NCsoxfan Posted December 28, 2006 Author Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Dec 27, 2006 -> 08:04 PM) And who's to say that his decline has been due to the injury, I know that he was out this year with the injury, but he may have been battling it for a while. With almost a year off to recover he could be back into his Oakland form, or he might stink, buts its a gamble that is worth taking. I couldn't agree more - well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Dec 27, 2006 -> 07:04 PM) And who's to say that his decline has been due to the injury, I know that he was out this year with the injury, but he may have been battling it for a while. With almost a year off to recover he could be back into his Oakland form, or he might stink, buts its a gamble that is worth taking. I'm sorry, but he's been mediocre to poor for the last 2 1/2 years. If he's been hurt that long (which I doubt), someone on either Oakland or St. Louis' medical staff needs to get fired. Geez, maybe we should talk to the Cubs about getting Kerry Wood and Mark Prior, then if they could all regain their 2003 form we'd dominate. Edited December 28, 2006 by ZoomSlowik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted December 28, 2006 Author Share Posted December 28, 2006 In 2005 Mulder went 16-8 3.64 ERA 1.38 WHIP 205 IP 3 CG 2 SO Since when is that mediocre or poor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(NCsoxfan @ Dec 27, 2006 -> 08:36 PM) In 2005 Mulder went 16-8 3.64 ERA 1.38 WHIP 205 IP 3 CG 2 SO Since when is that mediocre or poor? 1) It's in the NL 2) That WHIP is horrendous 3) Jason Marquis posted a 3.71 in STL in 2004 and Jeff Suppan posted a 3.57 in 2005. Those guys aren't exactly studs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted December 28, 2006 Author Share Posted December 28, 2006 Regardless of how adamant you are against Mulder there is no denying that he has a chance to return to his form while he was with Oakland. All this at a RELATIVELY cheap price, while costing us zero prospects. Everyone has their own opinions, but it seems well worth the risk. Some pitchers do come back and return to form - it is not unheard of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(NCsoxfan @ Dec 27, 2006 -> 08:59 PM) Regardless of how adamant you are against Mulder there is no denying that he has a chance to return to his form while he was with Oakland. All this at a RELATIVELY cheap price, while costing us zero prospects. Everyone has their own opinions, but it seems well worth the risk. Some pitchers do come back and return to form - it is not unheard of. I don't really see how that's very likely at all, considering he started to slip BEFORE this past season. He was god awful the second half of 2004, he didn't pitch very well at all in 2005 but got very lucky with stranding runners (his WHIP suggests an ERA closer to 4.50), and he was awful before finally shutting it down in 2006. Even before the surgery, there was maybe a 40% chance that he got back to that kind of performance, the surgery drops that significantly. If you really want to go out and get a former star that has some slim chance of returning to form we could get Chan Ho Park a lot cheaper... I'm sorry, I don't see how Mulder is that good an investment considering someone is probably going to offer him a fair amount of guaranteed money. If you really want him, I guess you're entitled to that opinion, but I really don't see him being any more than a 3rd starter again, even if he gets back on track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(NCsoxfan @ Dec 27, 2006 -> 08:59 PM) Regardless of how adamant you are against Mulder there is no denying that he has a chance to return to his form while he was with Oakland. All this at a RELATIVELY cheap price, while costing us zero prospects. Everyone has their own opinions, but it seems well worth the risk. Some pitchers do come back and return to form - it is not unheard of. Seeing how the Cardinals and Rangers are offering somewhere in the neighborhood of $12M-$14M over 2 years the Sox would probably have to go to $15M just to get him interested. That's what? $15M for 9 months (at the most) of Mark Mulder. That would mean paying him about $5M in '07 and $10M in '08? How is that cheap? That's an insane gamble for someone as questionable as Mulder. You can say he's cheap over and over until you actually break the money down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 27, 2006 -> 09:29 PM) Seeing how the Cardinals and Rangers are offering somewhere in the neighborhood of $12M-$14M over 2 years the Sox would probably have to go to $15M just to get him interested. That's what? $15M for 9 months (at the most) of Mark Mulder. That would mean paying him about $5M in '07 and $10M in '08? How is that cheap? That's an insane gamble for someone as questionable as Mulder. You can say he's cheap over and over until you actually break the money down. In the current market, that ends up being pretty cheap. See Gil Meche - Ted Lilly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Dec 27, 2006 -> 10:00 PM) In the current market, that ends up being pretty cheap. See Gil Meche - Ted Lilly No it's not cheap, not even when compared to those 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Dec 27, 2006 -> 10:00 PM) In the current market, that ends up being pretty cheap. See Gil Meche - Ted Lilly At least Meche and Lilly are healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 i have always been a mulder fan. his injury is a concern. however, he is definitley worth a risk at looking at. i doubt kw will go the route of another veteran though. he stock piled the farm system with pitching and im almost certain he wants them all to battle out to earn that 5th spot in spring training. I'm guessing it will be between Haegar, Floyd and Danks for that final spot. It will most likely be Floyds job to lose as he has some major league experience (even though it wasn't that succesful early on) But you never know... KW might have a few more moves up his sleeve and Mulder might be one of them... Mulder did grow up a Sox fan, he even went to disco demolition nite. Not that it really matters at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Does anyone else think that Mulder could turn out like Dye if he's willing to accept a contract below market value? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Dec 27, 2006 -> 10:00 PM) In the current market, that ends up being pretty cheap. See Gil Meche - Ted Lilly Its not cheap when you pick a Floyd/Sisco/Massett/Haegar/Danks for under $400K and odds are you will get more production out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(Dam8610 @ Dec 28, 2006 -> 06:46 AM) Does anyone else think that Mulder could turn out like Dye if he's willing to accept a contract below market value? You never know... if he would take a 1 year $5million contract with a 2nd year team option, i would do it in a heart beat. It never hurts to have a ton of pitching..he can be the el-duque of 2005 and floyd, danks, gio or haegar can be the new mccarthy in case he needs to some time off to heal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangar18 Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(Dam8610 @ Dec 28, 2006 -> 12:46 AM) Does anyone else think that Mulder could turn out like Dye if he's willing to accept a contract below market value? well, the guy did grow up a SOX fan ........... I would take the risk here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted December 28, 2006 Author Share Posted December 28, 2006 Is it just me or has KW shown in the past that he would rather have a veteran as the 5th pitcher than a rookie struggle? It seems as if he wanted a young guy as the 5 - it would be McCarthy. Whether its Mulder or not, is anyone else expecting us to sign a veteran pitcher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(NCsoxfan @ Dec 28, 2006 -> 08:53 AM) Is it just me or has KW shown in the past that he would rather have a veteran as the 5th pitcher than a rookie struggle? It seems as if he wanted a young guy as the 5 - it would be McCarthy. Whether its Mulder or not, is anyone else expecting us to sign a veteran pitcher? The problem I have with signing Mulder is this: He is not going to be ready until June. So that means you are going to have to have one of the kids start the beginning of the year in the 5th starter spot anyway. So if you sign Mulder, that basically says you are expecting whomever emerges as the 5th guy to fail. And what if he doesn't? What if he pitches well? Than what do you do with Mulder? Bench the kid who was pitching well and developing as a young major league starter? I just don't believe it is much of a sign of confidence in the guys you just brought in if you go ahead and sign Mulder even though he won't be ready for the first half of the season. Were he going to be healthy in April, you could say "Mulder has the 5th spot." But he isn't. And you risk retarding any progress the young kid makes by sitting him down when Mulder comes back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted December 28, 2006 Author Share Posted December 28, 2006 Does everyone really think that KW wants those guys competing for the 5th spot this year, or is it just a smoke-screen for a signing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 i really think he's content banking on a lot of production out of numbers 1 - 4 and believes we have a viable in house 4.25 - 4.75 ERA 10 win #5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(NCsoxfan @ Dec 28, 2006 -> 09:33 AM) Does everyone really think that KW wants those guys competing for the 5th spot this year, or is it just a smoke-screen for a signing? It's almost impossible to guess. All we heard over the past year or so from he and Ozzie is how they never wanted to put in the position we were in in 2004. Now it seems, at least to some extent, that we are. While his change in philosophy may make this a price we have to pay for now, he also could have something else up his sleeve. He can all the confidence in the world in one or more of these kids, but until one of them go out there and do it, it doesn't really matter. It leaves us all to wonder if he realizes that or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Two year/incentive-laden contract. He'd be worth a shot. He's still fairly young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted December 28, 2006 Author Share Posted December 28, 2006 He is only 29, and wont turn 30 until August... And people are saying he is washed up!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 MARK MULDER WILL NOT SIGN FOR ANYTHING LESS THAN $14M OVER 2 YEARS, HE'S NOT GOING TO TURN DOWN ~$12M OF GUARANTEED MONEY FROM THE RANGERS/CARDINALS JUST TO PLAY FOR THE SOX. $14M over 2 IS INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE FOR A PLAYER WHO'S AS BIG OF A QUESTION MARK AS MULDER IS. QUOTE(NCsoxfan @ Dec 28, 2006 -> 12:37 PM) He is only 29, and wont turn 30 until August... And people are saying he is washed up!! He wouldn't be the first pitcher to break down completely in his late 20's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 28, 2006 -> 01:46 PM) He wouldn't be the first pitcher to break down completely in his late 20's. Interestingly, one of Mark Buehrle's comp players is Mulder. Luckily, another is Glavine and Jim Kaat. Edited December 28, 2006 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted December 28, 2006 Author Share Posted December 28, 2006 He also wouldn't be the first to successfully come back from surgery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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