Daisuke Matsuzaka signs

[Chisoxfn]

NEW YORK (AP) -- Major league teams wishing to sign Japanese pitcher Daisuke Matsuzaka must submit their offers by 5 p.m. EST next Wednesday -- and the Seattle Mariners won't be bidding.

 

Matsuzaka was officially put up for auction Thursday by the Seibu Lions of Japan's Pacific League. After the bidding has closed, the Lions will be told of the highest offer, without being informed of which team made it. The Lions have until Nov. 14 to accept.

 

If the offer is accepted, the big league team that made the bid is notified and gets a 30-day window to reach a contract agreement with Matsuzaka, who is represented by agent Scott Boras. The Lions only receive the payment from the major league team if Matsuzaka is signed to a big league contract.

 

The New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox and New York Mets are thought to be interested in Matsuzaka.

 

Matsuzaka was MVP of the World Baseball Classic in March, then went 17-5 with a 2.13 ERA and 200 strikeouts for the Lions. He throws in the high-90s mph, has good offspeed pitches and is known for the "gyroball," a pitch that breaks to the left.

 

Seattle general manager Bill Bavasi said Thursday that the Mariners won't bid. Bavasi said the decision was made by Nintendo Co. president Hiroshi Yamauchi, the boss of team chairman Howard Lincoln.

 

"Mr. Yamauchi has decided that the Mariners will not be participating in the bid process, a decision with which our baseball department concurs," Bavasi said. "We will continue to pursue other ways other ways to improve the team, specifically our pitching."

[santo=dorf]

So is it a silent auction, or do teams get notified when they are outbid?

 

Hmm, I think I should start an ebay auction. It would get some attention

[CWSGuy406]

FWIW, I think the posting fee doesn't come out of the direct payroll money. I thought I remember reading that when Seattle bid for Ichiro, the posting fee money came from money used for the scoreboard (or something of the sort).

 

Just saying that if Kenny really felt that Matsuzaka is/was the real deal, and if he could find reasonable deals for two of the Sox current starters not named McCarthy, he could win this bid, IMO. More or less, I'd guess that a big portion of the initial posting bid might come from US Cellular and Reinsdorf & Co.

[Chisoxfn]

Ya, its a complete silent auction. Seibu (who is the team posting him) doesn't even know which team wins the bid, they are just told what the highest bid is ($ wise) and than decide whether to accept or decline it.

 

At that point if its accepted, than whichever team won the bid would have a month to negotiate. If they come to terms on a contract than they have to pay Seibu but if the two teams can't reach an agreement, Seibu gets no money and Matsuzaka goes back to the Japanese league.

 

I always wonder if a team like the Red Sox or Yanks could just bid an insane amt to block the player from the other team, but than have absolutely no intention on making a realistic bid to sign the player, thus forcing him to stay in Japan. I'd hope Selig would prevent such a thing, but if I were the Yanks or BoSox and had fear I was going to lose out on the player, I'd definately consider doing it.

[That funky motion]

FWIW, I think the posting fee doesn't come out of the direct payroll money. I thought I remember reading that when Seattle bid for Ichiro, the posting fee money came from money used for the scoreboard (or something of the sort).

 

Just saying that if Kenny really felt that Matsuzaka is/was the real deal, and if he could find reasonable deals for two of the Sox current starters not named McCarthy, he could win this bid, IMO. More or less, I'd guess that a big portion of the initial posting bid might come from US Cellular and Reinsdorf & Co.

Not with Boras as his agent.

[knightni]

Does Daisuke's new owner get to change his name to "Toby"?

 

It feels that way...

[witesoxfan]

Not with Boras as his agent.

 

Boras really can't do much. You post a bid for him, which Boras has nothing to do with, and then you negotiate with the pitcher, where Boras can't use other teams for leverage.

 

Boras as his agent will probably get him somewhere around 4/$52 or something like that, but it's not going to make him completely unattainable.

[whitesoxfan101]

I'm surprised the AP mentioned the gyroball, even though it hasn't even been confirmed to actually exist yet.

[Milkman delivers]

I did not know that Boras was his agent.

[Soxbadger]

The posting system completely screws the player and his ability to negotiate a contract.

 

It also will handcuff Boras, because according to the article the only way the team has to pay the posting fee, is if they actually sign Matsuzaka.

 

A smart team would put in a big posting bid, and then low ball the hell out of the contract negotiation. That way only 1 of 2 things can happen, A) the player signs for your offer, B ) they go back to Japan and you lose no money and have effectively prevented the player from coming here.

 

Boras will be faced with accepting an offer, or sending his player back to Japan. My guess is even if the offer is some what below market, he would have to take it in the end. The whole key is winning the bidding war, because then you have exclusive rights to negotiation and can basically rake Boras over the coals.

 

Its doubtful you could get a long term contract out of this scenario, but you could probably get a 2 year deal, because after the 2 years Matsuzaka would atleast be outside of the Japanese posting system. Otherwise he goes back this year, and then next year the same thing could happen.

 

Its very backward.

Edited November 3, 2006 by Soxbadger

[knightni]

Boras is excellent at playing teams against themselves though.

[Soxbadger]

Yeah but in this case if he loses, his cliennt goes back to Japan with nothing, and then has to do the whole process again next year.

 

Not to mention he cant use anything like "Well another team has a better offer."

 

His only bargaining tool is:

 

If you dont give him the contract he wants, he goes back to Japan.

 

Not really a great place to be if your an agent.

Edited November 3, 2006 by Soxbadger

[knightni]

They take the biggest offer.

 

I'm sure Boras can do some cajoling of the participants though, to make their offer go up.

[Soxbadger]

If I was a team that was looking to spend 10-15mil on a free agent pitcher, I would easily put some of that money into a bid on posting.

 

Then no one but me can sign that player, if Boras wants to play games, the player goes back to Japan and I lose nothing and have effectively prevented him from going to another team.

 

The only reason Boras has done well is generally he has players who people believe are "irreplaceable". Its not that he has some secret negotiation tactic.

[knightni]

Its not that he has some secret negotiation tactic.

 

[TLAK]

Wow, you learn something everyday, I didn't understand the posting system before this thread.

 

Posting System

From BR Bullpen

The Posting System is a player transfer system between the NPB and the MLB. It was created to allow teams to receive compensation for players who would like to play in the MLB before becoming a free agent and to avoid situations like those of Hideo Nomo or Alfonso Soriano, who had used loopholes in a prior NPB-MLB agreement to switch countries.

 

Process

A player may be posted from November 1 to March 1. For a player to be posted, both the team and player must agree on the posting; usually the player requests to be posted. The team then notifies the NPB Commissioner's Office that the player will be posted, who then notifies the MLB, which notifies all of its teams. The MLB teams then have four days to submit a "silent" bid for the right to negotiate a contract with the player to the MLB Commissioner's Office. After the fourth day, the NPB team (via the Commissioner's Office) is notified of the highest bidder and has four to accept or reject the bid. If the bid is accepted the winning MLB team has thirty (30) days to reach an agreement with the player. If the bid is rejected, the player is not posted.

 

If the player signs a contract with the MLB team by the end of the signing period, then the player becomes part of that MLB team and the NPB team receives the bid money. If the player does not sign a contract with the MLB team by the end of the signing period, the player is returned to the NPB team and the NPB team does not receive the bid money.

[DBAHO]

I'm interested to see how high of a bid Tom Hicks and the Rangers make here.

 

And if I'm a Seattle Mariners Fan, I'm majorly pissed at Bill Bavasi and Ownership for not even attempting to make a bid here.

[aboz56]

So what stops a team from putting in an outrageous bid and then not even attempting to sign the player?

[KansasSoxFan]

This system was agreed to by MLB and NPB, but not the Japanese players' union, IIRC. Their players' union is weak. Robert Whiting has written that some people in the MLB players' union believe that this system is illegal under US law. The union would supposedly be willing to help a Japanese player challenge the sytstem, if they could find someone willing.

[CWSGuy406]

So what stops a team from putting in an outrageous bid and then not even attempting to sign the player?

 

I know TLAK posted the rules above, but I thought that I read that if a team attempted to do something like that, first, it would burn some bridges between that team and the Japanese league/team, and second, the Japanese team/league is allowed to choose the second highest bid.

 

Who wins the posting? I'll say Cubs or Yanks.

[Flash Tizzle]

Is there any indication which teams have currently placed bids? I know the process is secretive, but I thought information would have surfaced as to the identity of bidding teams. I know the White Sox aren't one, that's for sure. They wouldn't have done anything whether or not Boras was involved, and personally, that's rather upsetting to me. I would have definitely accepted the risk of signing Daisuke. Trade two starting pitchers, insert Brandon, and suddenly the net salary increase isn't so high. Oh, but know cares? We're good with what we currently have. Rather go for it under this "window of opportunity" with the current rotation entact. LOL.

 

I have to admit, though, I would definitely cheer for the Cubs to successfully sign Daisuke. For one, his presence in the National League reeps the obvious benefit of avoiding New York or Boston. Two, even with Daisuke, Cubs would only have a reliable rotation two-deep. Offense is still rather soft. Contractual issues with Ramirez would have to resolved quickly. Last point -- and this is personal -- I'd love the opportunity to watch him pitch everygame.

[CWSGuy406]

I have to admit, though, I would definitely cheer for the Cubs to successfully sign Daisuke. For one, his presence in the National League reeps the obvious benefit of avoiding New York or Boston. Two, even with Daisuke, Cubs would only have a reliable rotation two-deep. Offense is still rather soft. Contractual issues with Ramirez would have to resolved quickly. Last point -- and this is personal -- I'd love the opportunity to watch him pitch everygame.

 

RichHill3.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 4, 2006 -> 08:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

RichHill3.

I'm not going to let a few months during garbage time convince me he is a solid pitcher. Yes he had some impressive AAA numbers, but he's almost as old as Jon Garland and really only has one pitch.

 

Aboz, in section 13 of the MLB-Japan agreement, it states the MLB Comissioner can oversee the bidding process, and can revoke the highest bidder's negotiation rights and give it to the next highest bidder all for "the best interests of professional baseball."

[whitesoxfan101]

And if I'm a Seattle Mariners Fan, I'm majorly pissed at Bill Bavasi and Ownership for not even attempting to make a bid here.

 

I wouldn't be. 30 million dollars just for the right to negotiate with a guy that's never faced a batter in an MLB game and has been overused? No thanks.

 

RichHill3.

 

A 26 year old career minor leaguer with 2 pitches that had a couple good months in meaningless games isn't a solid 3 spot in any rotation I'd like to have.

[CWSGuy406]

A 26 year old career minor leaguer with 2 pitches that had a couple good months in meaningless games isn't a solid 3 spot in any rotation I'd like to have.

 

I'm not going to let a few months during garbage time convince me he is a solid pitcher. Yes he had some impressive AAA numbers, but he's almost as old as Jon Garland and really only has one pitch.

 

Yeah, he is quite old for a kid with his short amount of service time, but he's done pretty well for a two-pitch pitcher. His K/9 numbers are nasty. His control is a little whack, and it's something to look at heading into next year. I don't think he'll totally fall off the earth, though; he should be a fine number four next year in the NL.

 

Flash said "reliable", nothing more. Going into next year, Hill will be a fairly reasonable bet to give the Cubs 175 innings (give or take) of an ERA around 4.30.