Garcia to Philly for Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez

[Harry Chappas]

Sun-Times stated that the White Sox watched film of Gavin Floyd all day yesterday and they feel that there was a mechanical issue that they can correct.

 

They got back two major league arms under 25. There are not many of them. I do not believe Copper is the second coming but he got Thorton and Jenks to do something pretty well and he may be able to do it with Floyd. Last night I thought this trade sucked. Now I actually like it

 

Number 5 options for next year McCarthy, Floyd, Broadway, Haegar, and Gio/Mccullogh at least there are options. There is also Matt Thorton.

[Balta1701]

Sun-Times stated that the White Sox watched film of Gavin Floyd all day yesterday and they feel that there was a mechanical issue that they can correct.

 

They got back two major league arms under 25. There are not many of them. I do not believe Copper is the second coming but he got Thorton and Jenks to do something pretty well and he may be able to do it with Floyd. Last night I thought this trade sucked. Now I actually like it

I'm nervously excited but trying to avoid being disappointed. It's a complex set of emotions.

 

If they can fix Floyd, they have 2 23-and-under guys who can fit in very nicely at the top of the rotation for the next decade or so. On paper, if you told me I could get 2 top-of-the-rotation guys, one a righty and one a lefty, for Garcia, I'd have been thrilled. The ONLY question is whether or not Floyd can turn it around.

 

If the organization is just grasping at straws here, then we'll wind up in trouble. But if they can find that kid some balls, then this deal will look really freaking good in a year or two.

[SoxHawk1980]

Hell, just think about what our rotation at Charlotte will look like next year. Broadway, Floyd, Gio, Phillipps, and player x (maybe Tracey or Haeger depending on that 11th bullpen spot).

I love it when a major league GM works hard to make the AAA team better.

 

If the Sox were a crappy team, then rebuilding by trading veterans for prospects would make sense. This team is one year from winning the WS and won 90 games last year. This team was ready to contend again and was likely to make it back to the playoffs. And he's having a fire sale which makes us worse in 2007 and set to contend in 2009...maybe.

[RockRaines]

Who's this imaginary 5th starter people keep saying we have? If we traded Garland, I only count 4 guys we can legitimately say should be starting.

Yeah, and if we trade Contreras and Vaz we only have 2, whats the point of bring up what ifs of stuff that isnt happening?

[WCSox]

Well, thanks for the memories Freddy. I only hope your 88 mph is still in style next year.

 

Apparently GMs around the league are aware of Freddy's diminishing skills as well. I was a big Freddy supporter earlier this year but when it became apparent that his velocity drop wasn't temporary, I jumped ship. It's too bad, because he's a gamer.

 

Still, I'm unpleasantly surprised that KW couldn't get more in return.

[fathom]

Yeah, and if we trade Contreras and Vaz we only have 2, whats the point of bring up what ifs of stuff that isnt happening?

 

Because at the time I posted that, everyone thought the Garland deal was done.

[RockRaines]

I love it when a major league GM works hard to make the AAA team better.

 

If the Sox were a crappy team, then rebuilding by trading veterans for prospects would make sense. This team is one year from winning the WS and won 90 games last year. This team was ready to contend again and was likely to make it back to the playoffs. And he's having a fire sale which makes us worse in 2007 and set to contend in 2009...maybe.

What fire sale? He traded a pitcher who we were going to lose to FA to make room for a younger, cheap starter who has the potential to have better results next year, and acquired 2 players who have the potential to be top of the rotation guys in the next year or two. That doesnt look like a firesale to me, it looks smart.

[SoxHawk1980]

Yeah, and if we trade Contreras and Vaz we only have 2, whats the point of bring up what ifs of stuff that isnt happening?

You are confident that more SP trades aren't happening? The Sox were at least working on a deal to trade Garland for prospects. Do you think KW is done shopping SP's? I don't.

[RockRaines]

Apparently GMs around the league are aware of Freddy's diminishing skills as well. I was a big Freddy supporter earlier this year but when it became apparent that his velocity drop wasn't temporary, I jumped ship. It's too bad, because he's a gamer.

 

Still, I'm unpleasantly surprised that KW couldn't get more in return.

Its not only his age, but he is a rent a player, Philly basically traded us two guys for the hope that Freddy may get them somewhere this year. When they dont make it again, they basically will be left with nothing.

 

You are confident that more SP trades aren't happening? The Sox were at least working on a deal to trade Garland for prospects. Do you think KW is done shopping SP's? I don't.

They were also working on deals to bring A-rod here, and Barry Bonds, and this guy, and that guy. Kenny is well aware that he needs 5 starters this year, and we just dealt a player that we wanted to get rid of. Maybe step away from the ledge and look at the big picture. This trade not only made our team better this year, it made us better for the next 5. It also freed up 10 million dollars that may be allocated for a player, or give us some room to sign Mark to an extension.

[SoxHawk1980]

What fire sale? He traded a pitcher who we were going to lose to FA to make room for a younger, cheap starter who has the potential to have better results next year, and acquired 2 players who have the potential to be top of the rotation guys in the next year or two. That doesnt look like a firesale to me, it looks smart.

You actually think this was a good trade??? He traded a quality SP for two decent prospects. Gio had a poor year in his first year in AA in 2006. He's nowhere near major league ready (think 2 or 3 years for his debut and then probably a year or two before he hits his stride, if ever). Floyd was a top prospect 3 YEARS AGO. And his value has dropped steadily since then. These guys aren't even blue chip prospects. Like all prospects, they are just maybes and not even great maybes at that.

 

This would be a decent trade for a rebuilding team who had essentially given up on 2007 already. I don't think KW should have given up on 2007.

[Harry Chappas]

Outside of their cups of coffee as major league starters what is the difference between Floyd and McCarthy. McCarthy wet himself facing major league hitters so did Floyd last year.

[thomsonmi]

You actually think this was a good trade??? He traded a quality SP for two decent prospects. Gio had a poor year in his first year in AA in 2006. He's nowhere near major league ready (think 2 or 3 years for his debut and then probably a year or two before he hits his stride, if ever). Floyd was a top prospect 3 YEARS AGO. And his value has dropped steadily since then. These guys aren't even blue chip prospects. Like all prospects, they are just maybes and not even great maybes at that.

 

This would be a decent trade for a rebuilding team who had essentially given up on 2007 already. I don't think KW should have given up on 2007.

 

 

I agree with Rock. This was a solid move. As usual here, hardly anyone is paying attention to the $10 million this trade freed up for other moves. Like when we traded CLee for Podsednik and then used the extra money gained from the trade to sign AJ, The Duke, and Iguchi. You can't ignore the money folks.

[CWSGuy406]

You actually think this was a good trade??? He traded a quality SP for two decent prospects. Gio had a poor year in his first year in AA in 2006. He's nowhere near major league ready (think 2 or 3 years for his debut and then probably a year or two before he hits his stride, if ever). Floyd was a top prospect 3 YEARS AGO. And his value has dropped steadily since then. These guys aren't even blue chip prospects. Like all prospects, they are just maybes and not even great maybes at that.

 

I'm taking information from someone who knows more about the both of us combined about both of these guys, but with Gio, he still kept the nasty K numbers. His home park is quite the HR haven, and Gio apparently pitched quite a bit of his innings at home this year, so that explains part of the HR spike. He's gotta harness his control a little bit, sure, but he's only 20. You'd be hard-pressed to find me five definitively better left-handed prospects than Gio.

 

And with Floyd, even Sickels still likes him after his poor 2006. Calls him a change of scenery guy. I know that's not going to instill a lot of confidence in you, but we're getting more than just two "decent" prospects here.

[YASNY]

I agree with Rock. This was a solid move. As usual here, hardly anyone is paying attention to the $10 million this trade freed up for other moves. Like when we traded CLee for Podsednik and then used the extra money gained from the trade to sign AJ, The Duke, and Iguchi. You can't ignore the money folks.

 

Sure they can. It allows them to b**** and moan ... as usual.

[southsideirish71]

You are confident that more SP trades aren't happening? The Sox were at least working on a deal to trade Garland for prospects. Do you think KW is done shopping SP's? I don't.

 

 

The one prospect is named Hirsch who already pitched a bit last year, and was scheduled to be the Astro 5th starter this year. He is one of the best young pitchers in baseball, has a blazing fastball and is 6'8 and 250 pounds.

 

Lets stop acting like this is just some conspiracy to ruin the sox. KW probably wants to win more than you do. If he is making a trade its because he believes it makes us better.

[thomsonmi]

I don't think KW should have given up on 2007.

 

 

KW has not given up on 2007. I promise you that.

[SoxHawk1980]

They were also working on deals to bring A-rod here, and Barry Bonds, and this guy, and that guy. Kenny is well aware that he needs 5 starters this year, and we just dealt a player that we wanted to get rid of.

Yes, he's well aware that we need 5 starters, and at the same time he's clearly willing to trade off more than one of our starting rotation. He was negotiating to trade away Garland AFTER already trading away Garcia. I think you'd be surprised if he traded away another starter for prospects. Don't be.

Maybe step away from the ledge and look at the big picture. This trade not only made our team better this year, it made us better for the next 5.

The trade made us better this year? Please stop drinking the kool-aid. It has gone to your head. Neither Floyd nor Gio are as good as Garcia. Not close. We don't know if they ever will be. Prospects are prospects. Many prospects don't pan out. And these guys aren't exactly blue chip prospects. Floyd's star has been falling for years. Gio is yet to succeed at any level higher than A-ball. They may do well, but they may not. This trade certainly doesn't definitely help us for the next 5 years.

It also freed up 10 million dollars that may be allocated for a player, or give us some room to sign Mark to an extension.

We'll see what if anything they do with that $10M. I'll give them credit if they use it well. We'll see. But clearly, for now, this trade was definitely awful.

[RockRaines]

You actually think this was a good trade??? He traded a quality SP for two decent prospects. Gio had a poor year in his first year in AA in 2006. He's nowhere near major league ready (think 2 or 3 years for his debut and then probably a year or two before he hits his stride, if ever). Floyd was a top prospect 3 YEARS AGO. And his value has dropped steadily since then. These guys aren't even blue chip prospects. Like all prospects, they are just maybes and not even great maybes at that.

 

This would be a decent trade for a rebuilding team who had essentially given up on 2007 already. I don't think KW should have given up on 2007.

Yes I think it was. We needed to but BMAC in the rotation, at this point he is better than freddy and was wasted in the pen last year. Because of this pressing need we had to deal someone. Freddy is a FA at the end of the season and would have been a mistake to sign to an extension. We just got Floyd, who was a top prospect 2 years ago, but fizzled a little at the major league level. In baseball circles he is though of as a possible late bloomer somewhat like Garland was. His only major flaw is control, which cooper seems to be good at fixing. We also got Gio back, who immediately becomes our top pitching prospect once again, and sets us up for his emergence in 2 years. The phillies received a rent a player who will leave after this season or resign for around 16-17 million a year. Not only that but we saved 10 million bucks that can immediately be plugged back into the team. Is the team better than yesterday? Yes. Does this trade help us in the future, yes it does. Sounds like a plan to me.

[thomsonmi]

Sure they can. It allows them to b**** and moan ... as usual.

 

 

[SoxHawk1980]

Sure they can. It allows them to b**** and moan ... as usual.

And others will reject any criticism of this organization. No matter how bad of a trade KW makes, some fans will work really hard to spin it into a positive. I know this one took a hell of a lot of work.

[CWSGuy406]

SH1980, explain to me how this move makes us WORSE for 2007. I don't think it makes us better for 2007, but I can't see how you can call it worse. For just this upcoming season, it's a lateral move -- you're replacing Garcia with BMac, and bullpen BMac with Haeger/Floyd.

 

Unless you think that BMac is going to tank, which would be pretty outlandish.

[RockRaines]

The one prospect is named Hirsch who already pitched a bit last year, and was scheduled to be the Astro 5th starter this year. He is one of the best young pitchers in baseball, has a blazing fastball and is 6'8 and 250 pounds.

 

Lets stop acting like this is just some conspiracy to ruin the sox. KW probably wants to win more than you do. If he is making a trade its because he believes it makes us better.

Man Hirsch is so good, that trade would have hurt us a bit this year, but REALLY would have paid off in the enxt 5.

[YASNY]

And others will reject any criticism of this organization. No matter how bad of a trade KW makes, some fans will work really hard to spin it into a positive. I know this one took a hell of a lot of work.

 

There's a huge difference between 'any criticism' and constant criticism.

[Balta1701]

SH1980, explain to me how this move makes us WORSE for 2007. I don't think it makes us better for 2007, but I can't see how you can call it worse. For just this upcoming season, it's a lateral move -- you're replacing Garcia with BMac, and bullpen BMac with Haeger/Floyd.

 

Unless you think that BMac is going to tank, which would be pretty outlandish.

With the glimpses we've gotten of what BMac can do in the starting rotation, I think just getting him in there makes us better.

[RockRaines]

And others will reject any criticism of this organization. No matter how bad of a trade KW makes, some fans will work really hard to spin it into a positive. I know this one took a hell of a lot of work.

Or some fans just dont look at the big picture of the game called baseball. Even if KW would have broken Freddy's legs and inserted BMAC into the rotation, our team would have improved. Trading a free-agent-to-be who had declining skills and no place in the rotation for 2 young affordable arms, was a nice move.