The Problem with Illegal Immigration raids.

[sox4lifeinPA]

The law prevents employers (and consumers) from being notified if the social is being used in multiple places. I am trying to figure out who this benefits besides the identity thief. If the employee provided the legally required documents, and they weren't cut out of a cracker jack box, I have a hard time accessing a $65,000,000 fine. Or $65,000 for that matter.

 

There are a lot of issues here and no easy solutions, but one step is the IRS and Social Security to start monitoring these things and catching them before ten years has gone by. (article 2)

When Johnny comes marching home!

 

 

So Tex, I guess you're cool with one of these illegals using your SS# to get a meat packing job?

[Texsox]

So Tex, I guess you're cool with one of these illegals using your SS# to get a meat packing job?

 

No, but if a 45 year old 6'1" white guy that looks like me uses it to get a job, I won't blame the company that hired him.

[mr_genius]

I think, if we are serious about illegal immigration - these companies need to be fined hardcore.

 

definately.

 

The government will not warn businesses or consumers when the same social is being used multiple times, and we are going to fine Swift $65,000,000? How does that make sense? If a bank loaned the criminal money, should the bank be fines also? I'm for fining the company if they helped the people with this identity theft, but if they gathered the necessary documents, and those documents are proved to be stolen, I can't see how the company shouldbe punished. We're holding them to a higher standard than the IRS, Social Security, etc.

 

 

The company was knowingly enganging in illegal practices. at the very least the should face substantial fines. i don't buy this "well, i didn't know 40% of my employees were illegal" bs.

[Balta1701]

Des Moines Register.

 

A priest's and nun’s mission to find the mother of a nursing baby was thwarted today after they said officials from Camp Dodge would not let them inside to tell their story.

 

Sister Christine Feagan, from the St. Mary’s Hispanic Ministry, and The Rev. Jim Miller, who is a priest from the St. Mary’s Parish, both said they drove to Camp Dodge this afternoon to find out the status of a nursing mother who was deported and nursing a baby. They were also seeking a father with an ashmatic child.

...

The duo returned to Marshalltown this afternoon to deal with the scores of families trying arrange care for children whose parents have been detained.

 

At the church’s Hispanic ministry, the baby whose mother was arrested was passed among staff and a community activist who had agreed to help care for her.

 

They said they don’t know when the girl, whose father is absent, will be reunited with her mother.

 

The child, whose name was not provided by ministry staff, cried little, and stared at the different faces visiting the ministry. Women speaking a mixture of Spanish and English coordinated plans with how they would take care of children left behind.

 

Carmen Montealegre is one of the women who is taking care of two of her friends’ children with family displaced by the arrests. One of the children, a seven-year-old, asks frequently why her mother was detained, she said.

 

“She asked me three times, ‘Did she kill someone?’ I said, ‘She was working under another name.’”

 

The baby left behind has her own problems.

 

She has been difficult to feed since her mother was arrested, Feagan said.

 

“The mother was breastfeeding the baby,” Feagan said. “The baby doesn’t want to eat. Another tried to breastfeed, but she knew it wasn’t her.”

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

There needs to be provision made so that children born to illegal alien parents are not automatically granted citizenship. Once that is done then both parents and children need to be sent packing to wherever they came from.

 

 

Too bad the new bleeding heart Congress will hear nothing of it.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Another tried to breastfeed, but she knew it wasn’t her

 

I'd be worried if the baby did... that's the stupidest idea I've ever heard.

[Soxy]

I'd be worried if the baby did... that's the stupidest idea I've ever heard.

Someone hasn't seen The Hand That Rocks the Cradle.

[NorthSideSox72]

Too bad the new bleeding heart Congress will hear nothing of it.

Oh, you mean the bleeding heart Congress who have the balls to at least try to get rid of earmarks? That bleeding heart Congress?

 

They'll probably do more about the current joke of an immigration system than the 109th did with their unfunded, impractical and unwanted solutions.

 

I agreed with your post until you added the groundless slight.

[mr_genius]

Oh, you mean the bleeding heart Congress who have the balls to at least try to get rid of earmarks?

 

dude, you're being delusional. they don't want to get rid of earmarks. they just say that stuff and then sign legislation with tons of pork in it.

Edited December 14, 2006 by mr_genius

[sox4lifeinPA]

dude, you're being delusional. they don't want to get rid of earmarks. they just say that stuff and then sign legislation with tons of pork in it.

 

he said "try"

[Texsox]

definately.

 

 

 

 

The company was knowingly enganging in illegal practices. at the very least the should face substantial fines. i don't buy this "well, i didn't know 40% of my employees were illegal" bs.

 

The company was working with the government in a pilot program. The company has employees that provided social security cards. The company had no way of knowing those numbers were being used by others as well. The government knew the numbers were being used in multiple locations but will not tell the employer. The government will not tell them there is a problem. The one entity that knows immediately (IRS/Social Security) there is a problem with the numbers will not tell anyone. How can you then blame the employer? Now you think that they should be fined by the same government that wouldn't provide the information that would have allowed them to fire the person immediately?

 

Again I ask. What is your company doing to prevent this besides the same minimum requirements that Swift appeared to have followed? What did your company do to prove that that really is your social security card? The law requires providing a couple forms of ID. If someone forges these documents, and the documents are good forgeries, how can you blame the company for falling victim?

 

If someone hands you a forged $20 bill, should you be fined as well?

[Texsox]

Follow up article

 

 

 

Between Oct. 19 and Nov. 17, Swift voluntarily interviewed 450 suspected employees at several of its plants and found that between 90 to 95 percent were not who they said they were, according

 

to court documents. Four hundred were fired or quit and the company stopped that self-review at ICE's insistence, court documents said. Chertoff said Swift has cooperated with the government's Basic Pilot program that tracks Social Security numbers around the country. He explained that the program is limited because it can only match names with Social Security numbers.

 

The program does not spot multiple uses of the same Social Security number.

 

"If we could get permission from Congress to have the Social Security Administration identify multiple appearances of the same identification, it would help us do our job," Chertoff said.

 

Linked

 

So Swift is busy cleaning house, the government (ICE program) tells them to stop, then a month later conducts a raid? The laws and the government agencies are really f***ed up in all this.

[NorthSideSox72]

he said "try"

Thank you. I even put the word in italics, but I guess that wasn't clear enough. I'm waiting like everyone else to see if it actually happens. I just found the slight sort of amusing, since talking about at least a temporary freeze is one more step than the "brave heart" (opposite of bleeding heart?) GOP Congress was willing to do.

[YASNY]

Thank you. I even put the word in italics, but I guess that wasn't clear enough. I'm waiting like everyone else to see if it actually happens. I just found the slight sort of amusing, since talking about at least a temporary freeze is one more step than the "brave heart" (opposite of bleeding heart?) GOP Congress was willing to do.

 

It ain't going to happen. And this is not a stab at the Dems. Neither party is willing to give this 'earmark' stuff up. What the Dems may do, is to convince everyone they are trying, but blame the GOP when they can't pull it off. And if the situation was flip flopped, it would be the same thing.

[NorthSideSox72]

It ain't going to happen. And this is not a stab at the Dems. Neither party is willing to give this 'earmark' stuff up. What the Dems may do, is to convince everyone they are trying, but blame the GOP when they can't pull it off. And if the situation was flip flopped, it would be the same thing.

You are probably right. But I am willing to wait and see before judging on this matter.

[southsider2k5]

Interesting follow question that goes to the "illegals do the jobs that no one wants" arguement. One of the plants which was raided is taking applications, and had applicants lined up "out the door".

 

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/loca...5215724,00.html

 

GREELEY - The line of applicants hoping to fill jobs vacated by undocumented workers taken away by immigration agents at the Swift & Co. meat-processing plant earlier this week was out the door Thursday.

 

Among them was Derrick Stegall, who carefully filled out paperwork he hoped would get him an interview and eventually land him a job as a slaughterer. Two of his friends had been taken away by Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents and he felt compelled to fill their rubber boots.

 

"Luckily, they had no wives or family they left behind. But it was still sad. They left their apartments filled with all their stuff. I took two dogs one of them had. The other guy had a cat I gave to my sister," he said.

 

Greg Bonifacio heard about the job openings on television and brought his passport, his Colorado driver's license, his Social Security card and even a color photograph of himself as a young Naval officer to prove his military service.

 

"I don't want to hassle with any identification problems because of my last name," said Bonifacio, a 59- year-old Thornton resident of Filipino heritage.

 

As it turned out, the Colorado Workforce office that was taking applications did not require any identification.

 

That would come later for those who made it past the interview process.

 

Bonifacio was hoping to get a job in production or fabrication. So was Nathan Korgan, a former construction worker whose company closed and moved to California.

 

"I feel bad for the kids, but good for me," said Korgan of Tuesday's raid.

 

Like many others who had mixed emotions about the raid, Maxine Hernandez said she was upset that families were torn apart, but believes illegal immigrants should not get work using fake documents.

 

"I guess I'm in the middle," she said. "But I do think they should have planned (the raid) better so that innocent children wouldn't be left behind."

 

Hernandez, who had gone to the employment office because her husband was there to apply for unemployment insurance, decided to apply for a job at Swift on a whim.

 

"My whole family used to work there. My mom, my aunt, uncles," she said. "I guess it sort of runs in our blood."

[Controlled Chaos]

Interesting follow question that goes to the "illegals do the jobs that no one wants" arguement. One of the plants which was raided is taking applications, and had applicants lined up "out the door".

 

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/loca...5215724,00.html

 

Related story

 

Unions: Fewer Hispanic immigrants hired since raids

Associated Press

Posted Wednesday, December 20, 2006

 

OMAHA, Neb. — Fewer Hispanic immigrants are being hired to replace meatpacking workers arrested at Swift & Co. plants in Grand Island, Neb., and Greeley, Colo., during last week’s immigration raid, union officials said Tuesday.

 

Local 22 union president Dan Hoppes said Tuesday that 40 to 50 new workers have been hired at the Grand Island plant since the raids.

 

“The lion’s share of those people were Caucasian,” Hoppes said.

 

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials arrested nearly 1,300 people, most Hispanic, at six Swift & Co. plants in the sweep. Some experts say the raids could lead to a shortage of meatpackers, higher wages, and higher prices for the beef in homes and restaurants.

 

Several union officials said Swift, which has denied knowingly hiring illegal workers and has not been charged, improved its wages, benefits and bonuses before the raids.

 

“They’re trying to staff up their plants and they’ve been raising their wages the past few weeks,” said United Food and Commercial Workers spokeswoman Jill Cashen. “To me, it’s an example that when you make the job more attractive you get a different kind of applicant.”

 

Raids were also conducted at Swift plants in Hyrum, Utah; Marshalltown, Iowa; and Worthington, Minn. Cashen did not provide phone numbers for union officials in Iowa and Minnesota. The union in Utah said it did not cover the Swift workers.

 

A message left at Swift & Co. seeking comment was not immediately returned.

 

In Greeley, where Swift is headquartered, union local president Ernie Duran said about 75 new workers have been hired — including about 30 Caucasians, 15 Somali immigrants and seven Hispanic immigrants, with the rest U.S.-born Hispanics. But the raid has not dissuaded Hispanic immigrants from seeking work at the plant, he said.

 

Before the raids, roughly 90 percent of the Greeley plant workers were Hispanic, Duran said. It was unclear, of that 90 percent, how many were immigrants and how many were U.S.-born, as the union officials said they did not keep track of members’ immigration status.

[NorthSideSox72]

Interesting follow question that goes to the "illegals do the jobs that no one wants" arguement. One of the plants which was raided is taking applications, and had applicants lined up "out the door".

 

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/loca...5215724,00.html

Reading that article, it seems in this case that this was more about rescuing the community and the company than the fact that immigrants were somehow blocking others from jobs.

 

And before anyone starts in, I'm a proponent sending all illegal immigrants packing, and severe penalties on companies who hire them. The above is just an observation, and I'm just saying that this article does not indicate that immigrants are not doing the less wanted jobs. They often are.

[YASNY]

Reading that article, it seems in this case that this was more about rescuing the community and the company than the fact that immigrants were somehow blocking others from jobs.

 

And before anyone starts in, I'm a proponent sending all illegal immigrants packing, and severe penalties on companies who hire them. The above is just an observation, and I'm just saying that this article does not indicate that immigrants are not doing the less wanted jobs. They often are.

 

It also didn't mention the fact that a lot of these illegals had stolen the identities of many US citizens.

[NorthSideSox72]

It also didn't mention the fact that a lot of these illegals had stolen the identities of many US citizens.

Yet another reason why I was glad to see the stiff justice being applied, even though the community had to suffer for it. It was the right tactic, and the right message, I think. In the future, companies and communities will be less likely to turn a blind eye on illegal activities.

[southsider2k5]

Reading that article, it seems in this case that this was more about rescuing the community and the company than the fact that immigrants were somehow blocking others from jobs.

 

So people with better jobs were heading down to the meatpacking plant to try to get worse jobs just to save the plant? I really have a hard time buying that, especially since the article mentions the company raising wages in the same article. If they were attracting enough attention based on either saving the plant, why would they need to pay people more money to do so? That is kinda contradictary IMO.

[NorthSideSox72]

So people with better jobs were heading down to the meatpacking plant to try to get worse jobs just to save the plant? I really have a hard time buying that, especially since the article mentions the company raising wages in the same article. If they were attracting enough attention based on either saving the plant, why would they need to pay people more money to do so? That is kinda contradictary IMO.

No, people in a community like Greeley, a college town with a lot of low paying jobs if you aren't in academia, will often bop around from job to job. Or be out of work. Or work some jobs seasonally. Therefore, if full time regular work opens up at this plant, and these semi-transient workers see a way to get that job and help out the town to keep the plant running, they will go for it. Heck, the article even says that - the guy whose friends were sent away. Add that the wages going up, and there you have your increased demand.

 

Regardless, like I said, I am all for what they did here in getting them out. There is zero reason ever for it to be OK for illegal immigrants to be here. The laws need to be enforced more strictly and more often, and the laws need to be re-written to guage immigration policy with economic needs.

[Balta1701]

It also didn't mention the fact that a lot of these illegals had stolen the identities of many US citizens.

At least based on the charges coming down from the government, I don't think "a lot" is the correct term. Over 1200 were swept up, and only about 50 or so have been charged with anything other than immigration violations. The report from the feds originally said that around 60 had actually done so.

 

Not a zero number, but certainly not a gigantic ID theft ring.

[southsider2k5]

At least based on the charges coming down from the government, I don't think "a lot" is the correct term. Over 1200 were swept up, and only about 50 or so have been charged with anything other than immigration violations. The report from the feds originally said that around 60 had actually done so.

 

Not a zero number, but certainly not a gigantic ID theft ring.

 

50 people out of 1200 isn't a ID theft ring? Its not like we are talking about one or two people here. That is a pretty significant number, especially if those numbers are replicated in other places around the country. Each of those stolen IDs is potentially someone else's life who is being ruined.

 

For me this incident is finally starting to blow the lid off of some of the stereotypes associated with illegal immigration, such as... no American's want these jobs, and they aren't bothering anyone etc.

[Rex Kickass]

Southsider,

 

Nowhere in that article did it say that Swift was hiring at the same wage. My wager is that Swift just upped their pay a few bucks an hour so that they'd attract legal workers.