NorthSideSox72 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(quickman @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 08:29 AM) they wont sign either.We will never sign a boras client, and Buerhle is as good as gone. So if they don't sign them, what do you do with the cash? Good question - that I do not know. But if you have the money, there are always players to be had. If they indeed don't sign Buerhle and/or Crede, then I am hoping for a big upgrade in the outfield. Actually, I am hoping for that anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(quickman @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 08:42 AM) actually its the whole thinking process that is changing. We are acting like we don't have money again. I think that will backfire with fans. That's the part I don't like. JR should fire anyone who mentions money publicly. The fans have stepped up, whether they are bandwagon or not. They supposedly have an incredible renewal rate with season tickets even with a 3rd place finish. You can't cry about the soaring contracts. You are going to eventually have to pay up or be the Pirates or Marlins. Other than that, I think this is a good deal. It will affect how KW operates the rest of the way because of the financial savings, which is sort of like the Pods/Lee trade and if Floyd and Gio develop, it will turn into a steal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 08:49 AM) That's the part I don't like. JR should fire anyone who mentions money publicly. The fans have stepped up, whether they are bandwagon or not. They supposedly have an incredible renewal rate with season tickets even with a 3rd place finish. You can't cry about the soaring contracts. You are going to eventually have to pay up or be the Pirates or Marlins. Other than that, I think this is a good deal. It will affect how KW operates the rest of the way because of the financial savings, which is sort of like the Pods/Lee trade and if Floyd and Gio develop, it will turn into a steal. We don't have the scouts to be the Marlins, but I know what you're saying. Unless Kenny does something real good between now and Opening Day, he's looking more and more like his pre-2005 form. (I know we all appreciate KW, but he hasn't always been the best GM.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(quickman @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 09:42 AM) actually its the whole thinking process that is changing. We are acting like we don't have money again. I think that will backfire with fans. It won't backfire if the team keeps winning, and right now they have still have 5 very good starters and a project in Floyd. Most people that showed up to the Cell these last couple years don't care about deals like this, or organizational philosophy. They come out to see a winning team. Also, KW said that this was not motivated by money issues, which leads me to believe they are willing to put that money they saved back into the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 08:49 AM) That's the part I don't like. JR should fire anyone who mentions money publicly. The fans have stepped up, whether they are bandwagon or not. They supposedly have an incredible renewal rate with season tickets even with a 3rd place finish. You can't cry about the soaring contracts. You are going to eventually have to pay up or be the Pirates or Marlins. Other than that, I think this is a good deal. It will affect how KW operates the rest of the way because of the financial savings, which is sort of like the Pods/Lee trade and if Floyd and Gio develop, it will turn into a steal. also Dick, why trade your best centerfielder for vasquez if indeed you were not going for it. In 12 months it appears that the sox philosphy is changing. think of this, if everyone thought Mcarthy was all that, then put him in the rotation last year, keep young and now you have your centerfielder. I agree. but the philosphy was different last year, it was win the world series. That has now changed. This trade does not make us better. It does not fill any holes this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxmanager Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Gavin Floyds #s: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7297 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phiteinphils Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Chicago got a wonderful pitcher in Gio Gonzalez. I'm from Reading, Pennsylvania, which is where he pitched all season, and he was the most entertaining pitcher the r-phils had. I'm sad to see him go but I'm glad he's goin to the White Sox. I guarentee he will be in the majors either later this season or the start of next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosox41 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 08:46 AM) The whole process of thinking is not changing, but your right it could backfire with the fans. But that is because fans, for the most part, are stupid. There are only the select few who actually have a clue what is going on, and most of them post here. I still, by itself, like the trade of McCarthy for Garcia in our rotation, add in 2 good prospects and I'm happier. I agree about the fans being, for the most part, stupid. I actually like this trade. The reality is that no matter what happens in the 2007 season, they were not going to be able to hold both Buehrle and Garcia in '08. And if they did keep one of them, it would be for about $15 mill per year which takes away resources. These Sox fans that don't get it, and there are more then I'd like to admit, will be the first ones not showing up for games the second the Sox fall out of contention. It's unforntunate, but true. That being said, if the '07 team makes the playoffs (and further) then these same fans will be at the ballpark in '08. The only difference is the '08 team now has a better chance to contend since they are gathering a plethora of young pitching. While some of these guys will falter, some will succeed and be very good. And while the Sox will have a some good young pitching on the cheap they can take advantage of teams that screwed themselves this winter by falling for what I call 'Carl Pavano Syndrome'. remember that every team that signs free agents for big money aren't going to make the playoffs. Some will eventually have to rebuild/salary dump and KW will be right there with the flexibility to screw these teams over. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord chas Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 i thought we were supposed to have leverage considering we have an excess of pitchers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(philadelphia sox fan @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:13 PM) Chicago got a wonderful pitcher in Gio Gonzalez. I'm from Reading, Pennsylvania, which is where he pitched all season, and he was the most entertaining pitcher the r-phils had. I'm sad to see him go but I'm glad he's goin to the White Sox. I guarentee he will be in the majors either later this season or the start of next season. thanks for the info and welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(quickman @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 08:19 AM) lets say thats true, we are a far cry from vernon wells. We received nothing. Demoralizing, for a sox fan. What happened to win now? KW for the last three years said he wanted to win now. Appears thats gone. What can we get for 10 million? not much. In addition, I will assume they will use that money to pay crede and buerhle's raises. You will be dissapointed. I know you hate young players and figure that vets should be on the field at all times. But what was your solution. Did you really think that should of resigned Freddy at current market, or did you want to get a one year rental on a wells type player. I mean the draft pick is pretty sexy, but do you really think that teams were willing to give up major league grade a talent for a 1 year rental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox It To Em Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 According to the guys at WSI, Bruce Levine is reporting that the Sox are very close to another big trade (sorry if already been posted). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Sox It To Em @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 09:21 AM) According to the guys at WSI, Bruce Levine is reporting that the Sox are very close to another big trade (sorry if already been posted). Is it Omar Vizquel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S720 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 09:19 AM) I know you hate young players and figure that vets should be on the field at all times. But what was your solution. Did you really think that should of resigned Freddy at current market, or did you want to get a one year rental on a wells type player. I mean the draft pick is pretty sexy, but do you really think that teams were willing to give up major league grade a talent for a 1 year rental. Southsideirish71, do you think Kenny should get more than Floyd and Gonzalez for Garcia? I am not knocking the trade of Garcia. I am terribly disappointed of the unfair-valued return. When everyone knows that the White Sox are sitting pretty with six starting pitchers, all we need to do is wait for few more weeks for Zito to be gone to some team. After Zito is gone, we will have a much better leverage to trade Garcia than it is now. Personally, I feel Kenny is jumping the gun here!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Sox It To Em @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 09:21 AM) According to the guys at WSI, Bruce Levine is reporting that the Sox are very close to another big trade (sorry if already been posted). KW is doing the same exact thing he did last year. Sign on the dotted line, or you are traded. Does everyone think that somehow that draft picks are cool now. Because that is what you get if you dont pay for them. And as we have found out before, not every team is ready to give up their best group of players for a rental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Athletics selected LHP Jay Marshall from the White Sox in Thursday's Rule 5 draft. Marshall had a 1.02 ERA and 44/8 K/BB ratio in 62 IP for Single-A Winston-Salem last season and was simply unbelievable against left-handers, not giving up a walk or a homer to one all year long. He doesn't have the same stuff as Fabio Castro, the left-hander the White Sox lost in last year's draft, but he is worth a closer look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Wow...this is incredible, the debate going on here. My two cents. Gio is a great get back. And considering they got Thome for him and then got him back, that's pretty good. Gavin Floyd obviously has something or else he wouldn't be a first round pick. That doesn't mean he's GOING to be your number one starter, but give him some time with Coop and we'll see. This just made our system deeper and may lead to another trade. I think this is a wash. Could KW gotten more? Sure, probably could have. But who were those players? Were they all projects? We ALL want XBox trades. We all want A-Rod for Ozuna. But, it's not gonna happen. Don't be surprised if something else were to come of this. As for the win-now issue. I don't think this damages the team at all. All it does is substitute one player that we all knew was going to happen anyway. But this definitely gives KW the luxury of going out and getting someone that the Sox need. And no, I won't speculate on who that is, but I would be surprised if the Sox are done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 (edited) Oakland selected Jay Marshall, an A league pitcher for us, in the Rule5 draft. Edited December 7, 2006 by kwolf68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 For those of us not terribly in the know... can you clarify the Rule V rule? From what I can tell, basically, any player in your minor league system not protected on the 40-man roster can be drafted by another team, with compensation returning in the form of draft picks. Is that correct? Are there other conditions we could have used to protect someone like this, if we wanted to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 09:31 AM) For those of us not terribly in the know... can you clarify the Rule V rule? From what I can tell, basically, any player in your minor league system not protected on the 40-man roster can be drafted by another team, with compensation returning in the form of draft picks. Is that correct? Are there other conditions we could have used to protect someone like this, if we wanted to? Eligibility: A player not on a team's Major League 40-man roster is eligible for the Rule 5 draft if: the player was 18 or younger when he first signed a pro contract and this is the fourth Rule 5 draft since he signed, OR if he was 19 or older when he first signed a pro contract and this is the third Rule 5 draft since he signed. A player drafted onto a Major League roster in the Rule 5 draft must remain in the majors (on the 25-man active roster or the DL) for all of the subsequent season, or the drafting club must attempt to return him to his original club. However, since a returned Rule 5 player must first be placed on outright waivers, a third club could claim the player off waivers. But of course, that club would then also have to keep him in the majors all season, or offer him back to his original club. Occasionally, the drafting club will work out a trade with the player's original team, allowing the drafting club to retain the player but send him to the minors. Edited to add: That may be somewhat out of date since there is a new CBA in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(Sox It To Em @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 09:21 AM) According to the guys at WSI, Bruce Levine is reporting that the Sox are very close to another big trade (sorry if already been posted). Any details at all... players... teams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 (edited) they've added an extra year to rule 5 eligibility i think. Edited December 7, 2006 by Hatchetman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phiteinphils Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Ok, my rundown on these two players you got. Gaving Floyd and Cole Hamels came up in the same system, at the same time. Hamels had injury problems so he was stuck in single A for a while. Meanwhile, Floyd was throwing darts at every level he went. The year we brought him up, we all knew it was too early but we had major rotation issues. He came up unprepared and struggled in the majors. Ever since then, he hasn't been the same. Our "experts" (gotta remember I'm talking about the Phillies "experts") say it was a mechanical issue he develpoed in the majors with his release point and arm angle. He made the rotation out of spring training with a great effort in florida, but leveled off during the season. Personally, I thought he was doing a decent job in the Majors, but he was sent down to AAA again, never to be seen again. Gio Gonzalez was our draft pick we got when we traded Thome, so essentally he came from the White Sox pick. He was in AA all of last year and I saw a good number of his games. At some points, he was simply unhittable. He could get out of an any inning at any time in less than 9 pitches and not even blink. But sometimes when the pressure is on, he doesn't step up to the plate. I saw him pitched against Met's #1 prospect at the time Mike Pelfrey. Gio just seemed off his game the entire time and the r-phils lost by 4. I think you got a better pitcher in Gio, but if you could make Floyd work the way he knows how to work, you got yourself two excelent pitching options in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpib Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:41 AM) Any details at all... players... teams? Supposedly the Astros are getting Jon Garland Astros get Garland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox It To Em Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 09:41 AM) Any details at all... players... teams? Nope, I would be listening, but I live in the boondocks and can't pick up ESPN 1000, and apparently you can't listen live online. QUOTE(It @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 09:46 AM) Supposedly the Astros are getting Jon Garland Astros get Garland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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