Some new Chicago Sports.com articles

[Gene Honda Civic]

Gio will compete with Logan and others for the final spot in the pen. He will have to smoke Logan in ST to make the team though.

 

Limiting his innings to LOOGY duties after the season he had where he showed that he still has some significant flaws to work through would be a dumb move in the long run. Look for him to start at Charlotte, where he's a phone call away if Logan/LOOGY fails.

 

If he is able to cut his BB and HR rates at AAA, he returns to elite prospect status, and is penciled into the '08 rotation.

[Rowand44]

If he is able to cut his BB and HR rates at AAA, he returns to elite prospect status, and is penciled into the '08 rotation.

Those two might go hand in hand, meaning with his shaky control from last season he might have been falling behind more hitters and then served one up. Hopefully he cuts down on the control problems next season.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Those two might go hand in hand, meaning with his shaky control from last season he might have been falling behind more hitters and then served one up. Hopefully he cuts down on the control problems next season.

Not really. The HR rate was pretty consistent throughout the season. His control kept getting worse though.

 

The HR rate was largely attributed to park though. He allowed 10 more HR at home (reading is a good hitters park)... 16.3% of his FB went for HR at home compared to 10.8% on the road, with 63% of his IP coming at home.

 

We'll see if he can hack a small park at AAA too, it'll be a good guide for USCF.

[Rowand44]

Not really. The HR rate was pretty consistent throughout the season. His control kept getting worse though.

 

The HR rate was largely attributed to park though. He allowed 10 more HR at home (reading is a good hitters park)... 16.3% of his FB went for HR at home compared to 10.8% on the road, with 63% of his IP coming at home.

 

We'll see if he can hack a small park at AAA too, it'll be a good guide for USCF.

Gotcha. I haven't looked through his splits from last season, I was just throwing that out there as a possibility.

[witesoxfan]

lol. silly you comparing a baseball team to the stock market.

 

I'm not comparing a baseball team to the stock market, I'm comparing baseball player's values to stock values, and the market for players to the market for stocks. What's so "silly" about that?

 

what bullpen depth has been brought in?

 

What are Floyd and Aardsma to you, batboys?

 

I see Jenks, MacDougal, Thornton, Floyd, Aardsma, and then Logan/Haeger/Tracey at the end of the bullpen currently, and I highly doubt Kenny's done dealing yet.

 

kenny sure made the right "trade" getting 2 mid level prospects for freddy garcia during a pitching starved offseason.

 

Pitching starved? Really?

 

Barry Zito, Jason Schmidt, Adam Eaton, Vicente Padilla, Gil Meche, Ted Lilly, Randy Wolf, Greg Maddux, Miguel Batista, Mark Mulder, Jeff Suppan, Jeff Weaver - I'm likely forgetting a few - and that's just the free agent market.

 

Look at next year's likely crop of starters and tell me with a straight face that this year's market is pitching starved.

 

Teams have money to spend and are willing to throw it around at free agents rather than send talent over to another club and then have to worry about resigning the player. It's quite simple really.

 

did you not learn from last year with your FUZZY math?

 

Learn what? I don't even understand that that comment is regarding. The outstanding values KW resigned Garland and Contreras at?

 

nothing but negativity from this organization.

 

Based on what, your interpretation of quotes? Yeah, KW's not trying to win at all next year, in fact, he is just randomly giving players away at any cost.

 

this ballclub won the world series with major league pitchers. whether you thought they were good or bad. they were big league ready. not guys brought up from the minors.

 

And they lost in 2006 with the same pitchers. Oh yeah, that's right, then they added a major league pitcher one so that they didnt HAVE to put in a minor leaguer. What's up with that?

 

The Sox big 4 all had ERAs under 4 in 2005; those same 4 all had ERAs over 4.50, save Contreras (who was at an impressive 4.26).

 

such a knee jerk reaction from a flash in the pan GM

 

The same flash in the pan GM who constructed the first World Series winner since 1917 and the first back to back 90 win seasons since '64-'65? K, just checkin'.

 

and his penny pinching owner.

 

Roughly a $100 million payroll in 2006, in the upper third in the league. He really needs to spend $200 million though if he wants to continue competing.

 

but we all must realize this was the only outcome that could have occured. it's the history of this franchise.

 

Yep, you're right, this deal is going to turn out horribly because KW's been burned on so many deals in the past and has never won anything. Why is he even still the GM?

 

 

Kenny doesn't look to get steals in trades. He sees what the market has to offer, and he sees what he wants from the offering teams. He and others obviously felt that the Phillies offer was the best one on the table when considering both value and needs. Some apparently refuse to believe that KW would have such a thought process. I too felt Kenny should have brought in atleast one other player, but with everything considered, I don't see how this is that bad of a trade by the Sox.

[witesoxfan]

Wite, you wasted WAYY too much time for a guy like "Sinking Ship" WAYYYY Too much time.

 

ya i did

 

it was fun though

[Rowand44]

Hard to believe that such a good explanation of things came from Wite.

[sox-r-us]

Barry Zito, Jason Schmidt, Adam Eaton, Vicente Padilla, Gil Meche, Ted Lilly, Randy Wolf, Greg Maddux, Miguel Batista, Mark Mulder, Jeff Suppan, Jeff Weaver - I'm likely forgetting a few - and that's just the free agent market.

 

Good point. Couple more: Jason Marquis. The Japanese pitcher the Red Sox are talking with....

 

On the trade market - Jon Leiber.

[Kalapse]

Roughly a $100 million payroll in 2006, in the upper third in the league. He really needs to spend $200 million though if he wants to continue competing.

2006 White Sox Payroll: $102,875,667 good for 4th in all of baseball behind NYY, BOS and $750,000 behind LAA.

[witesoxfan]

2006 White Sox Payroll: $102,875,667 good for 4th in all of baseball behind NYY, BOS and $750,000 behind LAA.

 

thx, wasnt sure what it was...knew it was up there

 

I just wish he'd spend more

[103 mph screwball]

2006 White Sox Payroll: $102,875,667 good for 4th in all of baseball behind NYY, BOS and $750,000 behind LAA.

 

I wonder what it is now for next year with Freddie traded. Minus 10 more million if Garland is traded. Keep the payroll at 100 million and infuse the system with young pitching, and I can live with that. I may not agree, but I will trust KW. Go into next year with an 80 mil payroll and it screams salary dump. Now, without the numbers in front of me, assume the Sox have 10-15 million to spend. What are they going to do with it. Maybe some of it would be better spent on additional scouts, a 2nd hitting coach, improved minor league instructors, and bonus money for some overseas talent. I'd imagine 5 million for scouts may have more benefit than a crusty old bullpen guy who is not that much better than the guys you have in the system.

[witesoxfan]

I wonder what it is now for next year with Freddie traded. Minus 10 more million if Garland is traded. Keep the payroll at 100 million and infuse the system with young pitching, and I can live with that. I may not agree, but I will trust KW. Go into next year with an 80 mil payroll and it screams salary dump. Now, without the numbers in front of me, assume the Sox have 10-15 million to spend. What are they going to do with it. Maybe some of it would be better spent on additional scouts, a 2nd hitting coach, improved minor league instructors, and bonus money for some overseas talent. I'd imagine 5 million for scouts may have more benefit than a crusty old bullpen guy who is not that much better than the guys you have in the system.

 

How about trying to pound out extensions with Buehrle and Crede? Would that be good or not?

 

(in Crede's case, it might not, but we'll see)

 

Or how about something completely radical and trading for Vernon Wells and then locking him up long-term?

[103 mph screwball]

How about trying to pound out extensions with Buehrle and Crede? Would that be good or not?

 

(in Crede's case, it might not, but we'll see)

 

Or how about something completely radical and trading for Vernon Wells and then locking him up long-term?

 

Extensions would be very nice. However, nothing that has been said or done in the last few days gives me any hope that that will happen. I we are offering Mark 3 years 45 million and he can get 6 years 90 million on the open market next year, he is gone. That's another problem I have with the Sox. Time to give 4 year deals. Yes, it is risky but you can't expect 3 to get you anything if the other side will settle for nothing less than 5 years. Crede doesn't seem likely for reasons we all know.

 

Maybe Wells would be the way to go. The Sox may be more willing to risk the huge cash on everyday players instead of pitchers. Manny, AROD, or any good player who is already inked to a contract may be better.

[Kalapse]

Appearantly Brian Peters and Greg Genske, Vernon Wells' agents are looking at Well's impending free agency as a way of making their mark in the game of baseball. They appearantly will be looking for a $20M+ per year contract over atleast 6 seasons, so yeah I don't see the Sox trading for Vernon anytime soon.

[witesoxfan]

Extensions would be very nice. However, nothing that has been said or done in the last few days gives me any hope that that will happen. I we are offering Mark 3 years 45 million and he can get 6 years 90 million on the open market next year, he is gone. That's another problem I have with the Sox. Time to give 4 year deals. Yes, it is risky but you can't expect 3 to get you anything if the other side will settle for nothing less than 5 years. Crede doesn't seem likely for reasons we all know.

 

Maybe Wells would be the way to go. The Sox may be more willing to risk the huge cash on everyday players instead of pitchers. Manny, AROD, or any good player who is already inked to a contract may be better.

 

There's about one pitcher the White Sox have had in the past 20 years...given, I'm 19, so a lot of this is hearsay...that merits more than 3 or even 4 years and that's Mark Buehrle. He will not consistently put up sub 4 ERAs year in and year out...he's such a pitcher that he is just not capable of that, similar to that of Jamie Moyer, Kenny Rogers, and David Wells. However, he's almost guaranteed to stay healthy, and he will, by and large, put up ERAs south of 4...he's done it 4 of the 6 years he's started, and nearly did it in 2003 after he had such a wretched start to the year.

 

Regardless, I really don't blame the organization's fear of long-term contracts to pitchers.

[beck72]

Well Coop said on the Score today that he'd like for Gio to tryout for a bullpen spot this Spring Training, this leads me to believe that the lowest level we'll be seeing Gonzalez at next season is Charlotte. Of course this could just be Coop talking out of his ass but you never know.

It wouldn't be a crazy idea. Esp if Gio was pretty polished with two of his pitches, which seems to be the case. Gio would likely have to be very dominant for him to even come close to heading north though out of ST. Haeger and Broadway are both likely ahead of him if a spot opens up in the rotation anyway.

[DBAHO]

I'm going to put this out there on Wells.

 

The Sox are building with their young pitching. They are going to work more younger players like Sweeney and Fields eventually into the mix.

 

That means if we're going to have a $100M payroll, we're going to have to spend it on someone.

 

Is there a chance the Sox would rather sign a Vernon Wells to a bigger contract than say re-signing Jermaine Dye?

 

Remote I know, but I'm trying to get an idea of what the future plans for this ballclub are.

 

Apparently he wants a contract bigger than what Carlos Beltran got though, and if he has another season like he in 2006, he'll probably get it.

[Capn12]

If what Kalapse mentioned is the case, then VWells can keep on a looking elsewhere...when I think of $20 million dollar players(sad that there is such a thing, but thats another argument), I don't see Wells in my mind.

[beck72]

I'm going to put this out there on Wells.

 

The Sox are building with their young pitching. They are going to work more younger players like Sweeney and Fields eventually into the mix.

 

That means if we're going to have a $100M payroll, we're going to have to spend it on someone.

 

Is there a chance the Sox would rather sign a Vernon Wells to a bigger contract than say re-signing Jermaine Dye?

 

Remote I know, but I'm trying to get an idea of what the future plans for this ballclub are.

 

Apparently he wants a contract bigger than what Carlos Beltran got though, and if he has another season like he in 2006, he'll probably get it.

 

I could see the sox spending a lot of money on a position player. However that player would have to be a guy who could hit leadoff. The sox have enough guys with pop. They need a guy who can hit for avg. and get on base, and preferably have speed. Wells, for that money, wouldn't be the kind of fit for the sox.

[kwolf68]

kenny sure made the right "trade" getting 2 mid level prospects for freddy garcia during a pitching starved offseason.

 

Gio Gonzelez is not "mid level"...he immediately becomes our top pitching prospect in our entire system. Floyd is just a flier Kenny took on a kid that once was the Phillies top prospect, who IS ONLY 23 years old. I don't know if Floyd will pan out, but with another year of seasoning no doubt in my mind Gio will pan out.

[joeynach]

Might as well address this right now, because it will turn into a fifteen page thread otherwise -- Reinsdorf operates this club under a business model of, at worst, breaking even financially. I doubt anyone within the White Sox organization is stuffing their pockets with money. $10 million will be in use come 2007, whether it's for a various players' contract extensions or using it towards an acquired player's salary.

 

How many times have we been over this. THe white sox owners and what not dont see any $$ from anything in the organzation unless they would sell the team. There is no pocketing money, they own the team based on the number of shares they own. Which have a value but dont equate to real dollars unless they are sold. So believe me dumping salary and bringing in kids does not up the value of the owners stocks.

[YASNY]

How many times have we been over this. THe white sox owners and what not dont see any $$ from anything in the organzation unless they would sell the team. There is no pocketing money, they own the team based on the number of shares they own. Which have a value but dont equate to real dollars unless they are sold. So believe me dumping salary and bringing in kids does not up the value of the owners stocks.

 

And this has been talked about here over and over and over and over and over and over .... but some people are a little slow.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(sox-r-us @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 11:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have compiled the quotes below but to read the articles, just use the links at bottom.

 

Discuss.

 

==================

 

"We're not trying to pretend we have all the answers, but we have a plan and hopefully that plan will turn out kind of [like it] trended before," Williams said before leaving baseball's winter meetings.

 

"Where eventually it will be proven we're making the right moves and when we decide to make a move with those guys, we'll be idiots for acquiring them and idiots for letting them go."

 

"We have nothing going on," Williams said before leaving with club Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf.

 

Williams admitted the Sox were "close to about four or five things, but they didn't materialize for us for various reasons."

 

"I've tried to explain our mission statement over and over, but I'm kind of resigned to the thought that whatever we do isn't good enough or understood," Williams said, shaking his head.

 

"So I honestly can't worry about it too much. I have to do what I think is in the best interests of the organization."

 

"In the case of Joe Crede, how many times did you hear get rid of Joe Crede?" Williams said. "Jon Garland. Don't bring in A.J. Pierzynski. What are you doing with Scott Podsednik? Are you nuts? Juan Uribe, he can't play shortstop. Aaron Rowand, he can't play center field. And then when I traded Aaron Rowand, it was like 'What are you doing? You traded the best center fielder in the game.'

 

"I can't combat all of it. If you do, you're going to be squashed by the pressure of it all. I just try to make informed decisions. Our guys get around and talk about a lot of things. Like you guys do in the bar about your end of the industry."

 

"But you know what would be more unpopular?" Williams said. "It would be if we did nothing and got old and got too expensive and then had to go out scrounging for leftover talent and overpaying for mediocre talent."

 

"Well, I know they are both plus-arms," Williams said. "One of the things you have to deal with is that hopefully his growing pains are out of the way. They all go through it.

 

"One thing we have to offer from an offensive standpoint is we can give a pitcher a little run support."

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines

 

===================

 

"We could not continue to operate in the manner I've been operating for the last few years, which has been target, target, target, veteran player, veteran player," Williams said Thursday.

 

"First of all, those deals aren't out there right now. You are going to run into a brick wall, sooner or later."

 

An AL executive said the Sox had asked for Mets reliever Duaner Sanchez and top pitching prospect Philip Humber and the Yankees' Philip Hughes and Humberto Sanchez in proposals for starting pitching

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines

 

====================

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines

 

===================

 

"Just remember that you don't judge an off-season by what you have at the end of the winter meetings," a White Sox executive said Thursday.

 

One long-time GM speculated the Sox could be clearing the decks to land Barry Zito or Barry Bonds, who re-signed with the Giants late Thursday.

 

The path that might make the most sense is to use Brandon McCarthy at the top of a package to pry outfielder Carl Crawford away from Tampa Bay. If not Crawford, then

 

Rocco Baldelli, who wouldn't be quite as costly.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...cs-home-utility

 

You know, that Barry Zito thing kind of makes sense. If we trade Buehrle to add more pitching prospects and free up his money and Garcia's money we can then sign Zito and trade some pitching prospects for Carl Crawford.

 

We would then have a rotation of:

 

Contreras

Zito

Garland

Vazquez

McCarthy

 

and then a lineup of

 

CF/LF Crawford

2B Iguchi

DH Thome

1B Konerko

RF Dye

C Pierzynski

3b Crede

SS Uribe

LF Podsednik/ CF Anderson

 

Not too shabby at all.

[Kalapse]

3 things. 1.) Zito will not be leaving the west coast unless it's for New York. 2.) He will be receiving a $100M+ contract 3.) He will also get atleast 6 years from someone, the White Sox refuse to go more than 3 years with their own pitchers why would they do so for Zito? He has a 1.40 Whip as a 28 year, I hate to imagine what that will look like when he's 34 and making $20M a year.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

3 things. 1.) Zito will not be leaving the west coast unless it's for New York. 2.) He will be receiving a $100M+ contract 3.) He will also get atleast 6 years from someone, the White Sox refuse to go more than 3 years with their own pitchers why would they do so for Zito? He has a 1.40 Whip as a 28 year, I hate to imagine what that will look like when he's 34 and making $20M a year.

 

OK. I am just saying it could make a lot of sense from the give and take scenario. If he gets 6 years or 20 million a year someone has a lot of explaining to do. He is not that type of pitcher. Someone will be regretting that.