Daisuke Matsuzaka signs

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 15, 2006 -> 05:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just out of curiosity...anyone know if/how much the White Sox had to post for Iguchi?

 

I believe Iguchi was a free agent meaning because he wasn't under contract with a team in Japan, the White Sox were able to sign him, just as they would any other free agent, all the while giving no compensation for him considering he changed leagues.

[witesoxfan]

Well. First of all, because you asked me directly, I'll respond. The White Sox are rumored to be shopping 2-4 of there starting pitchers. You can never have enough pitching, which is why spending a dollar amount like that to acquire Matsuzaka would be a good move, both on the field and off the field for the White Sox.

 

The Sox are not shopping 2-4 of their starting pitchers with the intent of moving 2-4 of their starting pitchers. KW is shopping 5 starting pitchers - the 5 he can - with the intention of moving 1, or 2 if he can get an MLB ready starting pitcher in return in trade. That's pretty much it.

 

And $30 million for a luxury is not a good move, ever. That's what Matsuzaka would have been to the White Sox.

 

Second of all, every time I hear someone say Masuzaka is costing $25M+ per year I wonder if I'm getting more stupid just by reading this thread. How will they be spending $175-200 million this year on the payroll? Do you count the White Sox changing there seats from blue to green at the Cell in this payroll? Or how about the White Sox signing Joe Borchard to a record setting deal.. does that count towards the payroll? Last time I checked green seats weren't 1 of the 25.

 

First of all, what I'm not sure you are understanding is that the Red Sox MLB PAYROLL will be anywhere from $125-150 mill. They will SPEND anywhere from $175-200 mill.

 

Secondly, the Red Sox current payroll is around $95-100 mill, and I'd assume you'd agree. Add the $50 million from Mats, and it's up to about $150. Include an estimated 3/$30 deal for Mats, and it's up to about $160. Include the other additions and subtractions from the team, and you're probably looking at another $15-40 million in additional money spent, and they are up to $175-200 mill So, by taking out the Matsuzaka bid, the Red Sox payroll is $125-150 million, but the actual amount of money they spent was $175-200 mill, meaning that over a quarter of the money they will spend in regards to player personnel will be spent on the bid for Matsuzaka.

 

After this year, that money spent is no longer figured into the payroll, because they've already paid it, so they are back down to $125-150.

 

 

Verstehen?

[ptatc]

Verstehen?

 

Ich verstehst du.

[witesoxfan]

Ich verstehst du.

 

awwwwwwwwwwwwesome

[SoxFanForever]

The Ichiro bid really backfired for Seattle.

The posting fee for Ichiro was $13 million dollars. A little different than $51.1

[RockRaines]

I still cant believe that the most money in the MLB for one player is going towards an unproven Japanese player, who is rumored to be overworked. Its almost unreal.

[Dick Allen]

I may be totally wrong, but I think the Red Sox bid so much not to sign this guy, but to keep him away from the Yankees for at least a year. If he's a free agent next year and doesn't have to be posted, there probably is nothing that would stop him from being a Yankee. I just can't see where paying the posting fee plus the salary he would command could make any fiscal sense.

[Balta1701]

I may be totally wrong, but I think the Red Sox bid so much not to sign this guy, but to keep him away from the Yankees for at least a year. If he's a free agent next year and doesn't have to be posted, there probably is nothing that would stop him from being a Yankee. I just can't see where paying the posting fee plus the salary he would command could make any fiscal sense.

See, there's a few traps there though. First of all, if the Red Sox did that, and did not negotiate in good faith, they risk hurting not only the Red Sox, but the reputation of MLB all throughout Asia. That would be a bad thing business-wise, especially for the Red Sox.

 

And secondly, the commissioner of baseball does have the right to step in and allow another team to join in the bidding if he feels the first team isn't negotiating in good faith, so if the Red Sox don't sign him, he may well drop to the Yankees anyway.

[ptatc]

The posting fee for Ichiro was $13 million dollars. A little different than $51.1

 

If you have the money who cares?

[redandwhite]

Am I talking to a brick wall? Wite, I like you man, but this is going way over you head.

 

How on earth are you going to add the posting fee into the payroll when it doesn't count as payroll? It makes zero sense to me.

 

This is why I didn't want to continue with this nonsense. I guess I'll be counting the money the White Sox spent on renovations the last five years, as well as money spent on developing the farm, and all other moneys that don't belong included in the payroll included in the payroll.

 

We're not going to agree on this, as I mentioned reading people's opinions of this matter is making us all more dumb. The Red Sox can be "stupid idiots" but I guess every other team in the Majors other than the White Sox that bid outrageous figures as well, only to miss out by a couple million dollars are.. lucky? By your knowledge, the White Sox are smart and every other team in baseball isn't.

 

Blah Blah Blah.

[witesoxfan]

Am I talking to a brick wall? Wite, I like you man, but this is going way over you head.

 

How on earth are you going to add the posting fee into the payroll when it doesn't count as payroll? It makes zero sense to me.

 

I'm not counting it as the payroll. Their payroll is $125-150 mill. They will not pay a luxury tax.

 

They will spend $175-200 million this year. $50 million of that is not spent toward the payroll.

 

I'm not so sure what's hard to understand about that.

[RockRaines]

We're not going to agree on this, as I mentioned reading people's opinions of this matter is making us all more dumb. The Red Sox can be "stupid idiots" but I guess every other team in the Majors other than the White Sox that bid outrageous figures as well, only to miss out by a couple million dollars are.. lucky? By your knowledge, the White Sox are smart and every other team in baseball isn't.

 

Blah Blah Blah.

you were making ok points until this rant. We know that the Red Sox are your team, we know you will support them, enough already.

[redandwhite]

It's no rant, my man.

 

It just is mind boggling why the Red Sox are so stupid when about 2/3's of the league put in a legitimate bid. Are the Red Sox stupid for understanding the appeal of such a high caliber player and bidding accordingly? I just don't really understand it.

 

That's all.

 

We at ESPN.com surveyed 20 general managers, assistant GMs, and assorted scouts and personnel people for their takes on six hot stove questions of interest. Here's how they responded:

 

1. Given a choice between Barry Zito and Daisuke Matsuzaka, which free-agent pitcher do you prefer?

 

Responses: Matsuzaka 13, Zito 5 and two undecided.

 

Matsuzaka's World Baseball Classic performance showed he could thrive on the big stage, and he wins points for mound presence. He has better stuff and command than Zito, and he's two years younger.

 

The biggest red flag with Matsuzaka is his heavy workload in Japan, although one scout observed that he has a sufficiently strong lower-body foundation to support it. Matsuzaka will have to adapt to a new way of life, with unfamiliar hitters and incredible pressure and scrutiny in Boston -- a city that can be a challenge for any player.

 

"He's a bulldog," one National League assistant GM said. "He'll come over and compete. But he pitches up in the zone a little bit, and I wonder if he's going to be as great as advertised. The way some people make him sound, he's going to be a No. 1 starter and win 20 games right away. He'll have to elevate his game to do that."

Edited November 16, 2006 by redandwhite

[whitesoxfan101]

It's no rant, my man.

 

It just is mind boggling why the Red Sox are so stupid when about 2/3's of the league put in a legitimate bid. Are the Red Sox stupid for understanding the appeal of such a high caliber player and bidding accordingly? I just don't really understand it.

 

That's all.

 

Is that supposed to be convincing? Most GM's in baseball are complete morons, and you know that was well as I do. Their love for the gyroball only confirms to me how stupid this all is.

[witesoxfan]

"20 general managers, assistant GMs, and assorted scouts and personnel people"

 

So what's stopping them from taking 10 from the Yankees and 10 from the Red Sox? I don't trust the integrity of ESPN, and never will.

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 03:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is that supposed to be convincing? Most GM's in baseball are complete morons, and you know that was well as I do. Their love for the gyroball only confirms to me how stupid this all is.

 

Most GM's in baseball are complete morons.

 

As if you'd be better off as some scouts, coaches, or general managers. That might be one of the stupidest things I've read over here.

 

Whose love for the gyroball? What are you talking about? Every report I've read has said that the gyroball is a myth but that it won't matter because he has four plus pitches, including a devastating change-up as well as this forkball like pitch that some idiots call the gyroball.

[RME JICO]

Rumors are saying that he just signed for $45 over 3 yrs. This is coming from: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/11/matsuzaka_signe.html

 

which says it was reported on EPSN radio in Boston.

 

So $96 million for 3 years? Wow what a great deal at $32 million a year if it is true.

Edited November 16, 2006 by RME JICO

[knightni]

So $96 million for 3 years? Wow what a great deal at $32 million a year if it is true.

 

Definitely Yankee Math.

[vandy125]

Am I talking to a brick wall? Wite, I like you man, but this is going way over you head.

 

How on earth are you going to add the posting fee into the payroll when it doesn't count as payroll? It makes zero sense to me.

 

This is why I didn't want to continue with this nonsense. I guess I'll be counting the money the White Sox spent on renovations the last five years, as well as money spent on developing the farm, and all other moneys that don't belong included in the payroll included in the payroll.

 

I see what you are talking about with it not counting towards the payroll, but when you compare it to renovations, it does not fit in either. How long do you feel those renovations will last? How long will this pitcher last? $51 million for 3 years of service sounds a lot worse than $51 million for 15-20 years of service.

[whitesoxin']

So where does the original $51 million go? Does it go to the Japanese team or the pitcher? I haven't been keeping up on baseball lately, it's been all about the NFL.

[RockRaines]

Basically this thread is one of the gayest of the gays.

[knightni]

It wasn't official though until you posted Rock.

 

[RME JICO]

So where does the original $51 million go? Does it go to the Japanese team or the pitcher? I haven't been keeping up on baseball lately, it's been all about the NFL.

The $51 million goes to the Japanese team (Seibu Lions).

[redandwhite]

Can MLBTraderumors.com please be banned? That website is just ridiculous. Yea, a deal is going to be struck in the first few days...

 

Thought this was interesting:

 

"1) He's one of the top five or 10 pitchers in the world. 2) He's only 26 and has many years ahead of him. 3) We have no idea how much of that $51.11 million is real money; it's very possible that Seibu will kick some of that in towards Matsuzaka's contract to make sure a deal gets done. 4) It's an extremely unique situation, where a guy this good, this young and with this track record goes on the open market with exclusive signing rights (as opposed to just becoming a free agent). So under those circumstances, yes, he's a $100 million pitcher. Imagine if Johan Santana were posted -- the money would be very similar. People are up in arms about the dollars, but the Red Sox have more money to spend than anybody but the Yankees. To compare it to a normal free agent, that's just silly, because it's apples and oranges."

 

***

 

The Red Sox are in more of a position of power than I thought.

[ptatc]

Can MLBTraderumors.com please be banned? That website is just ridiculous. Yea, a deal is going to be struck in the first few days...

 

Thought this was interesting:

 

"1) He's one of the top five or 10 pitchers in the world. 2) He's only 26 and has many years ahead of him. 3) We have no idea how much of that $51.11 million is real money; it's very possible that Seibu will kick some of that in towards Matsuzaka's contract to make sure a deal gets done. 4) It's an extremely unique situation, where a guy this good, this young and with this track record goes on the open market with exclusive signing rights (as opposed to just becoming a free agent). So under those circumstances, yes, he's a $100 million pitcher. Imagine if Johan Santana were posted -- the money would be very similar. People are up in arms about the dollars, but the Red Sox have more money to spend than anybody but the Yankees. To compare it to a normal free agent, that's just silly, because it's apples and oranges."

 

***

 

The Red Sox are in more of a position of power than I thought.

 

I love quotes like this. I know it's semantics but the definition of unique is one of a kind. Sothis means it's extremely one of a kind as opposed to a regular one of a kind. Sorry, I'm in the middle of grading papers and even at the graduate level I find these phrases.

Edited November 16, 2006 by ptatc