million this season with this trade. That money can be used to sign a few FA or could be used to add a big salary player via a trade. See the Carlos Lee trade for an example of how saving money can improve the team. In fact, I think you can make an argument that the trade is Garcia for Floyd, Gonzalez, and a PTBN or two(meaning what and see how that ten million is spent) *Another trade - I am not sure whether the Sox intend on using Floyd in the rotation or starting him in AAA next year, but I wouldn't be surprised to see another big trade before the offseason is over. If the Sox intend on using Floyd as the 5th starter(or are planning on adding other young pitchers to contend for that spot), than you will likely see the Sox move another veteran pitcher. The Sox might also decide to use Floyd and/or Gonzalez as trade bait to add a proven veteran(maybe an outfielder). *Floyd/Gonzalez might surprise - Floyd certainly has the stuff to be a front of the rotation starter, and certainly has the stuff to be a solid starter in the majors next season. Gonzalez becomes the Sox top pitching prospect IMO, and despite his so-so season last year has a ton of potential. And lets not forget that he was only twenty pitching in AA as well. He is well ahead of the learning curve at this point. Point being, we should look at the positives and negatives of this trade before we come to the conclusion of whether it is a good trade or bad trade. As always, only time will determine if this is a good trade or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(whitesox61382 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 01:28 AM) My initial reaction to this trade was similar to the majority of Sox fans that didn't like it, but I will attempt to take a step back and look at some of the potential positives of this trade(I haven't read the entire thread so I am not sure if they have been posted). *Sox fans overrate Garcia - solid, proven, middle of the rotation, veterans pitchers are a nice comodity, but I think some fans were making Garcia into a Johan Santana at least in trade value. Let not forget that this guy had a very mediocre season last year, and without a few outstanding starts towards the end of the season would have had pretty bad overall stats. Who knows what to expect from Garcia next year? Is he going to regain his fastball? Is he going to pitch like he did for the first half of the season? Is he going to become a very good pitcher with his new splitter? It is like playing Russian roulette. *Garcia is a FA next year - the fact remains that the Sox could have possible lost Garcia next offseason with nothing to show for in return. It is highly unlikely that they would have given him a relatively long-term deal in the ten-twelve million per year range, which is what he would likely command with the new high prices for FA. There was no guarantee that they would have offered him arbitration and got a few draft picks, so getting a couple of solid young pitchers in return guarantees that they will obviously get something in return. *Young pitching is how you build a perienal contender - With the exception of the Yankees who can pay five starters ten+ million per year, the way to build a perienial contender is by incorporating young pitching. Teams like Oakland and Minnesota have given the recipe needed to constantly contend. Beane wasn't affraid to trade proven veteran like Hudson and Mulder for unproven young pitchers, and because of it Oakland has the young pitching foundation needed to contend for a while. Same goes for Minnesota, although they have mostly developed their own young pitching through their minor league system. Let face the facts, the Sox rotation is getting older and the Sox minor league system has few top pitching prospects, so they need to start somewhere. *Save money - I am not sure whether any cash is involved in the deal, but the Sox will likely save roughly ten million this season with this trade. That money can be used to sign a few FA or could be used to add a big salary player via a trade. See the Carlos Lee trade for an example of how saving money can improve the team. In fact, I think you can make an argument that the trade is Garcia for Floyd, Gonzalez, and a PTBN or two(meaning what and see how that ten million is spent) *Another trade - I am not sure whether the Sox intend on using Floyd in the rotation or starting him in AAA next year, but I wouldn't be surprised to see another big trade before the offseason is over. If the Sox intend on using Floyd as the 5th starter(or are planning on adding other young pitchers to contend for that spot), than you will likely see the Sox move another veteran pitcher. The Sox might also decide to use Floyd and/or Gonzalez as trade bait to add a proven veteran(maybe an outfielder). *Floyd/Gonzalez might surprise - Floyd certainly has the stuff to be a front of the rotation starter, and certainly has the stuff to be a solid starter in the majors next season. Gonzalez becomes the Sox top pitching prospect IMO, and despite his so-so season last year has a ton of potential. And lets not forget that he was only twenty pitching in AA as well. He is well ahead of the learning curve at this point. Point being, we should look at the positives and negatives of this trade before we come to the conclusion of whether it is a good trade or bad trade. As always, only time will determine if this is a good trade or not. Good post sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 02:32 AM) Good post sir. Cosign. Great post indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 There you go throwing logic and common sense into SoxTalk, whitesox61382....theres no room for such here, most GMs here woulda got ALOT more than that for Garcia on MLB2k7!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spod=Ratings Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Capn12 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 01:36 AM) There you go throwing logic and common sense into SoxTalk, whitesox61382....theres no room for such here, most GMs here woulda got ALOT more than that for Garcia on MLB2k7!! Williams should just turn the CPU overides trade option off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 I'd recommend watching the press conference if you guys haven't yet. The beginning and end especially are rather entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 (edited) Kenny's comment on Floyd being a guy that could push for a rotation spot has me 100 percent convinced he wants to use Floyd in a trade for an OF, btw. Forgot to point that out earlier, but that was my immediate thought when I read his comment, because that is some serious smoke he's trying to blow up everybody's ass right there. Not sure anybody is silly enough to buy it though. Either that, or we're going to trade another starter (Buehrle or Vasquez) and give Floyd a shot at the #5 spot. Not sure I'd like that at all though, I don't mind this trade at all but I don't want to make another in terms of giving up a SP unless we're blown away. Edited December 7, 2006 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 02:06 AM) I'd recommend watching the press conference if you guys haven't yet. The beginning and end especially are rather entertaining. I will vouch for this, as I would have been laughing out loud had it not been a quarter after 2 in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 A thought just entered my mind. Is there any chance in hell that the Sox use that $10M in available payroll to take a run at Pettitte or Clemens for one year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 02:24 AM) I will vouch for this, as I would have been laughing out loud had it not been a quarter after 2 in the morning. Details, my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 (edited) What is disappointing for me is I honestly believed our over abundance of starting pitching, within this skewed market, would translate into a general manager overpaying for the services of whichever starter; upcoming FA or not. Honestly, Floyd/Gonzalez is about what you would expect from Garcia if everything were equal. That is, pitchers paid according to the abilities. Problem is, the recent salaries of mid/low rotation starters has shown this certaintly is not the case. It should have been easy to atleast find someone willing to pay slightly above value. I believe whichever move is upcoming -- whether that's persuing another bat or not -- this Garcia deal will be viewed entirely as a salary dump. Does it honestly sound to you like a move Williams thought, "well, better jump on this or else I may not get anything better." My ass. Whitesox, you mention Oakland and Minnesota. Both organizations share a common link -- recently, they were on the end of generous trades which were forgred from dealing from a position of strength. Remind me again what St. Louis received for Mulder? Or Minnesota for Pierzysnki? I'm tired of equal trades. I know people grow aggrivated with me continually bringing up LIriano/etc., but it would be welcomed if Williams could orchestrate a lopsided trade to benefit this club. Everyone knows nothing special is available within our system, our drafting philosophy is based more upon safety than projection, and suddenly -- according to Phil Rogers-- we're shutting out the veterans in our pitching staff as well as every other FA pitcher on the market. Awesome. Oh, and don't forget that Boras character either. Can't deal with him!!11 To think, I believed someone may have been willing to overpay for our starters. Even though I had this nauseating feeling Williams wouldn't come through, the potential was clearly present. Anyone just find it a bit troubling that in such a marketplace, with an absence of quality starting pticher, this is the best we could get? Guess such a dream scneario will have to happen to another team, as it always seems to do. Edited December 7, 2006 by Flash Tizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 08:06 AM) I'd recommend watching the press conference if you guys haven't yet. The beginning and end especially are rather entertaining. I was just going to say the same thing. Definitely glad to have Gio back. Counting last year, the trade ends up being Thome + $$$ + Gio + Floyd for Rowand + Garcia + Castro/Haigwood. It looks a lot better that way, so I think I'm going to just post it like that from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 02:25 AM) A thought just entered my mind. Is there any chance in hell that the Sox use that $10M in available payroll to take a run at Pettitte or Clemens for one year? I highly doubt it sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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