Are the Sox going to dump the whole team?

[fathom]

I can't believe people think Floyd is such a lock to make the 25 man roster next year. They must be seeing different stats than I am.

[Kalapse]

Do you realize that neither Gio nor Floyd have NEVER performed well at a level higher than AA? Floyd has gotten a number of chances in the majors and failed repeatedly. He's still got work to do in the minors. Gio is young for AA and still hasn't mastered that level yet. Neither of these guys are ready for the majors. Sure, they may get pushed into major league duty, but there is NO evidence that they are ready to be even mediocre in the majors. If either of these guys plays a "major roll in Chicago next year," we're in big trouble.

I never said it was a good idea, in fact I said it's probably a foolish one. I was just relaying what Coop has stated and what he obvious course of action would be with Floyd. Floyd will be starting the year in the majors as of right now so you should probably be ready for that one.

[Rowand44]

Do you realize that neither Gio nor Floyd have NEVER performed well at a level higher than AA?

So what you're saying is that they have both performed well in leagues over AA?

Edited December 8, 2006 by Rowand44

[Kalapse]

I can't believe people think Floyd is such a lock to make the 25 man roster next year. They must be seeing different stats than I am.

If we are to believe anything that is said by the men running the White Sox organization then yes it looks like Floyd will be on the 25 next year, he's not a lock but I'd give him better than even odds that he makes the big club out of spring training.

[SoxHawk1980]

So what you're saying is that they have both performed well in leagues over AA?

Whoops. One too many negatives there. Let me rephrase:

 

Do you realize that neither Gio nor Floyd have EVER performed well at a level higher than AA?

[Kalapse]

So what you're saying is that they have both performed well in leagues over AA?

I've never seen the words 'neither', 'nor' and 'never' in the same sentence before, I was impressed.

[SoxHawk1980]

If we are to believe anything that is said by the men running the White Sox organization then yes it looks like Floyd will be on the 25 next year, he's not a lock but I'd give him better than even odds that he makes the big club out of spring training.

Unfortunately, I agree. I'd much rather he work on things in AAA and see if he can fix things there before coming to Chicago.

[Rowand44]

If we are to believe anything that is said by the men running the White Sox organization then yes it looks like Floyd will be on the 25 next year, he's not a lock but I'd give him better than even odds that he makes the big club out of spring training.

Barring more moves to the pitching staff, Floyd will be in the bullpen to open the season, I'm almost certain.

[SoxHawk1980]

I've never seen the words 'neither', 'nor' and 'never' in the same sentence before, I was impressed.

Watch out, I'm just getting started with the negativity.

[fathom]

Barring more moves to the pitching staff, Floyd will be in the bullpen to open the season, I'm almost certain.

 

Which is just so puzzling to me, as KW and Ozzie said their main goal this offseason was to upgrade our bullpen.

[SoxHawk1980]

I never said it was a good idea, in fact I said it's probably a foolish one. I was just relaying what Coop has stated and what he obvious course of action would be with Floyd. Floyd will be starting the year in the majors as of right now so you should probably be ready for that one.

This is true, but that part of his post was valid. We made a trade for two guys who most likely will not help the major league team this year. They may get some innings in the majors, but there is no reason to believe they will be good innings. Whether one likes the trade or not, one should realize that the only value of Floyd and Gio is in their future potential, not their present.

[ptatc]

I can't believe people think Floyd is such a lock to make the 25 man roster next year. They must be seeing different stats than I am.

 

Or possibly they are looking beyond the stats and thinking "while he hasn't put it together yet, he went through growing pains last year and is ready to contribute as a last man out of the bullpen role."

 

If you only look at the stats (they are important however) anyone who struggles early in thier career (insert any of a number of names here ie, ventura, crede, garland) would never get a chance.

Edited December 8, 2006 by ptatc

[witesoxfan]

I can't believe people think Floyd is such a lock to make the 25 man roster next year. They must be seeing different stats than I am.

 

Improved K/9, improved BB/9, improved H/9 in AAA last year. None were overly impressive, but they were solid nonetheless.

[ChiSox9]

You all think JR is cheap... I just found this on Gorillamask.net:

 

Sued him for having the same name

The Tribune Co. of Chicago, Ill. The newspaper chain owns several newspapers, as well as the Chicago Cubs baseball team. One of its newspaper carriers was Mark Guthrie, 43, of Connecticut. One of its ball players was Mark Guthrie, 38, of Illinois. The company's payroll department mixed the two up, putting the ballplayer's paycheck into the paper carrier's bank account. The carrier allowed them to take back 90 percent of the improperly paid salary, and said they could have the rest after they gave him a full accounting to ensure he not only got his own pay, but wouldn't have any tax problems for being paid $300,000(!) extra. The Tribune Co., rather than provide that reasonable assurance, instead sued him for the rest of the money.

[fathom]

Or possibly they are looking beyond the stats and thinking "while he hasn't put it together yet, he went through growing pains last year and is ready to contribute as a last man out of the bullpen role."

 

If you only look at the stats (they are important however) anyone who struggles early in thier career (insert any of a number of names here ie, ventura, crede, garland) would never get a chance.

 

Or you could talk with people who saw him pitch over the last two years and they say that he's far from being a MLB caliber pitcher. His career right now is quite similar to that of Borchard's.

[ptatc]

Or you could talk with people who saw him pitch over the last two years and they say that he's far from being a MLB caliber pitcher. His career right now is quite similar to that of Borchard's.

 

Again our reports differ on this. But your last comment only referred to looking at the stats not talking to anyone that has seen him pitch.

[CanOfCorn]

Again our reports differ on this. But your last comment only referred to looking at the stats not talking to anyone that has seen him pitch.

 

He will be better than he has been, but he probably was beaten down to the point where he will never live up to being the 4th player drafted overall. I would say he's got a chance to be as high as a #3 starter.

 

New surroundings, new pitching coach...as long as Ozzie doesn't berate him like he did with Tracey, I think he'll be fine.

[Bubba Philips]

He will be better than he has been, but he probably was beaten down to the point where he will never live up to being the 4th player drafted overall. I would say he's got a chance to be as high as a #3 starter.

 

New surroundings, new pitching coach...as long as Ozzie doesn't berate him like he did with Tracey, I think he'll be fine.

for the record FLoyd had a decent rookie season in limited time 26 innings posting a 3.49 era going 2 and 0. 2005 and 2006 were busts.

[RockRaines]

If you carry out KW's and JR's recent comments to their logical conclusion, there is no way the Sox can re-sign ANY player after his current contract expires because the marketplace is just too expensive. And if you follow this logic out, that means you have to dump the player with a year left on their contract in order to get any value in the marketplace.

 

So, right now, according to that twisted view, should we be saying bye-bye to:

 

1. Jermaine Dye -- why not unload him now?? He won't be affordable in 2008.

2. Mark Buehrle -- ditto.

3. Tadahito Iguchi -- contract runs out next year.

 

Are there more??

 

Yet, we can give $2.9 million to bring back the worst starter on the team -- Scott Podsednik???

 

We built a championship club -- the first in almost 90 years -- by trading FOR guys like Freddie Garcia, and trading away unproven prospects like Jeremy Reed, Miguel Olivo, and Michael Morse. Now I suppose Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd are worth more than we gave the M's, but dumping the guy who beat the Tigers 4X last year and won 17 games for us to acquire two guys that are unlikely to even play for the Sox in 2007 seems a tad ridiculous.

 

So much for competing with the Yankees and Red Sox and Angels. We're still a "small market" club in the eyes of our owner. Heck, why not just dump the whole team like the Marlins did -- twice??

Get that out of your system? Good, time to actually think about baseball instead of posting crazy stuff. KW has made ONE deal, and it was a good one, deal with it.

[beck72]

Ridiculous. These moves are about staying competitive for years not just a three yr run. Keeping all the SP's, all the position players no matter the cost, will make the sox run last far shorter than shoring up the pitching staff with top talent.

 

Dye will likely depart after 2007. The sox have Sweeney probably ready to step in. Buerhle likely is a keeper--he's earned a 3, 4 yr deal. But these outrageous deals aren't going to last long. The money will come back down to earth

 

Many teams are going to go broke and be rueing the day they signed mediocre guys to big money, long term deals. KW is ahead of the curve on this one.

Edited December 8, 2006 by beck72

[SoxHawk1980]

Get that out of your system? Good, time to actually think about baseball instead of posting crazy stuff. KW has made ONE deal, and it was a good one, deal with it.

Spin, spin, spin. If you think about a trade long enough, you can convince yourself that it was actually great for your team.

[ChiSox9]

Spin, spin, spin. If you think about a trade long enough, you can convince yourself that it was actually great for your team.

 

I dont post much but after spending more time on Soxtalk I have noticed that you have to be the most negative fan I have ever seen.

[Balta1701]

Spin, spin, spin. If you think about a trade long enough, you can convince yourself that it was actually great for your team.

I don't know if it was a great trade, and I don't think anyone will know for about 3-4 years. But in the end, it's almost impossible for it to be a horrible trade.

 

If everything goes wrong with it, what is the worst that happens? Garcia has a big year for Philly, then walks for a $16 million a year, 4 year deal, and the White Sox miss out on 2 draft picks and that big year (assuming of course he even could have a big year in the AL). Then the Sox hold onto both of those pitchers, and they flop. So what? All we've done then is turn those draft picks into people who could compete for us earlier, we save $10 million this year, and we clear a rotation spot for the brightest star in our system, BMac. And hell if BMac struggles, we still have about 5 other options sitting behind him now in Haeger, Gio, Floyd, Philipps, and Broadway.

 

Remember the phrase, low risk, high reward? That fits very well with the deal KW made. Very low risk, potentially very high reward.

[RockRaines]

I dont post much but after spending more time on Soxtalk I have noticed that you have to be the most negative fan I have ever seen.

they call it short-sighted.

[Leagalize13]

I don't know if it was a great trade, and I don't think anyone will know for about 3-4 years. But in the end, it's almost impossible for it to be a horrible trade.

 

If everything goes wrong with it, what is the worst that happens? Garcia has a big year for Philly, then walks for a $16 million a year, 4 year deal, and the White Sox miss out on 2 draft picks and that big year (assuming of course he even could have a big year in the AL). Then the Sox hold onto both of those pitchers, and they flop. So what? All we've done then is turn those draft picks into people who could compete for us earlier, we save $10 million this year, and we clear a rotation spot for the brightest star in our system, BMac. And hell if BMac struggles, we still have about 5 other options sitting behind him now in Haeger, Gio, Floyd, Philipps, and Broadway.

 

Remember the phrase, low risk, high reward? That fits very well with the deal KW made. Very low risk, potentially very high reward.

Man I could'nt agree more. The more I here KW talk the more it sounds like he's taking a page out Billy Beane's book. The A's traded Mulder and Hudson I believe in the same year and yet competed for the West the following year and every year after. Thats where Scouting and player developement come in. It is possible to recycle vets out for young talent and still compete although A.L. central is just a bit tougher than the West. I have all the confidence in the world that KW knows what he's doing.