Rocco Baldelli

[NorthSideSox72]

Everybody seems to assume Dye will move on, but I haven't seen anything from him that says he wants out of Chicago. Sure, he said he'd like to play for the Ranger's new manager, but that doesn't mean we can't resign him.

If he does indeed stay, then fantastic. I was just saying that we should be ready that he won't, and that will probably mean Sweeney in RF.

[Gregory Pratt]

I have no problem shelling out big money to JD for a three year contract but there's no way he takes a three year contract.

 

He's as gone as Buehrle.

[Balta1701]

I have no problem shelling out big money to JD for a three year contract but there's no way he takes a three year contract.

 

He's as gone as Buehrle.

I don't think it's totally out of the question that if we offer JD a 3 year deal this offseason, he won't take it. The main reason...his injury history. Teams don't forget things like that, and if he were to have a year that he missed a lot of time, even on a freak injury, it could seriously hurt his earning potential.

 

It'd have to be something like 3/40 to be fair at this point (considering the fact that he'd only earn $7 million this year without an extension), but that might be a decently smart move for both sides. But it would be a sacrifice of some potential long-term money for JD in exchange for more security in the near-term, so who knows if he'd take it.

[NorthSideSox72]

I don't think it's totally out of the question that if we offer JD a 3 year deal this offseason, he won't take it. The main reason...his injury history. Teams don't forget things like that, and if he were to have a year that he missed a lot of time, even on a freak injury, it could seriously hurt his earning potential.

 

It'd have to be something like 3/40 to be fair at this point (considering the fact that he'd only earn $7 million this year without an extension), but that might be a decently smart move for both sides. But it would be a sacrifice of some potential long-term money for JD in exchange for more security in the near-term, so who knows if he'd take it.

And Dye is not exactly young at this point. And he already has a history of taking a good but not necessarily highest money deal to stay where he wants to play.

 

I don't think its out of the question. And in fact, if you do get Dye to re-sign or extend this offseason, then suddenly the Sweeney/Owens/Fields group is more tradeable (not all of course, but one or two). Depending on the LF situation (one of those three maybe become our LF in that scenario).

[Gregory Pratt]

And Dye is not exactly young at this point. And he already has a history of taking a good but not necessarily highest money deal to stay where he wants to play.

 

No. He has a history of taking the best offer he'd gotten -- here -- and then getting a new one AFTER but keeping his original word.

 

If the Rangers had offered him the bigger contract before we had, there's no way he'd have turned them down. Money talks.

 

That said, I admire that he's a man of his word, but he's exactly that. He's not, on the other hand, a guy who takes less money just because he likes the environment.

[Balta1701]

I don't think its out of the question. And in fact, if you do get Dye to re-sign or extend this offseason, then suddenly the Sweeney/Owens/Fields group is more tradeable (not all of course, but one or two). Depending on the LF situation (one of those three maybe become our LF in that scenario).

The other issue of course being that f***ing 3rd base slot...which also is keeping us from dealing another of those guys.

 

Anywho, I really don't want to see Sweeney traded, and I don't think Owens has that much value at all, but that's probably me just being too attached to Ryan.

[NorthSideSox72]

No. He has a history of taking the best offer he'd gotten -- here -- and then getting a new one AFTER but keeping his original word.

 

If the Rangers had offered him the bigger contract before we had, there's no way he'd have turned them down. Money talks.

 

That said, I admire that he's a man of his word, but he's exactly that. He's not, on the other hand, a guy who takes less money just because he likes the environment.

 

I think it was as much a desire to play in Chicago for Ozzie on a team with better prospects for winning as it was a desire to be "honest". But that is just my opinion.

 

The other issue of course being that f***ing 3rd base slot...which also is keeping us from dealing another of those guys.

 

Anywho, I really don't want to see Sweeney traded, and I don't think Owens has that much value at all, but that's probably me just being too attached to Ryan.

 

Indeed, the 3B thing is complicating. If you re-sign Crede, suddenly Fields' value goes down a bit. If you trade Fields, Crede goes to the bank. I do think that the former is less evil than the latter, as Fields' value drop won't be as huge due to Crede's signing as Crede's raise would be if they know we are over a barrel.

 

I tend to think a little more highly of Owens than others here. His lack of organized play shows, but if you consider that and look at his numbers and level jumps, I think he's doing quite well. I'd be he'll have a very good year at Charlotte in 2007.

[Gregory Pratt]

I think it's pretty naive to think he came here because we gave him the best chance to win. He came here because we'd offered him the best contract at the time, he had accepted, and didn't want to let Kenny down by going back on him.

[Gregory Pratt]

Texas offered the better deal after us. He kept his word. What I'm saying is, there's no way he'd give us a discount again like he did then because he only gave us that discount in the first place because he'd given his word to Kenny that he'd sign before he'd been offered more money. There are no guarantees now.

[NorthSideSox72]

I think it's pretty naive to think he came here because we gave him the best chance to win. He came here because we'd offered him the best contract at the time, he had accepted, and didn't want to let Kenny down by going back on him.

 

So its naive to think he chose Chicago because he wanted to be on a winner, but makes perfect sense to say it was because he was "honest"?

 

I don't doubt that the handshake agreement was part of the decision. But Dye absolutely had a better financial offer to take, and chose not to, to play here.

 

Nor should he. I'm really not sure why any player would give a team a "discount"

 

With THAT said, If the Sox offer a good, fair deal to Dye, and lets say Tampa comes along with a better offer, a 33 year old Dye strikes me as a player that would rather be on a winner,especially at the point he's at in his career, rather than a team like the Rays.

 

My point exactly. Thank you for clarifying.

[Gregory Pratt]

So its naive to think he chose Chicago because he wanted to be on a winner, but makes perfect sense to say it was because he was "honest"?

 

I don't doubt that the handshake agreement was part of the decision. But Dye absolutely had a better financial offer to take, and chose not to, to play here.

 

I don't think I ever used the word honest. You keep quoting me as having used the word "honest" and that's dishonest because I never did. You can't directly attribute something to me that I never said, so settle down tiger, and put that BANGBANGLOLOLOL hammer away, plz.

 

And honestly, I think he would've broken his handshake agreement with any other GM. The fact that Williams is a black man -- like Dye, if you haven't noticed -- likely had something to do with his willingness to stand by his word.

 

As far as the whole contender issue: it wasn't as if the 2005 White Sox were predicted to do a damn thing and it would've been hard to predict them to. I doubt Jermaine Dye said to himself, "Buehrle'll have a good year, and Garcia might too -- he's had them before! But damn, I'll bet Contreras and Garland start dealing, too, and I want to play on a contending team!"

 

2005 White Sox weren't contenders on paper.

 

It's all kind of moot, as arguing over a baseball player's motivation is pretty silly. But personally, I think it had more to do with KW being black and JD being black and gratefulness that he'd given him a contract and JD had already shaken on it than "desire to play on a contender."

Edited December 31, 2006 by Gregory Pratt

[YASNY]

I don't think I ever used the word honest.

And honestly, I think he would've broken his handshake agreement with any other GM. The fact that Williams is a black man -- like Dye, if you haven't noticed -- likely had something to do with his willingness to stand by his word.

 

As far as the whole contender issue: it wasn't as if the 2005 White Sox were predicted to do a damn thing and it would've been hard to predict them to. I doubt Jermaine Dye said to himself, "Buehrle'll have a good year, and Garcia might too -- he's had them before! But damn, I'll bet Contreras and Garland start dealing, too, and I want to play on a contending team!"

 

2005 White Sox weren't contenders on paper.

 

It's all kind of moot, as arguing over a baseball player's motivation is pretty silly. But personally, I think it had more to do with KW being black and JD being black and gratefulness that he'd given him a contract and JD had already shaken on it than "desire to play on a contender."

 

Now that is very presumptuous on your part ... the part about KW being a black man. The man (Dye) gave his word, shook on it and stood by it. I don't think race a damn thing to do with it.

[Gregory Pratt]

It's just what I think. Wouldn't be the first time that a player was willing to do something because of race. Probably shouldn't have mentioned it because whenever you mention race people get on you, but I always thought it was more likely than "wanted to play on a contender with Scott Podsednik and Jon Garland!"

 

I'm going to bow out of this discussion, though.

[YASNY]

It's just what I think. Wouldn't be the first time that a player was willing to do something because of race. Probably shouldn't have mentioned it because whenever you mention race people get on you, but I always thought it was more likely than "wanted to play on a contender with Scott Podsednik and Jon Garland!"

 

I'm going to bow out of this discussion, though.

 

I look at it from the perspective of Jermaine Dye being a man who stands by his word. That simple. That's what I meant by race having nothing to do with.

[103 mph screwball]

Baldelli is not worth the asking price. That seems to be a common theme for devil rays players. Also, if Anderson is part of the trade, the Sox would still not have a back up CF which is probably not a good idea with Baldelli's history of injury. D-rays need to move him. As reasonable as his contract may seem to some people, it would be a huge part of the D-rays budget. Personally, I'm not very impressed with Baldelli. He'd be an upgrade, but he wouldn't be worth the money the Sox would have to pay him AND the talent the Sox would have to give up get him.

[knightni]

put that BANGBANGLOLOLOL hammer away, plz.

 

 

NEVAR!

 

Edited December 31, 2006 by knightni

[Dick Allen]

I think the White Sox offer to Dye was the best one on the table at the time he decided to pull the trigger. It wasn't as if he had been coming off a few stellar seasons, there were a lot of questions, and it wasn't like the White Sox were thought of as title contenders either. After he accepted the offer, a better one came around, and thankfully for the White Sox, Dye apparently is a man of his word and still signed with the White Sox.

[knightni]

3 years 36mil could work for Dye. . .

 

Maybe.

[NorthSideSox72]

I don't think I ever used the word honest. You keep quoting me as having used the word "honest" and that's dishonest because I never did. You can't directly attribute something to me that I never said, so settle down tiger, and put that BANGBANGLOLOLOL hammer away, plz.

 

That said, I admire that he's a man of his word, but he's exactly that.

 

honest, man of his word, blah blah blah, semantics, hammers, LOLz....

 

Anyway, I agree with Tony - If we made a roughly market-level offer to Dye, even if he could make a small amount more elsewhere, I'd bet money he stays, just like PK did. But we do have to be in the right ballpark.