Climbers Feared Dead

[sox4lifeinPA]

Link

 

Another reason I don't test fate and climb, jump out of things, etc. If I die in a car accident, then it's tragic. If I die on a snowy mountain, it's stupidity.

 

for them to be found

[Texsox]

How can you die if you never lived?

 

I pray they have a stove at the minimum to heat water.

[sox4lifeinPA]

How can you die if you never lived?

 

 

I spent a week in Queretaro, Mexico, and other parts of Mexico. I've traveled through out the North and South of the U.S. I love exploring the hills around my folks place in Texas. I love exploring the mountains in PA. I may have not climbed a mountain, but for 26 years I have stepped outside my comfort zone and my own backyard enough to know that I am so finite and so insignificant in the world around me. I have no regrets so far, but I also have plans for the future to continue to see the world.

 

I think it's foolish to do things like what those guys did. but that's why I always have the heaviest pack when hiking, because I over prepare. These stories of people dying in the wilderness are because we think we dominate everything we encounter. I guess I just have much more respect for the wild. I know I should never try climbing a mountain.

[Texsox]

Carrying too heavy of a pack is also dangerous. While there needs to be more data, travelling light and quick and getting up and off in less time, has shown to be in some cases safer. It really depends on what was left behind and if the people have the skills to cope. Knowledge almost always trumps equipment.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Knowledge almost always trumps equipment

 

so what you're saying is that....it's not the size of your pocket knife, but how you use it?

[NorthSideSox72]

Knowledge almost always trumps equipment.

Beginning and end, right there.

 

People die in the wilderness because of poor or uninformed decisions, more often than not. Equipment and physical condition, while important, are lower on the list of importance than knowledge.

[Kid Gleason]

How can you die if you never lived?

 

But who is to say what is "living" to each individual? For me, living is seeing the movies I want to see, hearing the music I want to hear, playing as many guitars as I can, and the obvious ones of seeing my children grow old, meeting their children, and spending a lifetime with my wife.

 

Living to me is not falling out of an airplane and/or climbing big things.

 

But this the path these guys chose, hopefully they are O.K.

Edited December 12, 2006 by Kid Gleason

[Texsox]

But who is to say what is "living" to each individual? For me, living is seeing the movies I want to see, hearing the music I want to hear, playing as many guitars as I can, and the obvious ones of seeing my children grow old, meeting their children, and spending a lifetime with my wife.

 

Living to me is not falling out of an airplane and/or climbing big things.

 

But this the path these guys chose, hopefully they are O.K.

 

Each person chooses their own path, some by not choosing. I am not questioning them attempting the trip they are on, nor would I question yours.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Each person chooses their own path, some by not choosing. I am not questioning them attempting the trip they are on, nor would I question yours.

 

 

You were a Native American in another life, weren't you?

[Texsox]

You were a Native American in another life, weren't you?

 

I am a native American now.

[Kid Gleason]

I am a native American now.

 

O.K., are we getting all technical here...or are you actually Indian? I've been told that "Indians" actually prefer being called "Indian" and actually are more offended by "Native American". I was told this by Owl Goingback, who is a great author. He's Russian.

[Texsox]

O.K., are we getting all technical here...or are you actually Indian? I've been told that "Indians" actually prefer being called "Indian" and actually are more offended by "Native American". I was told this by Owl Goingback, who is a great author. He's Russian.

 

LOL, I was getting technical. I was born in Chicago of German ancestory. But I believe that makes me a native American.

[Kid Gleason]

Yeah, I was going to say that I can't see your headdress in your avatar...only your hat and your package.

[NorthSideSox72]

These guys are in trouble because of a series of poor decisions. They decided to do Hood, which is a very difficult climb, chose the hardest possible route, did it in winter well off-season, and didn't carry survival gear. That is what doomed them - not the performance of the gear they brought.

 

O.K., are we getting all technical here...or are you actually Indian? I've been told that "Indians" actually prefer being called "Indian" and actually are more offended by "Native American". I was told this by Owl Goingback, who is a great author. He's Russian.

This is true, in my experience as well.

[Texsox]

These guys are in trouble because of a series of poor decisions. They decided to do Hood, which is a very difficult climb, chose the hardest possible route, did it in winter well off-season, and didn't carry survival gear. That is what doomed them - not the performance of the gear they brought.

 

 

This is true, in my experience as well.

 

It depends on what people are calling survival gear. Remember that term is often misused. From what I've read, winter climbs on Hood are not uncommon but definitely for the serious climbers only. I haven't read anything about these guys and their experience. I can't believe some novices attempted this, if that is the case, then it was a disaster waiting to happen.

[NorthSideSox72]

It depends on what people are calling survival gear. Remember that term is often misused. From what I've read, winter climbs on Hood are not uncommon but definitely for the serious climbers only. I haven't read anything about these guys and their experience. I can't believe some novices attempted this, if that is the case, then it was a disaster waiting to happen.

I cannot see how doing Hood's hardest ascent in winter, without overnight winter camping gear and some emergency food and equipment at the least, does not fall under the stupid decision category.

[Texsox]

I cannot see how doing Hood's hardest ascent in winter, without overnight winter camping gear and some emergency food and equipment at the least, does not fall under the stupid decision category.

 

I didn't read where they didn't have overnight gear, just that they didn't have "survival gear" which could mean a 15 pound First Aid kit, flashlights, and a portable radio. If they don't have sleeping bags, a stove, etc. then they did make a mistake that will likely cost them their lives. Light and fast usually means they didn't bring the North Face VE-25, giant propane stoves, satellite phones, MP3 players, and three Sherpas. Packs with some down mumy bags and a stove would be huge help right now.

 

I won't bust you on them needing food. They can go weeks without food. But not having someway to heat up snow so they have water to drink will mess them up.

[NorthSideSox72]

I didn't read where they didn't have overnight gear, just that they didn't have "survival gear" which could mean a 15 pound First Aid kit, flashlights, and a portable radio. If they don't have sleeping bags, a stove, etc. then they did make a mistake that will likely cost them their lives. Light and fast usually means they didn't bring the North Face VE-25, giant propane stoves, satellite phones, MP3 players, and three Sherpas. Packs with some down mumy bags and a stove would be huge help right now.

 

I won't bust you on them needing food. They can go weeks without food. But not having someway to heat up snow so they have water to drink will mess them up.

There is definitely some difference in what people consider "survival gear". To me, in that situation: sleeping bag, heat source, FA kit, and maybe food. On the food thing, yeah they can go a few days, but they need the energy to get out. And unless they have the training for it, they would struggle to find much food on Hood in December.

[Texsox]

There is definitely some difference in what people consider "survival gear". To me, in that situation: sleeping bag, heat source, FA kit, and maybe food. On the food thing, yeah they can go a few days, but they need the energy to get out. And unless they have the training for it, they would struggle to find much food on Hood in December.

 

bag/stove/food ration/map/compass/sunglasses/lip balm etc. seem like basic equipment to me. I wouldn't plan on finding any food on Hood. But at this point, survival is probably hunkering down in a snow cave, make yourself "big" and wait for a rescuer. They wouldn't need food for that. It takes water to digest the food and that could be a problem.

[NorthSideSox72]

bag/stove/food ration/map/compass/sunglasses/lip balm etc. seem like basic equipment to me. I wouldn't plan on finding any food on Hood. But at this point, survival is probably hunkering down in a snow cave, make yourself "big" and wait for a rescuer. They wouldn't need food for that. It takes water to digest the food and that could be a problem.

In a snow cave, water is no problem. The water may not be clean, but it would take many days before that took effect anyway (Giardiasis and its cousins have a 7-10 day gestation period).

 

Well Tex, somehow, we again ended up with our own thread about the outdoors.

[sox4lifeinPA]

In a snow cave, water is no problem. The water may not be clean, but it would take many days before that took effect anyway (Giardiasis and its cousins have a 7-10 day gestation period).

 

Well Tex, somehow, we again ended up with our own thread about the outdoors.

 

 

any of you been to the Appalachians?

[NorthSideSox72]

any of you been to the Appalachians?

Yup. I've done portions of the AT in TN, NC and VA. Its a pleasant but sometimes crowded highway of a trail. There is a neat cultural aspect to it though. And I am sure some sections are more empty than the ones I've seen.

 

Never done any of it in PA, though, I am afraid. I'd love to do the whole AT sometime, actually.

[Texsox]

In a snow cave, water is no problem. The water may not be clean, but it would take many days before that took effect anyway (Giardiasis and its cousins have a 7-10 day gestation period).

 

Well Tex, somehow, we again ended up with our own thread about the outdoors.

 

I would think they need a stove to melt enough snow. And hopefully it's a whitegas stove, I've known container stoves to balk in low temps and high elevations.

 

No to the AT.

[NorthSideSox72]

I would think they need a stove to melt enough snow. And hopefully it's a whitegas stove, I've known container stoves to balk in low temps and high elevations.

 

No to the AT.

The temperature inside a cave will be above freezing, more likely than not. You just need to grab some snow, put it in a bag or something, and keep it inside the cave.

[Texsox]

The temperature inside a cave will be above freezing, more likely than not. You just need to grab some snow, put it in a bag or something, and keep it inside the cave.

 

I could be wrong, but I thought it was above freezing, but generally not warm enough to melt snow. If that was the case, a snow cave would be a miserable place to stay warm, you would be wet? No?