Daisuke Matsuzaka signs

[Jordan4life_2007]

No money has changed hands of yet. If a deal is struck, the Red Sox would be inclined to send over $51.1 million dollars. If a deal is not struck, then as we currently sit, no money would be done away with.

 

Thanks

[RME JICO]

It would seem that Boston would be better off not striking a deal. They wouldn't have to pay out a dime and the Yankees would not get him either.

 

If they do strike a deal, they will be out a ton of cash, and probably out of the running for other top tier players.

[3 BeWareTheNewSox 5]

So the Red Sox are cheaters now? haha.

 

Here's a cookie:

 

 

Zzzzz, when the Red Sox were rumored to get ARod, their fans had no problem with it. When they Yankees got him, they went on their little raves how the Yankees were ruining baseball and the evil empire and all that. More like hypocrites

[witesoxfan]

Not only would 51.1 million dollars not be enough to ink the both of them for two seasons combined

 

So why does $51.1 mill have to cover 2 seasons? Last I checked, the Red Sox are only spending that $51.1 mill THIS season.

 

And the Red Sox will likely end up giving Matsuzaka a deal around 3/$30 or so, which is $81 mill for 3 years. If you can't get Zito and Schmidt for 3 years at less then $81 mill, I'd be shocked as hell.

 

because they would be right near or possibly over the Luxury Tax, something they have come out and said they wouldn't do.

 

So they're willing to pay more than the luxury tax, so long as they don't break MLB rules and actually pay against the luxury tax. Oh k, there's nothing ethically wrong about that at all...

 

...other than the fact that it's a ridiculously stupid business decision, but carry on.

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Nov 15, 2006 -> 02:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So why does $51.1 mill have to cover 2 seasons? Last I checked, the Red Sox are only spending that $51.1 mill THIS season.

 

And the Red Sox will likely end up giving Matsuzaka a deal around 3/$30 or so, which is $81 mill for 3 years. If you can't get Zito and Schmidt for 3 years at less then $81 mill, I'd be shocked as hell.

 

 

 

So they're willing to pay more than the luxury tax, so long as they don't break MLB rules and actually pay against the luxury tax. Oh k, there's nothing ethically wrong about that at all...

 

...other than the fact that it's a ridiculously stupid business decision, but carry on.

 

The Red Sox aren't spending $51.1 million dollars for one season. They are spending $51.1 million to have him for 3-5 years. You aren't making a lick of sense in this regard.

 

As I mentioned, you can't simply combine the posting fee and the contract.

 

If you think signing Matsuzaka isn't atleast a mediocre business decision, you're wrong. The fact that it could be a top of the line on field decision makes it a good move altogether.

 

Let's say $30 million won it. Lets say the White Sox were that winning team. What would your opinion of the move be?

[witesoxfan]

The Red Sox aren't spending $51.1 million dollars for one season. They are spending $51.1 million to have him for 3-5 years. You aren't making a lick of sense in this regard.

 

As I mentioned, you can't simply combine the posting fee and the contract.

 

Why can't you combine the bid and the contract, when in fact, they are both being paid? They will likely end up spending anywhere between $80-100 mill on Matsuzaka, with the bid and contract. Only $30-50 of that will go to Mats, and only 30-50 will count against their salary, but the fact remains they will have paid that much for him.

 

If you think signing Matsuzaka isn't atleast a mediocre business decision, you're wrong. The fact that it could be a top of the line on field decision makes it a good move altogether.

 

It's risky as f***, and takes nerves of steel or brains of s***...in this case, it's probably both.

 

It may be generalizing, but I don't care - there are very few Japanese starters who have come to the MLB and had a long stretch of success. Nomo had 4 good years in America, and was otherwise mediocre. Tomo Ohka's been a great middle of the rotation starter his whole career, but pretty much nothing else. Ishii was mediocre, and beyond that, you run into names like Irabu, Yoshii, and Suzuki.

 

Let's say $30 million won it. Lets say the White Sox were that winning team. What would your opinion of the move be?

 

It's $30 million on a pitcher who's never pitched in the MLB while also killing quite a bit of the offseason's spending. It's risky as f***, and takes nerves of steel or brains of s***...in that case, probably both.

 

If it's $15 mill, it's quite a bit different.

[redandwhite]

NAPLES, Fla. - Agent Scott Boras said he always thought that a team with a TV network would land his talented right-handed client, Deisuke Matsuzaka. Though the Sox and Boras still have to negotiate a contract which could get a little bumpy along the way, he was neither surprised that it was Boston or that the bid rose as high as $51.1 million.

As he strolled through the lobby of the Grande Resort Hotel early this morning Boras felt the Red Sox understood the value of Matsuzaka's celebrity in Japan and how they can turn that celebrity into cold hard cash.

Boras said that his sources in Japan estimated that the Yankees make about $21 million off Matsui through advertising and marketing. With that blueprint in place, the Red Sox merely followed it by trying to obtain their own Japanese star with dollar-power.

Asked about the large bid, Boras said, "The first thing it reflects is the value of one of the world's best pitchers. It reflected his domination in Japan and the WBC. It will certainly have a great impact on baseball on the field and an impact on internationalizing major league baseball and increasing revenues both in the advertising and marketing area.

"There's going to be a great deal of interest (in Matsuzaka) because he's had a great career in Japan and when and if the time for him is to play in the major leagues comes I think it's going to draw great attention. He throws 95 and he has four pitches. He is a player who comes here with a resume and a track record that transfers. The hitters who come here there was always a question about whether their power would be whether 35 home runs and a .350 batting average would transfer in the major leagues. I think Ichiro has demonstrated that a great player in Japan can be a great player here. He has a chance to have an immediate impact on a major league team," Boras said.

Boras said that Matsuzaka, who was flying into Los Angeles today where Boras was expected to meet with him this weekend, was also going to pay a visit to Boston.

Sox GM Theo Epstein invited Boras and Matsuzaka's wife, a Japanese TV reporter, and family to Boston, but early this morning Boras said he had yet too discuss the matter with Matsuzaka, who had committed to a Seibu Lions event next Tuesday.

Asked what his reaction was to Boston winning the bid, Boras said " think his reaction was that he is looking through the process. He respects the Red Sox organization and he respects the Seibu Lions. He understands that this is a business relationship that he is examining this process for himself."

The tact Boras will take with this contract negotiating will be interesting. As much as there is a blueprint for Matsui's financial impact for the Yankees, there is also a blueprint for major Japanese players' contracts.

While Matsuzaka would be considered a rookie if signed by the Sox and technically under Boston's control for six years, his contract will likely contain a similar clause to Matsui's which essentially would make him a free-agent after the final year of the contract, which will most likely be three or four years.

The clause basically does not allow the team - the Red Sox or the Yankees - to be able to offer arbitration. Therefore, the player either has to be a free-agent after the terms of the deal or a new deal must be agreed upon.

Asked whether Roy Oswalt's five-year, $70 million deal would be a starting point for discussions, Boras said that it would not because Oswalt wasn't a free-agent.

Boras, who began talks with Epstein yesterday and also discussed other clients like J.D. Drew with Epstein said that he and Epstein "have always had a good working relationship along with John Henry and Larry (Lucchino). It's never been anything but a creative process."

Among the issues that will have to be resolved is how to make Matsuzaka and his family feel comfortable in Boston. Matsuzaka' and his wife have a small child. His wife does speak some English, but it appears that the Sox will have to bring aboard an interpreter and a public relations person to handle the local media as well as the Japanese media which will be making Boston's its home.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/reds..._thinks_so.html

 

Basically,

 

Boras, like everybody else, thinks the Red Sox will make money from this move.

[witesoxfan]

Boras, like everybody else, thinks the Red Sox will make money from this move.

 

If Boras told me the sky was blue and the grass was green, I wouldn't believe him.

[RockRaines]

I am your father.

 

God, I wonder what the White Sox bid. Lets say the White Sox won the bid for $30 million dollars. What would you say then?

 

And wipe that chocolate off your face.

Can you believe that your team will pay this guy over 20 million a year to pitch for them? Its almost unreal.

[RME JICO]

It's not like Boras is going to come out and say he is ripping a team off. He is going to spin everything into a positive to get as much money out of the deal as he can.

 

This part of the quote was hilarious:

 

"The first thing it reflects is the value of one of the world's best pitchers"

 

One of the world's best pitchers?

[southsider2k5]

A couple of things... I agree. Boston has completely lost the right to b**** about anything monetary related when it comes to baseball. They are now officially the New England Yankees.

 

Also Red/White, if you ever want to know why people get crappy with you so quickly, go back and read this thread like you were the other side of the fence. Put all of your obvious biases aside, if you can, and think how you would have reacted. Then next time you feel picked on, think back to here. You reap what you sow.

[redandwhite]

In my opinion, the bias in this one is coming only from the side of you White Sox fans. This will most likely be my last post on the subject, but a few things need to be said.

 

- 20 million per year won't be payed to him per year to pitch, so that's false.

 

- While 50 million is a ton of money, odds are the White Sox bid something in the 25-30 million dollar range. Had he gone to them, I find it hard to believe you'd all be b****ing and moaning as you are here.

 

- Scott Boras coming out and saying he thinks the Red Sox will make money isn't the tell all, end all thing here.. I, along with many other well respected sports columnists, are in agreement that this move, regardless of if it's 50 or 100 million dollars, is a pretty darn good one.

 

- I view this as an offseason renovation to Fenway that is done in hopes of bettering my Fenway and Red Sox experience. I'm not going to lash out at John Henry for spending his money this way, first of all, it's his money, and second of all he's as rich as he is for making these type of business savvy moves. It's comical that people my age, sitting in there parent's basement, are knocking this mans move.

 

- I can be pissed off that the Yankee payroll is up around $200 million dollars because the Red Sox will never come close to that figure. There is also a good chance that the Red Sox Opening Day payroll will be within $5 million dollars of the White Sox payroll, going along with this, White Sox fans should be forbidden to b**** about either the Red Sox or the Yankees, or the financial system in baseball in general.

 

I have a class in ten minutes.

[bkmoney]

"- 20 million per year won't be payed to him per year to pitch, so that's false."

 

yea but 20 mil per year is being paid FOR him to pitch, so whats the difference?

Edited November 15, 2006 by bkmoney

[RME JICO]

To offset some of the costs of the Matsuzaka deal, the Boston Red Sox have made some adjustments for advertising purposes. Things to look for in 2007:

 

1. Fenway Park will now be referred to as Yenway Park

2. The Green Monster will now be called Godzilla

3. The Pesky Pole will be called the Fuji Pole

4. Hot Dogs will be replaced with Wasabi

5. All players will drive Toyota's

6. The 7th Inning Stretch will be replaced with a Sumo match on the mound

[Gene Honda Civic]

- While 50 million is a ton of money, odds are the White Sox bid something in the 25-30 million dollar range. Had he gone to them, I find it hard to believe you'd all be b****ing and moaning as you are here.

The Sox did not bother to submit a bid. Find me any reputable publication that says otherwise. They had no interest in participating in the process, using a direct quote from Kenny, "and that has everything to do with his representation."

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(RME JICO @ Nov 15, 2006 -> 11:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To offset some of the costs of the Matsuzaka deal, the Boston Red Sox have made some adjustments for advertising purposes. Things to look for in 2007:

 

1. Fenway Park will now be referred to as Yenway Park

2. The Green Monster will now be called Godzilla

3. The Pesky Pole will be called the Fuji Pole

4. Hot Dogs will be replaced with Wasabi

5. All players will drive Toyota's

6. The 7th Inning Stretch will be replaced with a Sumo match on the mound

Good stuff.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6173822

Even better stuff. I guess Michael Rosenberg is just aother biased White Sox fan.

[witesoxfan]

- While 50 million is a ton of money, odds are the White Sox bid something in the 25-30 million dollar range. Had he gone to them, I find it hard to believe you'd all be b****ing and moaning as you are here.

 

Why would the Sox spend $25-30 million when they have 6 starters as it is?

 

- I can be pissed off that the Yankee payroll is up around $200 million dollars because the Red Sox will never come close to that figure. There is also a good chance that the Red Sox Opening Day payroll will be within $5 million dollars of the White Sox payroll, going along with this, White Sox fans should be forbidden to b**** about either the Red Sox or the Yankees, or the financial system in baseball in general.

 

The Red Sox are going to end up spending anywhere from $175-200 million this year, even if "only" $125-150 of it will be towards their payroll. How is that any different from the Yankees spending $200 million in payroll?

[ptatc]

I'd say that was a potential 30 million dollar waste if they did. I want no part of a Japanese player that has done NOTHING in the U.S. that I have to "bid" on just to get a shot to sign.

 

The Ichiro bid really backfired for Seattle.

[fathom]

The Ichiro bid really backfired for Seattle.

 

HUGE difference between Japanese hitter and pitcher though. Japanese pitchers are notorious for the incredible amount of pitches they throw early in their career, and many of them lose their velocity sooner rather than later (compared to pitchers from USA/Dominican, etc.).

[ptatc]

HUGE difference between Japanese hitter and pitcher though. Japanese pitchers are notorious for the incredible amount of pitches they throw early in their career, and many of them lose their velocity sooner rather than later (compared to pitchers from USA/Dominican, etc.).

 

I understand this. However a possible stud pitcher in his prime is also more worth the risk to obtain than any hitter. In order to reap great rewards often great risks must be taken. (unlike the Sox drafting philosophy)

[whitesoxfan101]

The Ichiro bid really backfired for Seattle.

 

You aren't really comparing the 2 are you?? Ichiro plays 5 times as much as Matsuzaka, the bid wasn't anywhere near this egregious (and the contract wasn't nearly as crazy as this one will be), and to say that is really beyond apples and oranges. Just throwing out 50 millon dollars up front because somebody might be a stud is stupid ass business.

[southsider2k5]

The Ichiro bid really backfired for Seattle.

 

There is a big difference between being the first positional player to comeover, and being in a long line of pitchers who have come over.

[ptatc]

You aren't really comparing the 2 are you?? Ichiro plays 5 times as much as Matsuzaka, the bid wasn't anywhere near this egregious (and the contract wasn't nearly as crazy as this one will be), and to say that is really beyond apples and oranges. Just throwing out 50 millon dollars up front because somebody might be a stud is stupid ass business.

 

I am comparing the two. While I agree the amount of money is ridiculous, How much is a potential top of the rotation starter worth? I don't care if Ichiro plays 5 times as much the game is still pitching. If you want to play the "how much he plays game" how many pitches is the pitcher involved in and how many pitches is a right fielder involved in?

 

The game is pitching. I agree I wouldn't have payed that much for a team with a budget like ours but it is very tempting to get a pitcher like that for a team that the budget seems to not be a limitation.

Edited November 15, 2006 by ptatc

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Nov 15, 2006 -> 02:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why would the Sox spend $25-30 million when they have 6 starters as it is?

 

 

 

The Red Sox are going to end up spending anywhere from $175-200 million this year, even if "only" $125-150 of it will be towards their payroll. How is that any different from the Yankees spending $200 million in payroll?

 

Well. First of all, because you asked me directly, I'll respond. The White Sox are rumored to be shopping 2-4 of there starting pitchers. You can never have enough pitching, which is why spending a dollar amount like that to acquire Matsuzaka would be a good move, both on the field and off the field for the White Sox.

 

Second of all, every time I hear someone say Masuzaka is costing $25M+ per year I wonder if I'm getting more stupid just by reading this thread. How will they be spending $175-200 million this year on the payroll? Do you count the White Sox changing there seats from blue to green at the Cell in this payroll? Or how about the White Sox signing Joe Borchard to a record setting deal.. does that count towards the payroll? Last time I checked green seats weren't 1 of the 25.

[Balta1701]

Just out of curiosity...anyone know if/how much the White Sox had to post for Iguchi?