Garcia to Philly for Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez

[fathom]

I'm not saying they're not issues, im saying its way too early to be b****ing at kenny for not getting a back-up catcher. People dont understand that being a GM is like a chess match. You're not going to fill every hole in two weeks. I dont understand how Brian Anderson killed us last year. He hit .300 the second half.

 

Brian Anderson sucked last year offensively, there's no other way to put it. I was clamoring for Ozzie to start him every day in CF, but he was not a contributor.

[RX Bandits]

What about the 92 mph fastball he featured in September when he appeared to get stronger?

 

This is a terrible trade. We could've gotten Figgins for Freddy straight up and even that would've been bad but not nearly as bad as this.

Figgins is a black scott podsednick who is really fast, but not necessarily a base stealer who has little upside. The two prospects have a greater upside, and they are PITCHERS.

[SoxHawk1980]

thats crazy......floyd and gio > figgins....imo

We could have at least gotten Figgins + an ok prospect for Garcia. Figgins + an ok prospect >> Gio + Floyd. Plus the Figgins deal would have helped us this year, whereas the Floyd deal doesn't help us at all this year.

[YASNY]

If we had traded Garcia for Figgens straight up, then I would have been screaming. That's nuckin' futs!

[RX Bandits]

Yeah, I guess BMac has to take his licks sometime. And now he's going to take them in 2007. Therefore, since KW didn't acquire anything that helps the team in 2007, and since BMac is going to be "taking his licks" this year, this trade didn't improve the team in 2007.

but even you said Brandon has to start sometime. So when 2008? After Freddy leaves and we get nothing in return? I dont understand this BRANDON HAS TO GET EXPERIENCE but we cant make room for him in the rotation!!!! Look its December, we still have 2 1/2 months until spring training, plenty of action can, and will go down between now and then.

[fathom]

Figgins is a black scott podsednick who is really fast, but not necessarily a base stealer who has little upside. The two prospects have a greater upside, and they are PITCHERS.

 

Chone has stolen 114 bases over the last two years, and he DOESN'T have the injury issue that Pods has. Chone also uses his speed to hit a lot more triples than Pods.

[SoxHawk1980]

Figgins is a black scott podsednick who is really fast, but not necessarily a base stealer who has little upside. The two prospects have a greater upside, and they are PITCHERS.

Figgins is a Podsednik with clearly better stats. Better in basically every stat, and a much better base stealer. And 2007 is a year when the Sox should contend for the playoffs. You don't make trades to make your team worse in the short-term when you're trying to contend.

 

And yes, those prospects are pitchers, and that does have value. But do you know what the failure rate is for pitching prospects?

[RX Bandits]

Brian Anderson sucked last year offensively, there's no other way to put it. I was clamoring for Ozzie to start him every day in CF, but he was not a contributor.

not everyone is going to hit .300/20 hrs/80rbi's

 

I think Anderson's glove saved a lot of runs last year, especially with two slow corner OF's

[aboz56]

I'm not writing Gavin Floyd off just yet.

 

I'll wait and see what Cooper can do with him before passing judgement.

 

I remember hearing people say, that's all we got for Borchard when we stole Thornton from Seattle for him. Same applies to the Cotts to the Cubs deal, which right now doesn't look great.

 

I'm gonna give KW and Cooper a pass and put my trust in them that they think Floyd can develop into something solid.

 

And I'm thrilled to have Gio back, he's probably our top pitching prospect.

 

Garcia was going to be gone after 2007 and with the draft picks we would have gotten, I guarantee we wouldn't have netted two prospects like Floyd and Gio.

[fathom]

not everyone is going to hit .300/20 hrs/80rbi's

 

I think Anderson's glove saved a lot of runs last year, especially with two slow corner OF's

 

I wouldn't mind Anderson in CF if we could upgrade our LF position.

[SoxHawk1980]

but even you said Brandon has to start sometime. So when 2008? After Freddy leaves and we get nothing in return? I dont understand this BRANDON HAS TO GET EXPERIENCE but we cant make room for him in the rotation!!!! Look its December, we still have 2 1/2 months until spring training, plenty of action can, and will go down between now and then.

I never said McCarthy shouldn't start. I never said Garcia shouldn't be traded. But KW could and should have gotten more for him in this market. And KW should have gotten something in that trade that helped the major league club improve. He could have at least filled a need on the major league club somewhere.

 

Yes, there is much more left in the offseason. But right now this trade isn't good. It is only defensible if KW later does something to spin those prospects into something really good or if he spends that money on a good upgrade. We'll see. I don't have blind faith in KW.

[knightni]

so what are they going to do with the $10 mil?

Barry. Lamar. Bonds.

[RX Bandits]

Figgins is a Podsednik with clearly better stats. Better in basically every stat, and a much better base stealer. And 2007 is a year when the Sox should contend for the playoffs. You don't make trades to make your team worse in the short-term when you're trying to contend.

 

And yes, those prospects are pitchers, and that does have value. But do you know what the failure rate is for pitching prospects?

Im not Figgins sucks, I did not word my sentence correctly. I guess what I mean is he wll steal a bunch of bases and can play a bunch of positions with a medocore glove at best.

 

As for 2007, what evidance says Brandon will be bad? ON PAPER, it is a downgrade, but thats why you play the games. Furthermore, for 2008 and beyond WHEN WE STILL WILL BE CONTENDING FOR A DIVISION TITLE a lot of our current rotation will be leaving via free agency. It helps the team win down the road whether its through the actual players themselves or other players they can bring as b/c of their trade value

[ChiSox9]

I just dont understand a majority of the posters on this board. All last season we hear rants and raves about "Trade Garcia" "McCarthy in the Rotation" Now, McCarthy IS in the rotation... how did this team lose ground on where they were last year?? Even though Freddy won 18 games you all wanted him gone.. and claim McCarthy is the next coming of Christ. I dont think the issue is Garcia being gone but more so what KW got for him. I hate to break it to you all BUT a 30 yr old pitcher making $10M in his contract year with this market is not 1) going to settle for an extension 2) is not going to bring you a Vernon Wells. I hate to say it but ... Freddy was IMHO the 2nd to last pitcher in our staff, KW got what he could for a guy that would walk next season. So lets say this, the trade never happens, we loss Freddy after the season and we get WHAT?? 2 draft picks??? I would rather have a former top prospect with MLB experience and a lefty with good minor league experience than... Joe Blow and John Doe (only draft picks)!

 

Also keep in mind: Freddy CANT hold on a runner to save his SOUL!

Edited December 7, 2006 by ChiSox9

[YASNY]

I never said McCarthy shouldn't start. I never said Garcia shouldn't be traded. But KW could and should have gotten more for him in this market. And KW should have gotten something in that trade that helped the major league club improve. He could have at least filled a need on the major league club somewhere.

 

Yes, there is much more left in the offseason. But right now this trade isn't good. It is only defensible if KW later does something to spin those prospects into something really good or if he spends that money on a good upgrade. We'll see. I don't have blind faith in KW.

 

No s***? I'm flabbergasted!

[fathom]

I just dont understand a majority of the posters on this board. All last season we hear rants and raves about "Trade Garcia" "McCarthy in the Rotation" Now, McCarthy IS in the rotation... how did this team lose ground on where they were last year?? Even though Freddy won 18 games you all wanted him gone.. and claim McCarthy is the next coming of Christ. I dont think the issue is Garcia being gone but more so what KW got for him. I hate to break it to you all BUT a 30 yr old pitcher making $10M in his contract year with this market is not 1) going to settle for an extension 2) is not going to bring you a Vernon Wells. I hate to say it but ... Freddy was IMHO the 2nd to last pitcher in our staff, KW got what he could for a guy that would walk next season. So lets say this, the trade never happens, we loss Freddy after the season and we get WHAT?? 2 draft picks??? I would rather have a former top prospect with MLB experience and a lefty with good minor league experience than... Joe Blow and John Doe (only draft picks)!

 

Also keep in mind: Freddy CANT hold on a runner to save his SOUL!

 

I think it's cause KW said he wouldn't make any move that wouldn't help the 2007 team squad.

[RX Bandits]

I wouldn't mind Anderson in CF if we could upgrade our LF position.

BUT THERE IS NO MARKET FOR A LF. Thats why Pods is back (very cheaply I might add concidering the market). We will look back at this offseason 3 years from now when the market corrects itself and all of these silly contracts will put some teams into deep holes. Thank god Kenny is not giving Dave Roberts a boat load of money to suck.

[SoxHawk1980]

As for 2007, what evidance says Brandon will be bad? ON PAPER, it is a downgrade, but thats why you play the games. Furthermore, for 2008 and beyond WHEN WE STILL WILL BE CONTENDING FOR A DIVISION TITLE a lot of our current rotation will be leaving via free agency. It helps the team win down the road whether its through the actual players themselves or other players they can bring as b/c of their trade value

I don't think anyone has said that BMac will be bad in 2007. I think he'll have about a 4.50 ERA, like Garcia did. That is about average for a #3 SP. That's not bad. Frankly that is a lot to expect of a young pitcher in his first full season.

 

Yes, I realize that the future is important. I just think you shouldn't trade for the future at the expense of the present when you are going to be contending for a division title in the present.

[fathom]

BUT THERE IS NO MARKET FOR A LF. Thats why Pods is back (very cheaply I might add concidering the market). We will look back at this offseason 3 years from now when the market corrects itself and all of these silly contracts will put some teams into deep holes. Thank god Kenny is not giving Dave Roberts a boat load of money to suck.

 

I still think I'm the only one who doesn't consider the Roberts contract very bad. It's KW's job to go out and find a LF for this team. Settling with Pods because "you know what he'll give you" is just stupid. Pods was one of the worst starters in baseball last year.

[SoxHawk1980]

No s***? I'm flabbergasted!

YASNY, when is the last time you were critical of a Sox move at the time it was made? Ever?

[ChiSox9]

I think it's cause KW said he wouldn't make any move that wouldn't help the 2007 team squad.

 

How did this trade not help in 2007????? We put a up and coming pitcher in the rotation, saved $10M to spend elsewhere and stocked our farm system with 2 solid guys (if they dont go to the bullpen in 07). All you all were saying that garcia is lazy, poor work ethic, pothead, lost velocity... well he's gone? How are we not better?

[southsider2k5]

YASNY, when is the last time you were critical of a Sox move at the time it was made? Ever?

 

When's the last time you weren't? Blindly critisizing everything makes you just as bad, or worse, than the very same people you keep attacking.

[RX Bandits]

I still think I'm the only one who doesn't consider the Roberts contract very bad. It's KW's job to go out and find a LF for this team. Settling with Pods because "you know what he'll give you" is just stupid. Pods was one of the worst starters in baseball last year.

Dave Roberts is bad at baseball. It even sounded as though they signed Pods to eventually trade him. I'm not saying Pods is good either, but I would rather have him around for only 1 year than Roberts for 3. Plus, Pods can atleast attempt to lead off. I dont think Roberts fits well in our lineup

 

How did this trade not help in 2007????? We put a up and coming pitcher in the rotation, saved $10M to spend elsewhere and stocked our farm system with 2 solid guys (if they dont go to the bullpen in 07). All you all were saying that garcia is lazy, poor work ethic, pothead, lost velocity... well he's gone? How are we not better?

I dont think anyone has really said this, but that 10mil could be used as leverage in a big trade. Keeny doesnt go from trade to trade, is planning out his moves three trades before

[SoxHawk1980]

When's the last time you weren't? Blindly critisizing everything makes you just as bad, or worse, than the very same people you keep attacking.

How silly. I loved the Thome trade. How about that? I don't blindly criticize anything. When I criticize, I give chapter and verse on what I didn't like about it. That's not blind. That's actually thinking, not just rooting. It is very easy for a fan to convince himself that what his team did was actually good. It took many Sox fans about 6-8 hours to convince themselves. I'm actually trying to look at this rationally and objectively.

 

If I had told you guys a couple of days ago that KW was considering trading Garcia for Floyd and Gio, you would have said:

 

1. Of course he isn't seriously considering that, because

2. That trade would suck, because

3. We can get a lot more for Garcia.

 

Now that it has happened, you are working hard to find the upside and are focusing on only that.

[southsideirish71]

Freddy won 17 games. BMac will have to have one helluva first full year as a starter to top that.

 

Russ Ortiz won 21 games a few years back also. What happened to him in his next large contract.