Disturbing article about the Sox's plans

[YASNY]

On the open market, provided Buerhle has a good year, you are correct.

 

However, given that the White Sox prefer to sign their players before then, and their pitchers, to 3 year deals of late, I don't think $12 million a year, or maybe something starting at $12 milliion would be totally ridiculous - espeically if Buerhle wanted to stay here. I said 3 years, 36 million, maybe 3 years 40 million gets done.

 

Probably won't matter though as Williams is saying no more extensions.

 

If he thought he could sign Buehrle for that kind of money, I'm sure he wouldn't say "no extensions". Think about it. These agents are smelling blood right now.

[spiderman]

If he thought he could sign Buehrle for that kind of money, I'm sure he wouldn't say "no extensions". Think about it. These agents are smelling blood right now.

 

I think Kenny Williams is having a change in philosphy due to the free agent market. If he was able to sign Buerhle to a $13 million dollar contract, Garland, one year later, would be worth at least as much, and maybe $15 million - that's $28 million for 2 pitchers as opposed to having 3 pitchers signed for that amount previously.

 

With the escalating costs for starting pitching, Williams is opting to go with younger pitchers who are under the team's control for up to 6 seasons.

 

Finally, if Buerhle were to become a free agent, the White Sox probably wouldn't get into a bidding war for a pitcher given their restrictions on years as opposed to other teams who give out 5 year deals for more money than the Sox would offer - so, yes, the agents would smell blood if Buerhle was a free agent, but by that point, the Sox would move on.

[fathom]

This is exactly what I was thinking, why not be a club like the Twins and A's? Develop your starting pitching in the minors, and then as soon as they get good and warrant a big contract, trade them away to restock the minors with quality young pitchers.

 

Because we're not a small market team!

[BamaDoc]

And not being a small market team gives us the advantage. If you have a true number one, you have the resources to lock them up and perhaps go to five years. I love our guys but I consider a true one to be a dominating pitcher, perennial CY Young candidate, and healthy.

[mrzo2733]

Because we're not a small market team!

 

That's exactly what I was thinking.

[striker]

I don't blame KW and JR. You can't give into the players like other GMs have. Plus, you don't know what Garcia, Vazquez and Buehrle are asking for on their extensions. They may all want $15mil/year, which they aren't worth. I hate to see those guys go but I'd hate to see us spend tons of money on them and have them suck or get injured. Its all a business.

 

If Gary Matthew Jr. and Juan Pierre are making $9mil/year then you know our pitchers are asking for alot more. And they aren't worth it.

 

I would be interesting in knowing how much more profit the team has made in the past couple years. Because I'm also a fan of sharing the wealth.

[SoxHawk1980]

So the Sox win the WS, come back and win 90 games and then apparently KW wants to scrap the team and rebuild? That has to be the most stupid idea I've ever heard and we're seeing it play out right before our very eyes. We'll be very lucky if the Astros save us from ourselves and nix the Garland for prospects trade.

[EvilJester99]

This is the sort of stuff that will move this team from being the toast of the town to a total laughing stock in no friggin time....

[striker]

Everyone rips on how dumb Phil Rogers is, now everyone is believing what he says? I don't think KW is dumb enough to get rid of everyone. Their #1 goal is still to win championships.

[SoxHawk1980]

Everyone rips on how dumb Phil Rogers is, now everyone is believing what he says? I don't think KW is dumb enough to get rid of everyone. Their #1 goal is still to win championships.

No, I believe what Kenny Williams says. I'm looking at Kenny's direct and indirect quotes in that article. Rogers is an idiot, but he's not a liar. He doesn't fabricate quotes. Kenny has made his intention clear. And basically he's going to work hard to keep the Sox in about 3rd or 4th place in the AL Central. I'm looking forward to Soxfest this year.

[Kalapse]

On the open market, provided Buerhle has a good year, you are correct.

 

However, given that the White Sox prefer to sign their players before then, and their pitchers, to 3 year deals of late, I don't think $12 million a year, or maybe something starting at $12 milliion would be totally ridiculous - espeically if Buerhle wanted to stay here. I said 3 years, 36 million, maybe 3 years 40 million gets done.

 

Probably won't matter though as Williams is saying no more extensions.

Why would Buehrle accept a 3 year deal when a lesser pitcher (and fellow lefty) in Lilly just got a 4 year deal from the Cubs? Even if Mark has an average year next seaon he'll still be looking at huge years and a large total contract. Gil Meche is about to get 4 years and $11M per while being half the pitcher Buehrle has been over the course of their careers. In this market Buehrle would be looking at 5 years/$14Mper to start and going up from there. He's healthy, a lefty and has a great proven track record, he would destroy in this market. If he's looking to cash in on his first opportunity at the FA market then I don't see any reason why he'd even be willing to think about re-signing with the Sox.

[Chisoxfn]

And yet, we are STILL basing Floyds numbers on half a season with Philly, as a 23 year old, with 108 IP career in the majors....Awesome foresight!!

My favorite part of Floyd is that he has consistently thrown right around 170 innings of work so his arm should be relatively strong and capable of handling a full season if need be. I'm excited to see him get to work with Coop (cause the Phils pitching coaches have been pretty terrible) and just get a fresh start. He was rushed and never overcame that and now gets to come to a new place where he'll have a hell of a lot pressure (considering whether we keep our 4 remaining starters or not...he'll still be at worse the 5th starter).

 

On the open market, provided Buerhle has a good year, you are correct.

 

However, given that the White Sox prefer to sign their players before then, and their pitchers, to 3 year deals of late, I don't think $12 million a year, or maybe something starting at $12 milliion would be totally ridiculous - espeically if Buerhle wanted to stay here. I said 3 years, 36 million, maybe 3 years 40 million gets done.

 

Probably won't matter though as Williams is saying no more extensions.

Thats the issue, the White Sox don't go more than 3 with there arms because of the incredible risk of handing out long term deals to pitchers (who are more prone to career ending or career altering injuries). Kenny has now seen that he won't be able to get his guys to agree to these type of extensions so with that he knows now is his window to try and get him enough young arms to help him not only now but in the future while still fielding a club perfectly capable of winning the division (and that is the goal..get in the playoffs and see what happens from there).

[WCSox]

Well, I'm almost positive now that '07 is Buehrle's last season here. It doesn't even sound like they're going to try at this point.

 

Hopefully B-Mac and one of the 'specs are ready to put up quality starts in '08, because I have little confidence that Vazquez will be anything more than a #4 and wonder how much longer Jose's body will hold up after years and years of mis-use in Cuba.

[Hangar18]

That is one of Phil Rogers' best articles in some time, and he raises some very KEY points.

WHAT ARE THEY DOING? Its almost like they went from doing nothing, to having no plan at all now.

1st thing people said to me last nite after this "trade"? THEY BETTER NOT BE CUTTING PAYROLL

 

You heard it right. If all of this pans out, it just means the SOX have quietly started a rebuilding plan,

mainly to get rid of guys before they were due. When Buehrle was signed to his current contract, I laughed at how it was all backloaded to the coming years, and I joked that this would be Buehrles last year as a SOX on another site. Of course, I was met with dismay, but this all looks like were heading down this nickel-and-dime road again.

 

Mind you, I admire not going HOG WILD and HURLING WADS OF BILLS around like the end of the world (certain team up north) but this is ridiculous.

 

THE WINDOW FOR WS CHAMPIONS CLOSES EVEN MORE NOW .............

[Balta1701]

THE WINDOW FOR WS CHAMPIONS CLOSES EVEN MORE NOW .............

The window for WS Champions closes a lot less now than it did yesterday. Now we only have 3 players who are Free Agents at the end of 2007, not 4, and we have 2 additional players who can possibly step in to replace whatever of those 3 guys we can't sign.

[Balta1701]

Thats the point in all of this. Everyone talks about the window we have/had, and while that still sort of is the case, Williams is trying to EXTEND the window. People are crying about not going for it all RIGHT NOW, but Williams is trying to not only go for it all in 2007, but in 2010 as well...

Exactly.

 

Yesterday, we were looking at a situation where 4 of our 5 starting pitchers would hit Free Agency within 2 years. Now, 3 of our 5 starting pitchers hit Free Agency within 2 years, and we have 2 additional backup options.

 

If you go up and down our lineup, Podsednik is gone by 07-08 at the latest, Dye probably leaves after 07, Iguchi is a FA after 07, Pierzynski hits FA after 08, Uribe hits FA after 08, Crede hits FA after 08, Thome has an option for 09 We have some pieces we can plug in, like Sweeney and Fields, but if we had 4 of our starters walk for draft picks, and half of our starting lineup walk for draft picks, we would be rebuilding in 2008, 2009, and 2010 without a question.

 

Now we have fewer holes to fill, and I'm fully expecting a few more of those holes to fill sometime soon.

[WCSox]

Exactly.

 

Yesterday, we were looking at a situation where 4 of our 5 starting pitchers would hit Free Agency within 2 years. Now, 3 of our 5 starting pitchers hit Free Agency within 2 years, and we have 2 additional backup options.

 

If you go up and down our lineup, Podsednik is gone by 07-08 at the latest, Dye probably leaves after 07, Iguchi is a FA after 07, Pierzynski hits FA after 08, Uribe hits FA after 08, Crede hits FA after 08, Thome has an option for 09 We have some pieces we can plug in, like Sweeney and Fields, but if we had 4 of our starters walk for draft picks, and half of our starting lineup walk for draft picks, we would be rebuilding in 2008, 2009, and 2010 without a question.

 

Now we have fewer holes to fill, and I'm fully expecting a few more of those holes to fill sometime soon.

 

I think that KW could've gotten more for Freddy, but I agree that dumping an expensive, aging pitcher who is clearly past his prime for high pitching prospects is the smart thing to do with so many of our players headed to the FA market within two years.

 

This isn't the 1999 "The Kids Can Play" team. Many of these guys are already on the wrong side of 30 and will have to be replaced within the next two years.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

My knee jerk reaction to the trade is "pay dump". I won't shed a tear for Freddy because I know his best years are behind him. It is the other trades that bother me. I hope this Garland rumor is false. We nearly hit the 3 milllion mark in attendance and cut payroll sounds like a Northside ploy. As of right now, the only real improvement is replaced 86 mph Freddy with Bmac in the rotation. Who to say that something may not be wrong with Freddy and his drop in velocity and we becomes the next Mike Sirotka? It is an imporvement for the short and long term. Roger Clemens and a few others are the only pitchers that get better with age and I am not sure Freddy fits that mold. While I stick up for this trade, I am still waiting for other improvements in the team for now, not the future.

Edited December 8, 2006 by Greg The Bull Luzinski

[Vance Law]

You heard it right. If all of this pans out, it just means the SOX have quietly started a rebuilding plan...

 

...and on Soxtalk has begun the "the sky is falling" plan

[Hangar18]

...and on Soxtalk has begun the "the sky is falling" plan

 

 

tell me this, why in the world are the SOX considering moving Jon Garland?

[DBAHO]

tell me this, why in the world are the SOX considering moving Jon Garland?

Because if you could get say Eric Hurley and John Danks (2 potential #2 starters who would be under our control for 6 seasons), don't you think that makes sense?

 

Hence why they've been asking for the likes of Jason Hirsh, Daniel Cabrera and Garret Olson etc.

 

The Sox's motto is simple, find pitchers who have the potential to be better than they guys they trade, who are younger, cheaper and under our control for longer.

[YASNY]

tell me this, why in the world are the SOX considering moving Jon Garland?

 

Several people around here say Garland is a 4.50 ERA pitcher. He has back to back 18 win seasons. Maybe the Sox agree with the 4.50 crowd and think Garland's value will never be higher because of those 18 win seasons.

[Rowand44]

tell me this, why in the world are the SOX considering moving Jon Garland?

Because the guy probably has the most trade value out of any of starters and he's an average pitcher.

Edited December 8, 2006 by Rowand44

[Vance Law]

tell me this, why in the world are the SOX considering moving Jon Garland?

 

it's how you define this particular 'considering.'

 

these rumors come out and people go insane with assumptions. do these people really think Ken W. is selling off the team, tanking '07 when they have a team that won the world series, then under performed and still were better than the majority of the league. with all of the fan support they got, do you really think Williams is planning to tank 07?

 

seems to me they're considering trading Garland IF they can get a ton for him

 

is garland being shopped around? is Ken planning to sell him, no matter what, to the highest bidder?

doubt it. the evidence points to the Sox saying, "you can have Garland......if you give us the top pitching prospect on our board plus 2 more pieces. too much for you? yes, we know. but you can only get him if you give us too much."

 

we rented out one of our starters for a year for 2 prospects- something we've been expecting to happen for a year and a half. and people started going ape. there's a rumor about us asking for the moon in return for Garland, not doing the deal, and everyone jumps off the cliff.