Sox offer arbitration to Crede & Cintron

[southsider2k5]

The Amazing Boras. Anyone that looks into his eyes immediatly loses all control and starts throwing money around. All Boras has to do is ask for $100,000,000 and teams will rush to see who can pay it. Too bad we can't send him around the world to solve all the worlds problems.

 

Boras attracts the best talent and the best talent signs the biggest contracts. Anyone here who thinks they would sign for less and turn down more money is lying.

 

Am I a liar?

 

I turned down another company, with a higher salary, to take the job I have now, because the other company (for lack of a longer explanation) sucked.

[YASNY]

The Amazing Boras. Anyone that looks into his eyes immediatly loses all control and starts throwing money around. All Boras has to do is ask for $100,000,000 and teams will rush to see who can pay it. Too bad we can't send him around the world to solve all the worlds problems.

 

Boras attracts the best talent and the best talent signs the biggest contracts. Anyone here who thinks they would sign for less and turn down more money is lying.

Players are competitive. Would you take your job for less than the guy in the next cubicle, especially if you are better at it? Every player I've ever known, knew where he ranked in salaries. It's as much a competition as on the field.

 

It's like this Texsox ... Boras is a master at manipulating the player. He builds them up in their own eyes so they think they are God's gift to whoever signs them. For example, Boras put out a glossy publication that compares Barry Zito to ... are you ready for it? .... Sandy Koufax! There is no way Zito is another Koufax. He's a notch above Buehrle ... maybe ... probably. Yet, Zito was eating this s*** up. Boras appeals to the ego of the professional athlete ... which they all have to have if they are going to be successful. Boras also has the uncanny ability to present his case like a Johnny Cochran type lawyer, when it comes to dealing with the owners and playing one owner against the other. The man is a scumbag, imho, but he's a genius scumbag.

[toasty]

oh wouldnt it be nice if crede's statement that he'll sign where he wants to, regardless of what his agent wants was true?

[heirdog]

Crede is not overrated, he is underrated...did not win Gold Glove?!?

 

Boras is doing his job. Agents are around to maximize money, incentives, etc for their clients or else players would do it themselves. You can hate the institution of the "agent" as a job that has become very important in sports but how can you say someone that gets the most for his clients is a "jackass?" If you are an investor, you look for the best returns and find fund managers that can get you that so why wouldn't players do the same?

 

I think Crede will be around in 2007 with another 1 year deal but will be gone next off-season. Cintron will be back as expected and our bench will be as strong as ever (Cintron, Mac, Ozuna, Gload back-up catcher, back-up CF/4th OF).

[YASNY]

Crede is not overrated, he is underrated...did not win Gold Glove?!?

 

Boras is doing his job. Agents are around to maximize money, incentives, etc for their clients or else players would do it themselves. You can hate the institution of the "agent" as a job that has become very important in sports but how can you say someone that gets the most for his clients is a "jackass?" If you are an investor, you look for the best returns and find fund managers that can get you that so why wouldn't players do the same?

 

I think Crede will be around in 2007 with another 1 year deal but will be gone next off-season. Cintron will be back as expected and our bench will be as strong as ever (Cintron, Mac, Ozuna, Gload back-up catcher, back-up CF/4th OF).

 

I said he was a scumbag. I can put up with a jackass from time to time.

 

 

As proven by my long term membership here at Soxtalk

[Rowand44]

Crede is not overrated, he is underrated...did not win Gold Glove?!?

Instead he won the Silver Slugger.

[Gregory Pratt]

Crede is definitely overrated. Good player. Not God. Not better than Aramis Ramirez or even Morgan Ensberg.

[YASNY]

Crede is definitely overrated. Good player. Not God. Not better than Aramis Ramirez or even Morgan Ensberg.

 

Wait. Morgan Ensburg? Not even close. Ensburg may non-tendered today. As for Ramirez, he's a better bat but he he can't hold a candle to Crede defensively. A base hit robbed is as good as a base hit at the plate.

[Texsox]

Am I a liar?

 

I turned down another company, with a higher salary, to take the job I have now, because the other company (for lack of a longer explanation) sucked.

 

We're talking the same position with players. There really isn't much of a difference between the Padres, Reds, and Marlins.

 

And I should be clearer. Did the company make you an offer? Did you tell them, oh no, pay me less?

[southsider2k5]

We're talking the same position with players. There really isn't much of a difference between the Padres, Reds, and Marlins.

 

And I should be clearer. Did the company make you an offer? Did you tell them, oh no, pay me less?

 

Two different companies. One offered me a good deal more money, and I turned them down for the smaller paycheck, and better company.

[Gregory Pratt]

Ensberg had the worst year of his career at the plate and still killed Crede in OBP. As far as the overall package, I think Ensberg's more valuable than Crede. Good defense, fair hitting, good batting eye, decent power, healthy body.

 

If Ensberg were non-tendered today, I'd love to have the Sox sign him and deal Crede for a good strong package.

[Steve9347]

AH LUV JOE CREDE.

[YASNY]

Ensberg had the worst year of his career at the plate and still killed Crede in OBP. As far as the overall package, I think Ensberg's more valuable than Crede. Good defense, fair hitting, good batting eye, decent power, healthy body.

 

If Ensberg were non-tendered today, I'd love to have the Sox sign him and deal Crede for a good strong package.

 

I've actually consider that as a possibility ... and a viable one. But Crede is not going be non-tendered and there is specualtion that Ensberg might be. Granted, it's a longshot in my opinion, but I have seen the speculation that it is possible.

[ChiSox9]

Dont know the truth to this but I am going to revert to the jackass, jagoff, or whatever else we may want to call Boras.

 

http://thebrushback.com/Archives/scottboras_full.htm

[Texsox]

There is a difference Tex.

 

Now obviously I will NEVER be in the situation some of these ballplayers are in, but knowing myself, I would rather take the 5/50 million dollar deal with the Sox than the 5/60 million with the Devil Rays or Royals. It would be insanely difficult to turn down 10 million dollars, but being happy has alot to do with it.

 

Now when you sign with Boras, whether or not its right to stereotype, I look at those players as ones that don't care where they go, and want the $$. I don't hold it against the player, but when I hear about a player that has Boras as his agent, it's obvious they don't care if they go to the Yankees or the Orioles, because the money is just as green.

 

But you are a Sox fan. Would you be saying that if you grew up in California? If you are a soft drink marketing guy and as a kid drank Coke, would you work for Coke for less than Pepsi, because you are a fan? It's not like a player has free will in this. I love South Texas, if I was a ballplayer, I couldn't choose to work in South Texas. How many players get a chance to work in their hometowns? They are drafted, traded around, and most never achieve the level of success that allows for them to make that choice. And teams aren't any more loyal. Frank demonstrated over and over again a willingness to stay with the Sox. Now he's on his third team in three years.

 

I will also say it's better for baseball that players compete in the boardroom as well as on the field. How would baseball look if players wanted so bad to wear Yankee pinstripes that they would play there for less? That they valued winning so much that they would congregate on one team for much less?

 

But my main point is blame Boras all you want, but it is misdirected. He can ask all he wants, it takes someone to write the check. I blame the owners.

 

 

Two different companies. One offered me a good deal more money, and I turned them down for the smaller paycheck, and better company.

 

But did you tell them to offer you less? That's the point. The company made you an offer. Would you have told them to pay you less so they could increase marketshare? Hire more/better employees? Make more corporate profits?

[CanOfCorn]

But you are a Sox fan. Would you be saying that if you grew up in California? If you are a soft drink marketing guy and as a kid drank Coke, would you work for Coke for less than Pepsi, because you are a fan? It's not like a player has free will in this. I love South Texas, if I was a ballplayer, I couldn't choose to work in South Texas. How many players get a chance to work in their hometowns? They are drafted, traded around, and most never achieve the level of success that allows for them to make that choice. And teams aren't any more loyal. Frank demonstrated over and over again a willingness to stay with the Sox. Now he's on his third team in three years.

 

I will also say it's better for baseball that players compete in the boardroom as well as on the field. How would baseball look if players wanted so bad to wear Yankee pinstripes that they would play there for less? That they valued winning so much that they would congregate on one team for much less?

 

But my main point is blame Boras all you want, but it is misdirected. He can ask all he wants, it takes someone to write the check. I blame the owners.

 

I think that is oversimplifying it. Owners are to blame for writing the checks, but Boras over-values his players. The problem is, all it takes is one agent to inflate an entire market. Even though Zito hasn't signed yet, 9-figures were talked about from the get-go. Same with Carlos Lee. Boras single-handedly inflated the market with any of his players signing. Yes, the player has to want that money...yes, the owners sign the checks...but Boras has an uncanny ability to get more than his clients are TRULY worth...and that makes him a jackass.

[southsider2k5]

But you are a Sox fan. Would you be saying that if you grew up in California? If you are a soft drink marketing guy and as a kid drank Coke, would you work for Coke for less than Pepsi, because you are a fan? It's not like a player has free will in this. I love South Texas, if I was a ballplayer, I couldn't choose to work in South Texas. How many players get a chance to work in their hometowns? They are drafted, traded around, and most never achieve the level of success that allows for them to make that choice. And teams aren't any more loyal. Frank demonstrated over and over again a willingness to stay with the Sox. Now he's on his third team in three years.

 

I will also say it's better for baseball that players compete in the boardroom as well as on the field. How would baseball look if players wanted so bad to wear Yankee pinstripes that they would play there for less? That they valued winning so much that they would congregate on one team for much less?

 

But my main point is blame Boras all you want, but it is misdirected. He can ask all he wants, it takes someone to write the check. I blame the owners.

But did you tell them to offer you less? That's the point. The company made you an offer. Would you have told them to pay you less so they could increase marketshare? Hire more/better employees? Make more corporate profits?

 

Well I didn't demand a salary that was above the current marketplace and tell them that no other price would do either.

[ChiSox9]

But did you tell them to offer you less? That's the point. The company made you an offer. Would you have told them to pay you less so they could increase marketshare? Hire more/better employees? Make more corporate profits?

 

The point is not if he did/didnt ask them to pay him less... the point is that he went with a company that he feels is an overall better company, able to fit his long/short term goals and gives him and his family the stability and room for growth vs taking a company just based on the money they offer.(fyi, i dont know him just assuming).

 

I have been in this position many times in my career and have been burnt before. I left a good stable company for another company who offered me more money, that company went bankrupt within 1 year of my employment.

[Texsox]

A market is established when someone is willing to pay that price. Whatever we are earning today is probably greater than what someone else was doing that job fifteen years ago. Boras can ask all he wants and there is no harm. He can call Crede the greatest third baseman of all time, worth hundreds of millions, and nothing happens. Everything happens when someone agrees and makes the offer. You guys act like everyone is powerless over Boras. If he walked into the room, everyone would just empty your pockets and give him money.

 

 

 

The point is not if he did/didnt ask them to pay him less... the point is that he went with a company that he feels is an overall better company, able to fit his long/short term goals and gives him and his family the stability and room for growth vs taking a company just based on the money they offer.(fyi, i dont know him just assuming).

 

I have been in this position many times in my career and have been burnt before. I left a good stable company for another company who offered me more money, that company went bankrupt within 1 year of my employment.

 

Is someone really going to argue that there is a chance any MLB would go out of business? That there is a difference in working for the Reds, Padres, or Pirates?

 

Every free agent should be crying they didn't accept any contract that St. Louis offered them if winning a World Series ring would be the #1 criteria.

[ChiSox9]

Is someone really going to argue that there is a chance any MLB would go out of business? That there is a difference in working for the Reds, Padres, or Pirates?

 

Every free agent should be crying they didn't accept any contract that St. Louis offered them if winning a World Series ring would be the #1 criteria.

 

At what point did i argue that a MLB team may go out of business??????

[heirdog]

Crede is definitely overrated. Good player. Not God. Not better than Aramis Ramirez or even Morgan Ensberg.

 

I agree Crede is a good player not God too but that doesn't preclude him from being underrated. Some people think he is an average player...he is definitely better than average. His glove is elite and his bat is good (he is very clutch so it makes up for some of the lower stats for all the number-loving guys).

[ptatc]

I will also say it's better for baseball that players compete in the boardroom as well as on the field. How would baseball look if players wanted so bad to wear Yankee pinstripes that they would play there for less? That they valued winning so much that they would congregate on one team for much less?

 

But my main point is blame Boras all you want, but it is misdirected. He can ask all he wants, it takes someone to write the check. I blame the owners. But did you tell them to offer you less? That's the point. The company made you an offer. Would you have told them to pay you less so they could increase marketshare? Hire more/better employees? Make more corporate profits?

 

When Boras lies about what a team offers his players to another team is this him being a good agent to get his player the better deal or is it unethical?

 

Because of the threat of collusion the owners can't discuss thier offers.

 

He can essentially have teams bid against themselves as he did with Alex Rodriguez and Texas.

[Texsox]

When Boras lies about what a team offers his players to another team is this him being a good agent to get his player the better deal or is it unethical?

 

Because of the threat of collusion the owners can't discuss thier offers.

 

He can essentially have teams bid against themselves as he did with Alex Rodriguez and Texas.

 

Again, if the team doesn't want to spend that much, they don't have to. A GM could just as easy say, "Wow, the Cardinals are offering that? Congratulations, that seems like a great deal for your player". What is Boras going to do when they walk away?

Oh wait, maybe we're the only ones that have figured out that Boras may be lying about the comp offers, and the other GMs are stupid?

[To LA from Chicago]

oh wouldnt it be nice if crede's statement that he'll sign where he wants to, regardless of what his agent wants was true?

 

 

That would be very nice, but when was that statement made? I haven't heard that one...

 

 

 

 

Crede is not overrated, he is underrated...did not win Gold Glove?!?

 

Boras is doing his job. Agents are around to maximize money, incentives, etc for their clients or else players would do it themselves. You can hate the institution of the "agent" as a job that has become very important in sports but how can you say someone that gets the most for his clients is a "jackass?" If you are an investor, you look for the best returns and find fund managers that can get you that so why wouldn't players do the same?

 

I think Crede will be around in 2007 with another 1 year deal but will be gone next off-season. Cintron will be back as expected and our bench will be as strong as ever (Cintron, Mac, Ozuna, Gload back-up catcher, back-up CF/4th OF).

 

If players didn't have agents, you can damn well bet that owners and GMs would undercut the player and incentives and do everything possible to save money. One way or another, one side is trying to undermine the other side.

[fathom]

Ensberg had the worst year of his career at the plate and still killed Crede in OBP. As far as the overall package, I think Ensberg's more valuable than Crede. Good defense, fair hitting, good batting eye, decent power, healthy body.

 

If Ensberg were non-tendered today, I'd love to have the Sox sign him and deal Crede for a good strong package.

 

Morgan Ensberg was absolutely horrendous last season. He plays in a hitters paradise, and he was benched for a portion of the season. And his defense at 3rd base is pathetic. His throws often times resemble that of a bowler. He's a great guy....but was very crappy last year.