Garcia to Philly for Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez

[jackie hayes]

Haegar is major league ready? He certainly didn't look like it in his one major league start. We have no idea if he's major league ready. I have no faith in him. Broadway? I don't think he is anywhere close to major league ready. He may be great one day, but 2007 is way too soon for him. Floyd? How much major league suckage does this guy have to show to illustrate that he is not major league ready? The depth that we used to have was BMac.

I guess your answer would be, one bad outing.

[southsideirish71]

I would have traded Garcia for some player or players who would have helped the team now. A pitcher of Garcia's quality who is as inexpensive as he is in 2007 is worth a hell of a lot in this market. KW could and should have moved Garcia for more than prospects. He could have easily gotten an OF upgrade and a decent prospect.

 

 

Who is this player that you would of traded for. How much value does a 1 year rental offer a team.

[YASNY]

I guess your answer would be, one bad outing.

 

Touche'!

[SoxHawk1980]

What did you think of Garland after say, 2004? Was he major league ready? Had he proved he could be a winner in the majors?

After 2004, Garland had had 3 1/2 full seasons in the majors and looked like about a 4.50 ERA pitcher, a decent, reliable #3 starter.

[RockRaines]

Huh? explain the logic of Mccarthy wont do better that Garcia...but if someone goes down he can pitch? its like saying he sucks....but hes a top notch fill-in if someone gets hurt?

 

as for talent, I must have a boatload of talent cause I can throw 85 MPH. Using the word "talent" is a cop-out for really saying "i hate this deal because i know nothing about the two prospects in return."

 

I for one, like the move. Remember people, the market to get an outfielder sucked as well, and I bet teams were asking for a lot for a power hitting OF. This move helps us down the line.

Great post BTW.

 

I think making an informed decision about the situation is alot more effective than just ranting.

[SoxHawk1980]

DYING to know how you got this info. What room did you stay in at Orlando? Where do get all this info?

Common sense. I love how everyone hated the trade when it was announced, and then 12 hours later, many have convinced themselves that it was a good deal, or at least the best possible deal KW could have gotten.

 

This trade fits into KW's and JR's new philosophy to get younger and cheaper. Rebuild immediately. I think he liked this trade offer because it involved cheap prospects that help for the future, but not for the upcoming season -- not because it was the trade offer that involved the most talent.

 

I guess your answer would be, one bad outing.

Nice. I'm just saying we don't know if Haeger is major league ready. On the other hand, the available evidence shows that Floyd definitely isn't ready.

[southsideirish71]

Common sense. I love how everyone hated the trade when it was announced, and then 12 hours later, many have convinced themselves that it was a good deal, or at least the best possible deal KW could have gotten.

 

This trade fits into KW's and JR's new philosophy to get younger and cheaper. Rebuild immediately. I think he liked this trade offer because it involved cheap prospects that help for the future, but not for the upcoming season -- not because it was the trade offer that involved the most talent.

 

 

I didnt hate the deal. I hated going to the cell last year with Garcia making a bunch of starts on my 13 game plan, and constantly watch out for flying homers hitting the poor spectators in the OF. I hated watching the radar gun thinking it was broke, Nope Eric Bedard 94 mph, Freddy 86mph.

[RockRaines]

I repeat

 

BMAC in the rotation>Garcia in the rotation.

 

We get better immediately this year. ANd with the spects, next year. Its pretty black and white people.

[watchtower41]

There's only one way to look at this trade.....

 

 

addition by subtraction. Our rotation WILL be better next year. Thanks for the good times Freddy, but the bad way outweighed the good. From being drunk and hungover on his first start this year against the Indians on ring day, to "not caring" about runners on first base, because they "throw off his concentration" He has never been a team guy, say what you will about what we got for him, bottom line is, he is not worth much for one year....nevermind the fact that we won't be able to rate this trade until a few years from now... we may have made out as the much bigger winner here. There's a lot of people on here with foggy minds about or player's values and that was quite evident after everyone screamed about the Cotts trade. Freddy and his bong were certainly not going to be back with us in 2007, its tiime to stop falling in love with our players around here.

[RockRaines]

I didnt hate the deal. I hated going to the cell last year with Garcia making a bunch of starts on my 13 game plan, and constantly watch out for flying homers hitting the poor spectators in the OF. I hated watching the radar gun thinking it was broke, Nope Eric Bedard 94 mph, Freddy 86mph.

Man, I saw him give up so many long ones this year, it was unreal.

[fathom]

I repeat

 

BMAC in the rotation>Garcia in the rotation.

 

We get better immediately this year. ANd with the spects, next year. Its pretty black and white people.

 

I wish KW would keep the starting rotation as it is right now, and find us a back-up catcher and starting outfielder.

[RX Bandits]

Common sense. I love how everyone hated the trade when it was announced, and then 12 hours later, many have convinced themselves that it was a good deal, or at least the best possible deal KW could have gotten.

 

This trade fits into KW's and JR's new philosophy to get younger and cheaper. Rebuild immediately. I think he liked this trade offer because it involved cheap prospects that help for the future, but not for the upcoming season -- not because it was the trade offer that involved the most talent.

Nice. I'm just saying we don't know if Haeger is major league ready. On the other hand, the available evidence shows that Floyd definitely isn't ready.

Kenny said is was the best deal available. I don't understand why people dont trust him/ want him to make so many moves. People, we're not the cubs. We won 90 games. Although it did not translate into a division title like we all expected, kenny doesn't have to wheel and deal BECAUSE THERE ARE FEW HOLES TO FILL! I think Kenny has done a fantastic job of not overpaying. Really, Pods got about 2 million for one year, while 55 year old dave roberts got 14 million over 3 years. No thanks.

[fathom]

Kenny said is was the best deal available. I don't understand why people dont trust him/ want him to make so many moves. People, we're not the cubs. We won 90 games. Although it did not translate into a division title like we all expected, kenny doesn't have to wheel and deal BECAUSE THERE ARE FEW HOLES TO FILL! I think Kenny has done a fantastic job of not overpaying. Really, Pods got about 2 million for one year, while 55 year old dave roberts got 14 million over 3 years. No thanks.

 

We have no back-up catcher, horrific left fielder, and bad hitting players in CF and SS with no legit back-up. There are holes on this team, don't kid yourself. We also are stuck having 3 guys in the bullpen that we can be confident can get guys out. KW hasn't improved our bullpen like he said he would.

[RX Bandits]

There's a lot of people on here with foggy minds about or player's values and that was quite evident after everyone screamed about the Cotts trade. Freddy and his bong were certainly not going to be back with us in 2007, its tiime to stop falling in love with our players around here.

Amen thank you. Whether it is Rowand or Cotts or Garcia, Williams doesnt pull the "2005 world series champs card" with players from that team, unlike 95% of this board.

[SoxHawk1980]

Huh? explain the logic of Mccarthy wont do better that Garcia...but if someone goes down he can pitch? its like saying he sucks....but hes a top notch fill-in if someone gets hurt?

Ok, I'll explain it. I think McCarthy will have a similar year to the one Garcia had in 2006. About a 4.50 ERA and other similar stats. I think McCarthy will end up being better than that, but pitchers usually don't "arrive" in their first full season in the majors. So, he'll have a decent season, like Garcia did, but not great. That would make for fine depth. That's a hell of a #6 starter. Now if a starter goes down, you basically have to go with a big question mark. Is any other pitcher ready to 5 innings and give up 2 or 3 runs in a start? Certainly no one I have confidence in. Just a lot of wishful thinking.

as for talent, I must have a boatload of talent cause I can throw 85 MPH. Using the word "talent" is a cop-out for really saying "i hate this deal because i know nothing about the two prospects in return."

I know what I've read about them and seen of them. I also know that they are just prospects. Most prospects never pan out. Gio is far from major league ready and no one knows if he ever will be. Such is the nature of prospects who have only gotten as high as the AA level (and not done very well there). He's a big question mark. Floyd was a top prospect whose star has fallen each of the last 3 years. He has talent and hasn't been able to ever put it together in the majors. He's a big question mark. So you've got a solid #3 major leauge SP who is dependable at that level and two big question marks. Clearly there is more major league talent, particularly this year in the former.

 

 

Man, I saw him give up so many long ones this year, it was unreal.

How many long ones do you think McCarthy will give up?

 

I wish KW would keep the starting rotation as it is right now, and find us a back-up catcher and starting outfielder.

Don't you see that a couple decent pitcher prospects helps this team immeasurably????

[RX Bandits]

We have no back-up catcher, horrific left fielder, and bad hitting players in CF and SS with no legit back-up. There are holes on this team, don't kid yourself. We also are stuck having 3 guys in the bullpen that we can be confident can get guys out. KW hasn't improved our bullpen like he said he would.

LOL you're worried about middle relievers...who are the worst players on a major league baseball team? I think Ardsma is a solid upgrade from cotts. I am also not concered abut a back-up catcher, with it being december and all. As for the LF position, I said it a couple a posts ago, Pods contract > Dave Robers contract. Pods is only around for a year and at least you know what you're going to get out of him. I'm not worried about CF, in fact, I believe Anderson is better than Rowand. It was Andersons first full season, I think we're expecting too much out of him. As for Uribe, All I want is a .240-.260 hitter and decent defense. Really there is not a SS on the market worth getting.

[The Ginger Kid]

Well, thanks for the memories Freddy. I only hope your 88 mph is still in style next year.

What about the 92 mph fastball he featured in September when he appeared to get stronger?

 

This is a terrible trade. We could've gotten Figgins for Freddy straight up and even that would've been bad but not nearly as bad as this.

[fathom]

LOL you're worried about middle relievers...who are the worst players on a major league baseball team? I think Ardsma is a solid upgrade from cotts. I am also not concered abut a back-up catcher, with it being december and all. As for the LF position, I said it a couple a posts ago, Pods contract > Dave Robers contract. Pods is only around for a year and at least you know what you're going to get out of him. I'm not worried about CF, in fact, I believe Anderson is better than Rowand. It was Andersons first full season, I think we're expecting too much out of him. As for Uribe, All I want is a .240-.260 hitter and decent defense. Really there is not a SS on the market worth getting.

 

Great, so we're going into the season with the same issues that really hurt us last season. Back-up catcher is very important, especially with the great LHP in our division. It almost seems like it would have been better if we went 81-81 last year if we weren't going to make the playoffs. Too much nonsense about how we won 90 games, etc., and didn't make the playoffs. WE WERE AN AWFUL TEAM DURING THE 2ND HALF OF THE SEASON.

[RX Bandits]

Ok, I'll explain it. I think McCarthy will have a similar year to the one Garcia had in 2006. About a 4.50

 

I know what I've read about them and seen of them. I also know that they are just prospects. Most prospects never pan out. Gio is far from major league ready and no one knows if he ever will be. Such is the nature of prospects who have only gotten as high as the AA level (and not done very well there). He's a big question mark. Floyd was a top prospect whose star has fallen each of the last 3 years. He has talent and hasn't been able to ever put it together in the majors. He's a big question mark. So you've got a solid #3 major leauge SP who is dependable at that level and two big question marks. Clearly there is more major league talent, particularly this year in the former.

How many long ones do you think McCarthy will give up?

Don't you see that a couple decent pitcher prospects helps this team immeasurably????

Nobody knows if Garcia will ever throw 90+. Nobody really knows anything. Hell Garcia's arm could fall off tomorrow. I dont understand how McCarthy is going to get a full season in being a 6th starter. My point is he has to take his licks sometime. Better now than later. Freddy is just a guy. Really he will give you a brilliant start every month or so then go back to being bad.

[SoxHawk1980]

LOL you're worried about middle relievers...who are the worst players on a major league baseball team?

Actually I think that he very clearly pointed out that his top four concerns on this team are the LF, CF, SS, back-up catcher. I think middle relief is a relevant #5 concern.

[The Ginger Kid]

I repeat

 

BMAC in the rotation>Garcia in the rotation.

 

We get better immediately this year. ANd with the spects, next year. Its pretty black and white people.

Freddy won 17 games. BMac will have to have one helluva first full year as a starter to top that.

[daa84]

What about the 92 mph fastball he featured in September when he appeared to get stronger?

 

This is a terrible trade. We could've gotten Figgins for Freddy straight up and even that would've been bad but not nearly as bad as this.

thats crazy......floyd and gio > figgins....imo

[SoxHawk1980]

This is a terrible trade. We could've gotten Figgins for Freddy straight up and even that would've been bad but not nearly as bad as this.

Very well said.

[RX Bandits]

Great, so we're going into the season with the same issues that really hurt us last season. Back-up catcher is very important, especially with the great LHP in our division. It almost seems like it would have been better if we went 81-81 last year if we weren't going to make the playoffs. Too much nonsense about how we won 90 games, etc., and didn't make the playoffs. WE WERE AN AWFUL TEAM DURING THE 2ND HALF OF THE SEASON.

I'm not saying they're not issues, im saying its way too early to be b****ing at kenny for not getting a back-up catcher. People dont understand that being a GM is like a chess match. You're not going to fill every hole in two weeks. I dont understand how Brian Anderson killed us last year. He hit .300 the second half.

[SoxHawk1980]

Nobody knows if Garcia will ever throw 90+. Nobody really knows anything. Hell Garcia's arm could fall off tomorrow. I dont understand how McCarthy is going to get a full season in being a 6th starter. My point is he has to take his licks sometime. Better now than later. Freddy is just a guy. Really he will give you a brilliant start every month or so then go back to being bad.

Yeah, I guess BMac has to take his licks sometime. And now he's going to take them in 2007. Therefore, since KW didn't acquire anything that helps the team in 2007, and since BMac is going to be "taking his licks" this year, this trade didn't improve the team in 2007.