Is KW just being spiteful toward current market?

[joeynach]

This Garcia trade and all his talk about not retaining any of his pitchers and not being comfortable with the years and dollars players are getting is really weird. It seems KW is being rather spiteful towards the landscape of baseball these days. No I know the sox dont offer more than 3 year contracts to pitchers and they dont hand out big sum contracts, which I agree with, but there is no need for this childish spiteful firesale of some sorts. The market changes all th time relax. Yes the sox probably wont ever be in the mix for top free agents with anything like 5 Years 70 Mil to 6 Years 100 Mil to any players ever and thats ok. KW is just one of 30 other GM's that has to deal with this ridicolous market, but that doesn't mean we have to act like the pirates. We still have a higher payroll and market. There is no need to panic KW giving pitchers 9-11 Mil is OK, especially cuz we all know pitching is everyting. He has stated time and time again he never again wants to be in that 5th starter situation. Well the only way he got out of it was to put a solid proven higher paid starter in that slot. Getting young arms that are unproven and projects isn't a gurantee to a solid pitching rotation, its a gamble. And at the moment a gamble that this team just does not need to take.

[WCSox]

I don't think that he's being spiteful. It's more an issue of him not wanting to over-pay for the Randy Johnsons and A.J. Burnetts out there.

[jackie hayes]

I don't think that he's being spiteful. It's more an issue of him not wanting to over-pay for the Randy Johnsons and A.J. Burnetts out there.

Umm...or the Gil Meches.

[Princess Dye]

even while pursuing this year, teams have to make "win later" moves. even the biggest spenders have to do it.

 

they're not terribly popular... but before 2005, we made some moves that could have been interpreted as "win later".... yet Ozzie created the "win now" atmosphere in the clubhouse

 

in the end, that's what matters most. plus, there's a "win now" aspect to moving McCarthy into the rotation... if you ask me.

 

 

if Garcia was really going to bring us a ton in return, i'd be disappointed. but i dont think he was.

Edited December 7, 2006 by Princess Dye

[GIOin08]

or the Jamie Navarros

[joeynach]

I don't think that he's being spiteful. It's more an issue of him not wanting to over-pay for the Randy Johnsons and A.J. Burnetts out there.

 

Well thats fine I wouldn't either. But the sox aren't dumb they dont get involved with pitchers like that cuz they know they aren't that good. Those guys both posted 4 or 5+ Era and most people, like the sox, could see that coming. But there will be FA pitchers the sox want wheater hes a #1 or #4, they were hot after vazquez for awhile and found away to get him and pay him. KW seems so adamanet that he all of a suddent can't afford anything is whats so bothersome. Its like are u kidding, thats something the pirates are probably saying.

[GoSox05]

some of the posts today are just awful. I don't know if i should cry or just laugh at them.

 

 

yeah KW is throwing a fit and is trading people because he's grumpy.

 

wtf

[southsideirish71]

This Garcia trade and all his talk about not retaining any of his pitchers and not being comfortable with the years and dollars players are getting is really weird. It seems KW is being rather spiteful towards the landscape of baseball these days. No I know the sox dont offer more than 3 year contracts to pitchers and they dont hand out big sum contracts, which I agree with, but there is no need for this childish spiteful firesale of some sorts. The market changes all th time relax. Yes the sox probably wont ever be in the mix for top free agents with anything like 5 Years 70 Mil to 6 Years 100 Mil to any players ever and thats ok. KW is just one of 30 other GM's that has to deal with this ridicolous market, but that doesn't mean we have to act like the pirates. We still have a higher payroll and market. There is no need to panic KW giving pitchers 9-11 Mil is OK, especially cuz we all know pitching is everyting. He has stated time and time again he never again wants to be in that 5th starter situation. Well the only way he got out of it was to put a solid proven higher paid starter in that slot. Getting young arms that are unproven and projects isn't a gurantee to a solid pitching rotation, its a gamble. And at the moment a gamble that this team just does not need to take.

 

 

Gill I barely can pitch Meche just got a 5 year 55 to 60 million dollar deal. How much praytell do you think that Freddy will get.

 

We had 2 pitchers who were going to become FAs at the end of this year, another next year and a few after that. Whom are you putting in the rotation to replace them when you dont give them all 5 year 75 and up for their services.

[joeynach]

even while pursuing this year, teams have to make "win later" moves. even the biggest spenders have to do it.

 

they're not terribly popular... but before 2005, we made some moves that could have been interpreted as "win later".... yet Ozzie created the "win now" atmosphere in the clubhouse

 

in the end, that's what matters most. plus, there's a "win now" aspect to moving McCarthy into the rotation... if you ask me.

if Garcia was really going to bring us a ton in return, i'd be disappointed. but i dont think he was.

 

Im not that down on the Garcia trade I wanted him out and McCarthy in. But I still beleive we could have got better than Gavin Flloyd, a more MLB ready player. Its this landscape of now Garland being traded and KW saying he wont retain on of his pitchers after their terms are up. Thats the spitefule "I cant handle" this market mentality im talking about. Hence the firesale like trade rumors.

[CanOfCorn]

The Sox are not acting like the Pirates. They are looking out for their best interests...no matter who is on the market. Even the pitchers that are ridiculously expensive on the Sox (I'm looking at you Javier), we aren't paying ALL of it. If anything, THAT'S the Sox' m.o. Get a player that has some of his salary already paid or get the team trading that player to pay a part of it (I.e. the Phillies with Thome).

 

I would much rather the Sox trade Garcia for Gonzalez and Floyd that to EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER sign the likes of Zito, Lilly or Meche for those ridiculous sums they have gotten or will get.

[joeynach]

Gill I barely can pitch Meche just got a 5 year 55 to 60 million dollar deal. How much praytell do you think that Freddy will get.

 

We had 2 pitchers who were going to become FAs at the end of this year, another next year and a few after that. Whom are you putting in the rotation to replace them when you dont give them all 5 year 75 and up for their services.

 

Im not so sure the market will be the same next year or the year after. If there is a larger amount of FA pitching the prices should go down. THat could happen over the next couple years. This panic on todays market stuff is what Im talking about. And who knows maybe MB, JC, JG, or JV want to stay sox and give a nice hometown discount. Its the sox that seem more stubborn. Its has been documented they dont offer more than 3 year contracts to pitchers, that will not help your chances or keeping your FA's or getting new ones.

[jphat007]

Im not that down on the Garcia trade I wanted him out and McCarthy in. But I still beleive we could have got better than Gavin Flloyd, a more MLB ready player. Its this landscape of now Garland being traded and KW saying he wont retain on of his pitchers after their terms are up. Thats the spitefule "I cant handle" this market mentality im talking about. Hence the firesale like trade rumors.

 

Yah, I think KW had all kinds of great offers and took the worst one out there just so he could stick it to the man.....right?

 

KW is going to spend money, he's just not going to give Gil Meche 55 M and Ted Lilly 40 M. Our payroll will still be high.

[CanOfCorn]

Im not so sure the market will be the same next year or the year after. If there is a larger amount of FA pitching the prices should go down. THat could happen over the next couple years. This panic on todays market stuff is what Im talking about. And who knows maybe MB, JC, JG, or JV want to stay sox and give a nice hometown discount. Its the sox that seem more stubborn. Its has been documented they dont offer more than 3 year contracts to pitchers, that will not help your chances or keeping your FA's or getting new ones.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Im not so sure the market will be the same next year or the year after. If there is a larger amount of FA pitching the prices should go down. THat could happen over the next couple years. This panic on todays market stuff is what Im talking about. And who knows maybe MB, JC, JG, or JV want to stay sox and give a nice hometown discount. Its the sox that seem more stubborn. Its has been documented they dont offer more than 3 year contracts to pitchers, that will not help your chances or keeping your FA's or getting new ones.

 

If that was the case, MB and FG would have signed extensions a long time ago.

[joeynach]

Yah, I think KW had all kinds of great offers and took the worst one out there just so he could stick it to the man.....right?

 

KW is going to spend money, he's just not going to give Gil Meche 55 M and Ted Lilly 40 M. Our payroll will still be high.

 

Of course not no one wants that garbage. But dont close the doors now on our guys now or future FA becuase u dont like the market in 2006.

 

Yah, I think KW had all kinds of great offers and took the worst one out there just so he could stick it to the man.....right?

 

KW is going to spend money, he's just not going to give Gil Meche 55 M and Ted Lilly 40 M. Our payroll will still be high.

 

I think he could have waited a littel while and got a better deal. Even if the sox had to give Garcia + 1 prospect to get santana that would have been better. More major league ready, less hit or miss.

[heirdog]

I think he could have waited a littel while and got a better deal. Even if the sox had to give Garcia + 1 prospect to get santana that would have been better. More major league ready, less hit or miss.

 

So you want to give up a prospect instead of picking up two near ready ones that the White Sox scouts really like? BMAC is in our rotation next year in place of Garcia so its not like we needed a guy to plug into the rotation next year in the deal for Garcia. I think KW tried for Santana so that he could then move another starter for some future studs that he could ship to the farm but when that fell through, he went for the next best deal. But I don't think we need to sweeten the pot when we are the ones giving up a top of the rotation starter.

[Dick Allen]

So far the offseason after the White Sox set franchise attendance records and have a nearly 100% season ticket renewal rate, we have heard our GM say that the 3rd baseman will be not be able to be signed and that the entire rotation will not be able to get extensions. I was hoping the White Sox were past this thought process. I do like the Garcia deal, and IF Hirsh was included in the Houston deal, it would have been OK for me, but that is assuming the money saved will be used somewhere else.

[Balance]

To me, it seems prudent to wait out this particular FA market. It's not as though we have a crappy team currently. If the market is as overvalued as it currently seems to be, the smart thing to do would be to wait for it to cool off, even as long as next year.

[CanOfCorn]

So far the offseason after the White Sox set franchise attendance records and have a nearly 100% season ticket renewal rate, we have heard our GM say that the 3rd baseman will be not be able to be signed and that the entire rotation will not be able to get extensions. I was hoping the White Sox were past this thought process. I do like the Garcia deal, and IF Hirsh was included in the Houston deal, it would have been OK for me, but that is assuming the money saved will be used somewhere else.

 

And THAT is where salary dumping comes into place. They aren't going to dump ALL of these guys. Contreras is 35 (-ish) so he may be done by the time his contract is up. That leaves MB, JG and JV. And if the Sox decided to keep two (hopefully MB and JG of the three), then that would be alright with me.