shawnhillegas Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 (edited) While I was intially ambivalent about the Garcia trade and the prospect of trading Jon Garland, after reading those two ridiculous articles in the Tribune (one by Rogers and one by Morrissey) I decided that the only logical thing to do was to support these deals to the fullest. But seriously, here's my thinking... If the White Sox were to let all of their current starters walk rather than pay out the current market rate for another contract, or even if they were to sign Buerhle and let the others go, they would find themselves in a particularly bad position given their likely draft status and the current free agent climate. Specifically, the Sox have no legitimate way of acquiring a potential #1 starter unless it is via trading for young prospects. I believe it's been over a decade since the Sox had a 1st round draft pick higher than 15th, and its quite clear that the Sox will not be able to compete with the Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs when Santana and Zambrano hit the market. The Sox are drafting #3 starters when they drafted Broadway and McCullough, and by turning the rotation over without acquiring young pitching via trades, the next cycle in the White Sox rotation would consist of mediocre talent (Phillips, Broadway, etc.); the Sox cant consistently acquire better talent via the draft when they are picking so low. And for those spots that aren't filled via our farm system, we would be forced to pay outrageous sums for more #3 and #4 starters. In the long run, we would likely be paying three below average or average starters what we are paying our starting five now, and we would have the last two spots filled by our own system, which is not stacked with talent. In other words, our system can't produce #1 starters (consistently) via the draft and we aren't going to sign any Aces either, so if we want to have a rotation with a strong upside, we must take chances. Yes, I know the Twins got lucky with Garza, Santana and Liriano, but that hasn't happened for us, and hoping that it will is foolish. The rotation turnover is coming whether you like it or not, and when it does, Broadway, Haeger, and McCullough may be the answer, but there is a strong likelihood they are not all going to succeed. Nor is the answer to sign Gil Meche or Jason Marquis, nor will it be to re-sign Jose until he's 42. Quite simply, our only chance for a top-notch rotation comes through the acquisition of young players from other systems until we either get better draft picks, or until we decide we will pay 180 million dollars for Johan Santana. And I don't know about you, but I think that if Hirsh does put up a sub-3 ERA and hes making 350,000 dollars, he is more valuable than Santana 10 times over, because he allows you to spend that money elsewhere. And finally, I havent even discussed the Sox lack of depth in position players in the farm. Money spent on Andruw Jones is probably better spent than it is on a pitcher just because the risk of injury is so much smaller. Young, cheap pitching allows you to invest in more surefire offensive targets. Edited December 9, 2006 by shawnhillegas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 (edited) Sign me up for Hirsch, later JG... I agree though, I'd prefer to develop good young pitching and spend on positions. Edited December 9, 2006 by SEALgep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 Ace-quality pitchers do not always come from first round draft choices. I believe Mark was a 38th round draft pick. As you mentioned, Santana was a rule-5 pick. Chris Carpenter was a journeyman. The point is, that aces or frontline starters come from all sorts of sources. While it is advantageous to be able to draft earlier in the draft, it doesn't mean that those guys are going to become aces. The White Sox have begun drafting "safe" pitchers over the last few years. Not hard throwers, but guys that have a very good chance of becoming middle or back end starters. Broadway and McCulloch are examples of that. There is value in having several guys develop into middle rotation guys, as opposed to 1 of every 8 or 10 power arms turn into front rotation guys. As you might see, a middle rotation guy like Jon might end up netting us a front rotation prospect, possibly 2. Garcia just netted us a few guys that can step in. There are several ways this can be done. An ace need not only come through round 1 or 100 million dollar contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnhillegas Posted December 9, 2006 Author Share Posted December 9, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 9, 2006 -> 02:53 PM) Ace-quality pitchers do not always come from first round draft choices. I believe Mark was a 38th round draft pick. As you mentioned, Santana was a rule-5 pick. Chris Carpenter was a journeyman. The point is, that aces or frontline starters come from all sorts of sources. While it is advantageous to be able to draft earlier in the draft, it doesn't mean that those guys are going to become aces. The White Sox have begun drafting "safe" pitchers over the last few years. Not hard throwers, but guys that have a very good chance of becoming middle or back end starters. Broadway and McCulloch are examples of that. There is value in having several guys develop into middle rotation guys, as opposed to 1 of every 8 or 10 power arms turn into front rotation guys. As you might see, a middle rotation guy like Jon might end up netting us a front rotation prospect, possibly 2. Garcia just netted us a few guys that can step in. There are several ways this can be done. An ace need not only come through round 1 or 100 million dollar contracts. I agree, but why do the White Sox have such trouble drafting hard throwers with tons of upside (Wyatt Allen, Nick Lemon, Dan Wright)? Our "safe" picks seem to be panning out better, which is why I dont think we will stray from that strategy in future years. Edited December 9, 2006 by shawnhillegas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 I agree with the Sox not spending money for the likes of a Zito, Schmidt, Lilly, Meche, Marquis, etc. But when guys like Santana and Zambrano become available, and the Sox are drawing close to 3Mil fans, I would certainly hope the Sox would be competing for their services. KW is smart for not blowing his wad on mediocrity and he's also way ahead of the curve (as always) in dealing a Garcia for two young pitching prospects. But even KW says salary is no longer an issue, so when some real quality becomes available, I would expect KW and the Sox to be right in the mix with the money they didn't blow on a Lilly or Meche type pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 He did not necessarily say salary was not an issue *ever*. He meant is wasn't an issue in dealing Garcia. I agree, when guys like Santana and Zambrano are FA's, you have to look into it, and Kenny undoubtedly will. But that doesn't mean that they, also, cannot become ridiculous to sign. If Santana comes out after 08', and wants 6 years, 150 million, would you consider that a smart move? There are limits to what any player is worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez's Ghost Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 Prior to 2005 time and again I heard baseball analysts referring to our starting staff as a bunch of 2's and 3's without an ace. Things worked out pretty well. I don't think we need to spend time on who is really a guy you can consider an ace. What you need to do is have quality starters who pitch well enough to get you into the playoffs, and then you hope to get hot for 3 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 QUOTE(SEALgep @ Dec 9, 2006 -> 07:48 PM) Sign me up for Hirsch, later JG... I agree though, I'd prefer to develop good young pitching and spend on positions. im the opposite, i would rather spend the money on quaility pitching while develop the possition players. Pitching wins championships we saw that in 2005. However, it is important to plug in pitchers from your own system every now and then also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Dec 9, 2006 -> 11:17 PM) im the opposite, i would rather spend the money on quaility pitching while develop the possition players. Pitching wins championships we saw that in 2005. However, it is important to plug in pitchers from your own system every now and then also. Pitching is over priced right now. There are more cheap bats available than arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 QUOTE(SEALgep @ Dec 9, 2006 -> 07:48 PM) Sign me up for Hirsch, later JG... I agree though, I'd prefer to develop good young pitching and spend on positions. I agree too. I don't understand how Sox fans can complain about this trade. We had 6 good starters coming into 2006 now we have 5. All we need is 5. But now we also have 2 more pitching prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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