beck72 Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 (edited) Cowley reports in this am's Sun times that the sox have been in contact with more than just the Astros, that the sox were just as close with 3 or 4 other teams besides the astros on a deal for Garland. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...T-sox10.article One of those would seem to be the DBacks. http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cheapseats...o/1208rant.html IMO, it seems that the sox put the word out that Garland could be dealt after trading Freddy. That means other teams can try and get a deal for Jon after the meetings. They come to KW and he can either yea or nea a deal. Or stand pat. There wasn't time to get a deal for Jon done as the sox dealt Freddy the night before they left I can't see the sox trading Garland to an AL team--why would KW want to help a team that the sox would likely have to face in the playoffs? But Besides the Astros and the DBacks who have reported interest--now it seems they've faded---what other teams may have been in on the discussions for Jon? Edited December 10, 2006 by beck72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 10, 2006 Author Share Posted December 10, 2006 To answer my own question, by the looks of it, other teams who are looking for a top SP could include the Rangers, Mets, and Cardinals. With the talk about how the sox have heavily scouted the Rangers farm system, I could see the sox hooking up with them. And KW not too worried about seeing them in the playoffs. Re: the Mets, it was reported the sox asked for Humber and Heilman for Freddy. While it may have been too much for Freddy, it probably wouldn't be enough for Jon. Though Minaya would likely want Javy instead of Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 10, 2006 Author Share Posted December 10, 2006 It seems two prospects that teams were asking about from the dBacks were Dustin Nippert and Micah Owings. Don't know too much about them. http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diamondbac...dbacks1208.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Carlos Gonzalez and Micah Owings as a MINIMUM from the D-Backs. The thing is, they're not exactly stocked with high class young pitching which is what we're after. Instead position prospects is where it's at for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RME JICO Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 I would think Arizona, Houston, St. Louis and the Mets would be the primary teams, with others like the Rangers, Orioles, and Blue Jays. Houston lost Pettite and Backe, and probably Clemens for 2007. Those are some huge losses. St. Louis no longer has Marquis (no big loss) and Weaver (FA), so they seem pretty thin for World Series champs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 10, 2006 Author Share Posted December 10, 2006 QUOTE(RME JICO @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 01:19 PM) I would think Arizona, Houston, St. Louis and the Mets would be the primary teams, with others like the Rangers, Orioles, and Blue Jays. Houston lost Pettite and Backe, and probably Clemens for 2007. Those are some huge losses. St. Louis no longer has Marquis (no big loss) and Weaver (FA), so they seem pretty thin for World Series champs. You'd think St louis would have to consider Buehrle before Garland, though. Though with them wanting to repeat as champs, they may not want to wait until MB became a free agent next yr. The larger point of the sox letting teams know that Garland [the sox best trading chip, with a reasonable deal for 2 more yrs, young, durable] could be had would be for teams to come up with offers for all their SP's. Including MB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Pretty sure it was said by KW that the Yanks and Cards were not a match. But I guess you still never know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 10, 2006 Author Share Posted December 10, 2006 QUOTE(SEALgep @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 02:50 PM) Pretty sure it was said by KW that the Yanks and Cards were not a match. But I guess you still never know... STL would have to include Reyes as the main peice. Other than that, they don't have much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 I dont see why we just try to trade the mets javier vazquez... I never really liked vazquez last year, and garland seems a bit more valuable. Mets seem to like javier, why dont we just go down that road? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosox41 Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 QUOTE(beck72 @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 05:47 AM) To answer my own question, by the looks of it, other teams who are looking for a top SP could include the Rangers, Mets, and Cardinals. With the talk about how the sox have heavily scouted the Rangers farm system, I could see the sox hooking up with them. And KW not too worried about seeing them in the playoffs. Re: the Mets, it was reported the sox asked for Humber and Heilman for Freddy. While it may have been too much for Freddy, it probably wouldn't be enough for Jon. Though Minaya would likely want Javy instead of Jon. I'd rather keep Garland and trade Vazquez. Also, if the Sox do trade Garalnd, I hope he gets traded to the NL Central which pretty much means St Louis or Houston. I'd also like to screw over the Cubs. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox It To Em Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Good. More teams wanting Garland gives us leverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnhillegas Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(iWiN4PreP @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 10:35 AM) I dont see why we just try to trade the mets javier vazquez... I never really liked vazquez last year, and garland seems a bit more valuable. Mets seem to like javier, why dont we just go down that road? I think its all about return. If the Astros are willing to offer Hirsh, then the Mets need to be willing to deal Pelfrey or Humber if they want to make a deal with the Sox. I would consider the difference between Garland and Vazquez to be minimal, whichever deal brings the most back is the deal I'd take. I still think theres a shot the O's are willing to part with Daniel Cabrera too. I know hes a little bit older but hes one intimidating, hardthrowing dude. Edited December 10, 2006 by shawnhillegas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 QUOTE(Sox It To Em @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 11:18 AM) Good. More teams wanting Garland gives us leverage. Or so you'd think. Everyone was supposed to want Garcia, too. All we got for him was a failed prospect and a guy we already had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 The that the same Joe Cowley who pitched a no-hitter for the Sox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 QUOTE(Leonard Zelig @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 10:30 AM) The that the same Joe Cowley who pitched a no-hitter for the Sox? Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian26 Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 QUOTE(Leonard Zelig @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 10:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The that the same Joe Cowley who pitched a no-hitter for the Sox? Not the same guy at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 10, 2006 Author Share Posted December 10, 2006 QUOTE(shawnhillegas @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 04:25 PM) I think its all about return. If the Astros are willing to offer Hirsh, then the Mets need to be willing to deal Pelfrey or Humber if they want to make a deal with the Sox. I would consider the difference between Garland and Vazquez to be minimal, whichever deal brings the most back is the deal I'd take. I still think theres a shot the O's are willing to part with Daniel Cabrera too. I know hes a little bit older but hes one intimidating, hardthrowing dude. I think that's the key. Which SP gets the sox the return "they want", not necessarily the greatest return though. It's a subtle but big difference. One deal could get the sox set up for yrs--starting in 1, 2 yrs, though. Another could help the sox in 07 and for yrs down the road as well. It seems like the sox will make another move--as long as it helps the 2007 sox and the future. Any deal that weakens the 2007 in a drastic way will probably be scuttled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 11:02 AM) Yep. QUOTE(Brian26 @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 11:12 AM) Not the same guy at all. I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 QUOTE(Leonard Zelig @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 11:25 AM) I see. Did that clear things up for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 I can definitively say they are not the same person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsgoarow Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 back to micah owings.....im actually friends with his brother....played for the Danville Braves last year (who i worked for in the front office) just i thought i would throw it in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Trade away another starter or two from the Sox and I am willing to bet we are no better than 3rd or 4th in the AL Central next year. Pitching is where it's at and we can get all the "potential talent" in the world, but I don't see it helping before a couple of seasons at the earliest. If these other teams need our guys so bad I think we should be gettting more than what we did for Freddie. You wonder when some of them are going to bankrupt anyway at the prices they are paying for mediocrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leagalize13 Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 If Jon goes anywhere I hope that its to Texas. A little while back DBAHO posted alot of usefull info on Dnaks, Masset and Hurley and it sounds like we could get more for Jon in a deal with them, provided they dont sign Zito. I really wasnt impressed with the prospects Houston was offering, I do like the idea of trying to get Taveres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 05:51 PM) Trade away another starter or two from the Sox and I am willing to bet we are no better than 3rd or 4th in the AL Central next year. Pitching is where it's at and we can get all the "potential talent" in the world, but I don't see it helping before a couple of seasons at the earliest. If these other teams need our guys so bad I think we should be gettting more than what we did for Freddie. You wonder when some of them are going to bankrupt anyway at the prices they are paying for mediocrity. I don't understand why you think just because our starters have popular names and big salaries that they will be successful? Getting rid of Freddy opened a spot in the rotation for McCarthy (who just has to have an ERA less than 4.5 to be able to replace Freddy), it brought 2 more possible starters in the future, and it saved us $10million dollars this year. How is this a bad move? Freddy struggled to throw 90mph, Cecil Fielder could steal off him, he was going to want $15mil/year as a free agent and despite winning 17 games he had an ERA of 4.53. What makes you so sure we could have gotten more for Freddy? Don't you think that Kenny Williams knows more about his options then you do? I disagree that pitching wins ball games. GOOD pitching wins ball games and Freddy was no longer GOOD. QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 05:51 PM) Trade away another starter or two from the Sox and I am willing to bet we are no better than 3rd or 4th in the AL Central next year. Pitching is where it's at and we can get all the "potential talent" in the world, but I don't see it helping before a couple of seasons at the earliest. If these other teams need our guys so bad I think we should be gettting more than what we did for Freddie. You wonder when some of them are going to bankrupt anyway at the prices they are paying for mediocrity. BTW, Detroit and Minnesota both won last year because of two young unproven starters, Liriano and Verlander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 QUOTE(gosox41 @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 09:55 AM) I'd rather keep Garland and trade Vazquez. Also, if the Sox do trade Garalnd, I hope he gets traded to the NL Central which pretty much means St Louis or Houston. I'd also like to screw over the Cubs. Bob If the Sox dump Vazquez they'll have to eat a big part of his salary. They wont do that IMO. I agree with you though that getting rid of Garland should be the last thing the Sox do as he was their most effective pitcher last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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