Garcia to Philly for Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez

[SoxHawk1980]

The one prospect is named Hirsch who already pitched a bit last year, and was scheduled to be the Astro 5th starter this year. He is one of the best young pitchers in baseball, has a blazing fastball and is 6'8 and 250 pounds.

 

Lets stop acting like this is just some conspiracy to ruin the sox. KW probably wants to win more than you do. If he is making a trade its because he believes it makes us better.

Of course KW wants to win. That doesn't mean that every trade he makes is actually a good one. Sometimes bad trades are made. It happens. The Garcia trade was one. The rumored Garland trade would have been one too. Neither of those trades would have made us better in 2007. Maybe 2008. More likely 2009. It is too soon to give up on this team and rebuild.

[RockRaines]

With the glimpses we've gotten of what BMac can do in the starting rotation, I think just getting him in there makes us better.

I couldnt agree more.

[SoxHawk1980]

KW has not given up on 2007. I promise you that.

He certainly looks like he's building for the future more than for the present. The Garcia deal sure as hell doesn't make us better in 2007. It makes us worse.

[southsideirish71]

He certainly looks like he's building for the future more than for the present. The Garcia deal sure as hell doesn't make us better in 2007. It makes us worse.

 

So put on your GM hat, what would of you done. And if you talk about signing Garcia for a long term deal, take the hat off because you are fired.

[RockRaines]

So put on your GM hat, what would of you done. And if you talk about signing Garcia for a long term deal, take the hat off because you are fired.

He doesnt understand that BMAC in the rotation > Garcia in the rotation

 

 

Keith law's take:

 

 

The White Sox added some younger pitching to their system, one a solid prospect, one a tarnished prospect who's a nice high-beta flyer. Gio Gonzalez -- technically the player to be named right now, although it will be announced officially after the Rule 5 draft on Thursday morning -- is the solid prospect, and one with whom the White Sox are familiar, having drafted him in 2004 and traded him to the Phils last winter for Jim Thome. Gonzalez has an average fastball but two good offspeed pitches, a mid-70s curve with good two-plane break and a straight changeup on which he maintains his arm speed very well. Still just 21 years old, Gonzalez's primary negatives are his control, which was poor all year, and his poise; he rattles easily when something goes wrong behind him, and is prone to losing the strike zone at inopportune moments. Given his age, throwing arm, and quality offspeed stuff, though, he's a very good prospect and a good return on Garcia.

 

Gavin Floyd is a good lottery ticket for the White Sox to play. The fourth pick in the vaunted 2001 draft, Floyd's career went off the rails when the Phils rushed him to the majors in 2004. Floyd's calling card is a near-12-6 curveball with a big late break, with a solid-average fastball and an average changeup. His command, never great, has evaporated each time he's come up to the big leagues, and this year his control took a hit as well. He turns 24 in January and has a good arm; that's the sort of second guy you always want to acquire in a trade, especially when a change of scenery appears to be part of the solution.

[Balta1701]

And others will reject any criticism of this organization. No matter how bad of a trade KW makes, some fans will work really hard to spin it into a positive. I know this one took a hell of a lot of work.

It's altogether too easy, on the other hand, to criticize a deal which does not bring back an immediate return, because it is difficult to evaluate such a deal without including time.

 

People are going to watch Garcia next year and scream about what he's doing. He's gone on to the senior tour, he's added another pitch, he gets to maybe recover his fastball. He could win 20 games in that league with Ryan Howard backing him up.

 

But this deal is made so that 2, 3, 4 years from now, then the White Sox are better. We may be better next year too, that's entirely up to Brandon (and I think he's up to the challenge), but this deal entirely hinges on what Floyd and Gio can turn into. So it's easy to criticize now, but a couple years down the road, this deal could look really good, and no matter what, it's hard for it to look ungodly bad.

 

If both Gio and Floyd flop, then what happens? The White Sox saved $10 million in salary and lost their chance on a first rounder and a sandwich pick in 2008, and maybe find that they have a few more pieces to use in other trades.

[southsider2k5]

There's a huge difference between 'any criticism' and constant criticism.

 

I'd say "perpetual", but hey, to each his own.

[SoxHawk1980]

Yes I think it was. We needed to but BMAC in the rotation, at this point he is better than freddy and was wasted in the pen last year. Because of this pressing need we had to deal someone. Freddy is a FA at the end of the season and would have been a mistake to sign to an extension.

Freddy was going to be traded and BMac into the rotation regardless. It is just a question of what you get for him. In this market, of course he could have gotten more than two good but not great prospects.

We just got Floyd, who was a top prospect 2 years ago, but fizzled a little at the major league level. In baseball circles he is though of as a possible late bloomer somewhat like Garland was. His only major flaw is control, which cooper seems to be good at fixing.

Yeah, he is a decent prospect with some upside and downside. Same with Gio, who is an even more distant prospect.

Is the team better than yesterday? Yes. Does this trade help us in the future, yes it does. Sounds like a plan to me.

You are drunk on the kook-aid. You worked really hard to spin this horrible trade into something positive. We're worse than before the trade. And these prospects are certainly not sure things for the future.

 

There's a huge difference between 'any criticism' and constant criticism.

It is similar to the difference between supporting your team and fawning over every move the organization makes, regardless of how good or bad they are.

[RockRaines]

You are drunk on the kook-aid. You worked really hard to spin this horrible trade into something positive. We're worse than before the trade. And these prospects are certainly not sure things for the future.

First of all, I never drink the Sox Kool Aid so you can stop with that being your only defense for your position. Please provide me with the reasons how we are worse than we were before the trade.

[YASNY]

I'd say "perpetual", but hey, to each his own.

 

That works for me.

[SoxHawk1980]

So put on your GM hat, what would of you done. And if you talk about signing Garcia for a long term deal, take the hat off because you are fired.

I would have traded Garcia for some player or players who would have helped the team now. A pitcher of Garcia's quality who is as inexpensive as he is in 2007 is worth a hell of a lot in this market. KW could and should have moved Garcia for more than prospects. He could have easily gotten an OF upgrade and a decent prospect.

[Chisoxfn]

Chicago got a wonderful pitcher in Gio Gonzalez. I'm from Reading, Pennsylvania, which is where he pitched all season, and he was the most entertaining pitcher the r-phils had. I'm sad to see him go but I'm glad he's goin to the White Sox. I guarentee he will be in the majors either later this season or the start of next season.

Welcome aboard...thanks for your input, always good to hear from someone who got to watch Gio pitch. In Freddy's case if he comes back with his old velocity you guys have one of the best pitchers in the NL on your hands. However, if he doesn't...you'll have a guy who flashes signs a couple games while at other times gets absolutely lit up.

 

That said when on, Freddy is fun to watch.

[RockRaines]

I would have traded Garcia for some player or players who would have helped the team now. A pitcher of Garcia's quality who is as inexpensive as he is in 2007 is worth a hell of a lot in this market. KW could and should have moved Garcia for more than prospects. He could have easily gotten an OF upgrade and a decent prospect.

From who then? Since you were at the winter meetings, tell me who this deal was that KW didnt take?

 

Dont you understand that Freddy is only affordable on a team for ONE year, dont you understand that?

[SoxHawk1980]

First of all, I never drink the Sox Kool Aid so you can stop with that being your only defense for your position. Please provide me with the reasons how we are worse than we were before the trade.

1. Less talent on the team (and organization now).

2. BMac in his first full season in the majors won't do better than Garcia would have done (about the same, I think).

3. When a SP gets injured (and this happens to basically every team, every year), we'll have no major league ready replacement to fill in, because we've lost our SP depth.

[CWSGuy406]

It makes us worse.

 

You're a broken record. How does it make us 'worse' for 2007? Is McCarthy going to fall off the earth as a starter?

[RockRaines]

Welcome aboard...thanks for your input, always good to hear from someone who got to watch Gio pitch. In Freddy's case if he comes back with his old velocity you guys have one of the best pitchers in the NL on your hands. However, if he doesn't...you'll have a guy who flashes signs a couple games while at other times gets absolutely lit up.

 

That said when on, Freddy is fun to watch.

I wonder how focused Freddy will be not being on a serious contender, pitching in the minor leagues of the MLB. If he couldnt get himself up for the competition in the ALC, will he EVER be able to in the NL?

[CWSGuy406]

3. When a SP gets injured (and this happens to basically every team, every year), we'll have no major league ready replacement to fill in, because we've lost our SP depth.

 

Haegar? If it's past June, Broadway? Potentially even Floyd himself? Find me all these other teams that 'sport' this enormous depth that you speak of.

[SoxHawk1980]

From who then? Since you were at the winter meetings, tell me who this deal was that KW didnt take?

 

Dont you understand that Freddy is only affordable on a team for ONE year, dont you understand that?

I could list the various rumors, but I won't. Suffice to say that numerous reports and just plain common sense when viewing that worse pitchers were garnering much more money tells you that Garcia was very valuable. And yes, it was for one season, but for a contending team, a full season of a good SP for relatively cheap money is worth a lot.

[RockRaines]

1. Less talent on the team (and organization now).

2. BMac in his first full season in the majors won't do better than Garcia would have done (about the same, I think).

3. When a SP gets injured (and this happens to basically every team, every year), we'll have no major league ready replacement to fill in, because we've lost our SP depth.

So you are hanging your opinion of the trade on the fact that BMAC wont do any better than Freddy did for us?

[SoxHawk1980]

Haegar? If it's past June, Broadway? Potentially even Floyd himself? Find me all these other teams that 'sport' this enormous depth that you speak of.

Haegar is major league ready? He certainly didn't look like it in his one major league start. We have no idea if he's major league ready. I have no faith in him. Broadway? I don't think he is anywhere close to major league ready. He may be great one day, but 2007 is way too soon for him. Floyd? How much major league suckage does this guy have to show to illustrate that he is not major league ready? The depth that we used to have was BMac.

[fathom]

I wonder how focused Freddy will be not being on a serious contender, pitching in the minor leagues of the MLB. If he couldnt get himself up for the competition in the ALC, will he EVER be able to in the NL?

 

I have no doubt Freddy will be extremely focused in his contract year.

[YASNY]

Haegar is major league ready? He certainly didn't look like it in his one major league start. We have no idea if he's major league ready. I have no faith in him. Broadway? I don't think he is anywhere close to major league ready. He may be great one day, but 2007 is way too soon for him. Floyd? How much major league suckage does this guy have to show to illustrate that he is not major league ready? The depth that we used to have was BMac.

 

What did you think of Garland after say, 2004? Was he major league ready? Had he proved he could be a winner in the majors?

[SoxHawk1980]

So you are hanging your opinion of the trade on the fact that BMAC wont do any better than Freddy did for us?

Not solely. BMac was going to be in the rotation regardless. One of the starting 5 was going to be traded. So the quality of the trade is determined by how much you get for that traded SP. We got about as little as we could possibly get. KW could and should have gotten more.

[RockRaines]

I could list the various rumors, but I won't. Suffice to say that numerous reports and just plain common sense when viewing that worse pitchers were garnering much more money tells you that Garcia was very valuable. And yes, it was for one season, but for a contending team, a full season of a good SP for relatively cheap money is worth a lot.

Go ahead and list the "rumors" I can make up a few myself if you like. And yes, pitcher were garnering money on the free agent market, so is makes prospects and cheap pitching more valuable, especially when locked up for several years, so what exactly was your point there? That we received fair value because we got cheap young pitching in return?

 

I wish you were our GM, so we could have held on to all of our pitchers all offseason then only getting some picks in return which may pay off in 5 years, but most likely wont, that would have been AWESOME!!! Oh and in the same season, most likely ruining BMAC for yet another year!!! Wooooo!!!

[RX Bandits]

1. Less talent on the team (and organization now).

2. BMac in his first full season in the majors won't do better than Garcia would have done (about the same, I think).

3. When a SP gets injured (and this happens to basically every team, every year), we'll have no major league ready replacement to fill in, because we've lost our SP depth.

 

Huh? explain the logic of Mccarthy wont do better that Garcia...but if someone goes down he can pitch? its like saying he sucks....but hes a top notch fill-in if someone gets hurt?

 

as for talent, I must have a boatload of talent cause I can throw 85 MPH. Using the word "talent" is a cop-out for really saying "i hate this deal because i know nothing about the two prospects in return."

 

I for one, like the move. Remember people, the market to get an outfielder sucked as well, and I bet teams were asking for a lot for a power hitting OF. This move helps us down the line.