Williams: Sox not cutting payroll

[CanOfCorn]

He would have been an upgrade over Uribe and Uribe could have been traded away for something.

 

We have no idea if he would have come here. And it doesn't make any difference if he comes here to leadoff or not. He's a huge upgrade over Pods. And how do we know if he even cares if he is the leadoff hitter or the #2 or #5?

 

Not every acquisition solves every problem. Again, he would have been a big upgrade over Pods. He or most players on the team would be better leading off than Pods.

 

I don't know what this means. Do we want to spend as much as the Red Sox, Yankees or Mets? They spend what they can afford. If the Chisox could afford that much, they should spend that much. Unfortunately Chisox revenues don't allow for that kind of payroll. But as a fan, I certainly want the Chisox to spend as much as they can afford. And the Chisox can easily afford at least a small increase over last year's payroll. I would definitely like for them to spend that much money to improve the team. There have been opportunities to do that this season. Hopefully KW can figure out something in the remainder of the offseason to make it happen.

 

What I mean is...the 2005 White Sox were a TEAM. They had no superstars, they had no ridiculous salaries and they won the World Series. If you want to put together an All-Star team every year and load up on players that either play or bat out of place, you might get winning teams every year, but you aren't going to get World Series champs.

 

Hell, look at the late 90's Yankees. Sure they had star power, but they still had the O'Neil's and the Brosius' that know their role and play it well. Pods may not have had a great season last year. But, so what? He knows his role on this team and does his best to keep in step. I would MUCH rather pay him $3 mil for ONE YEAR than Pierre or Roberts for 3+ years.

[Vance Law]

thanks, ss2k5

[fathom]

Hell, look at the late 90's Yankees. Sure they had star power, but they still had the O'Neil's and the Brosius' that know their role and play it well. Pods may not have had a great season last year. But, so what? He knows his role on this team and does his best to keep in step. I would MUCH rather pay him $3 mil for ONE YEAR than Pierre or Roberts for 3+ years.

 

That's the problem...Pods doesn't know his role. He doesn't hustle at all on the field, and he goes through stretches for weeks at a time where he doesn't steal a base. I was really hoping to see some creativity by the Sox this offseason, especially in trying to find a righty 4th outfielder who can mash LHP. Then, we could have just gone with a platoon in LF with Mackowiak and that player, and the production offensively and defensively would have been so much more.

Edited December 14, 2006 by fathom

[southsider2k5]

thanks, ss2k5

 

 

No problem

[NorthSideSox72]

I think Rozner is the best sports columnist in Chicago.

He's very good, but my vote goes to Melissa Isaacson.

[bmags]

in that case, can any herald employees get me an internship at the herald? I'm a hard-working j-student at the uni of missouri, and i sure do love the herald! I'm great at getting coffee and have a useful car. Go sox!

 

-most ambitious j-student ever

and a sox fan.

bmags.

[DrunkBomber]

I agree with not wanting to overpay for mediocre talent. I guess its just frustrating that there isnt really anything out there that we can get to help us where we need it most.

[SoxHawk1980]

What I mean is...the 2005 White Sox were a TEAM. They had no superstars, they had no ridiculous salaries and they won the World Series. If you want to put together an All-Star team every year and load up on players that either play or bat out of place, you might get winning teams every year, but you aren't going to get World Series champs.

So that is what you meant when you said that you don't want the Sox to be like the Red Sox, Yankees or Mets. But the problem is that this strategy has led to World Series victories for the Red Sox once and the Yankees multiple times. Those teams won a lot of games and won the World Series because they had a hell of a lot of talent. If your strategy is trying to find magical chemistry with a bunch of cheaper players, you are lucky to get lightning in a bottle once.

Hell, look at the late 90's Yankees. Sure they had star power, but they still had the O'Neil's and the Brosius' that know their role and play it well. Pods may not have had a great season last year. But, so what? He knows his role on this team and does his best to keep in step. I would MUCH rather pay him $3 mil for ONE YEAR than Pierre or Roberts for 3+ years.

The fact that Pods knows his role and does his best to keep step doesn't help the team any. You say that he didn't have a great season "but so what?" So what? So, he hurt the team. He was an automatic out in the lineup and a liability in the field. I think that rates higher than a "so what?" I never claimed overspending on Pierre or Roberts would have been a good idea. But spending the market price on Guillen or Abreu would have been worth it and would have been affordable, if we are to believe what Kenny says in this article. And they both would have been major improvements over Pods.

Edited December 14, 2006 by SoxHawk1980

[CanOfCorn]

So that is what you meant when you said that you don't want the Sox to be like the Red Sox, Yankees or Mets. But the problem is that this strategy has led to World Series victories for the Red Sox once and the Yankees multiple times. Those teams won a lot of games and won the World Series because they had a hell of a lot of talent. If your strategy is trying to find magical chemistry with a bunch of cheaper players, you are lucky to get lightning in a bottle once.

 

The fact that Pods knows his role and does his best to keep step doesn't help the team any. You say that he didn't have a great season "but so what?" So what? So, he hurt the team. He was an automatic out in the lineup and a liability in the field. I think that rates higher than a "so what?" I never claimed overspending on Pierre or Roberts would have been a good idea. But spending the market price on Guillen or Abreu would have been worth it and would have been affordable, if we are to believe what Kenny says in this article. And they both would have been major improvements over Pods.

 

Magical chemistry. Wow. I don't call chemistry "magical." It's called being a team. The White Sox have talent. Show me a team that has absolutely NO weaknesses. Go ahead. I would say, all things being equal, Uribe is the weak link because he had a down year defensively and was just as inconsistent as ever at the plate. Where's the outcry to get his $4+ Million salary out of town? Sorry, but I trust the White Sox to do the best they can in their own framework. And you have to give them credit for standing tall in the face of fans who want them to sign the big-time free agent and/or trade for the big name EVERY year.

[Balance]

Why all the dismay about the Sox not spending wildly in this market? Spending for the sake of spending does not a championship team make. Is there a player currently out there in the FA market (or, for the sake of this discussion, who was signed in this FA period) who would be worth signing for the money we'd have to spend?

 

I'm seeing a lot of complaining about the alleged reduction in payroll, but not many concrete suggestions about who the White Sox should pursue - and pay market price - in this FA market.

[CWSGuy406]

Uribe is the weak link because he had a down year defensively

 

No he didn't.

[redandwhite]

The people who believe the White Sox were cutting payroll were simply basing that off of the starting pitchers being available, and no one being signed on the open market that would improve the team enough to make a considerably high financial move.

 

It is interesting that Williams would say that he could add a significant contract to the roster if he saw something he liked though because all rumored trades (Garland for Taveras, Bucholz) and the Garcia trade were for cheap, young players and weren't very good deals in my opinion either.

 

At this point in time, do I realistically see the White Sox winning the World Series? Well, I'd never say never, but with major holes in center field, left field, and short stop among others, at this point I feel as if it's unlikely.

 

What players at a position of need are available? Who could the White Sox go out and grab? I'm not entirely sure, nonetheless, with another starting pitcher possibly being shopped, that player should be found and not traded for Taveras/Bucholz types who won't contribute in 2007.

[fathom]

At this point in time, do I realistically see the White Sox winning the World Series? Well, I'd never say never, but with major holes in center field, left field, and short stop among others, at this point I feel as if it's unlikely.

 

Cool, thanks.

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2006 -> 04:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cool, thanks.

Good Post, post padder.

[fathom]

Good Post, post padder.

 

Well, I only respect posts from people that don't know two s***s about baseball, like Santo, Rock, etc. Seriously, does every post you ever make have to insult someone? What's worse though, 25k posts on the message board for the team you love, or 4k posts on a message board for a team you don't root for?

Edited December 14, 2006 by fathom

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2006 -> 04:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I only respect posts from people that don't know two s***s about baseball, like Santo, Rock, etc. Seriously, does every post you ever make have to insult someone? What's worse though, 25k posts on the message board for the team you love, or 4k posts on a message board for a team you don't root for?

I've made over 4,000 posts without insults in them. Are you seriously going to argue with me for the sake of arguing?

[CWSGuy406]

At this point in time, do I realistically see the White Sox winning the World Series? Well, I'd never say never, but with major holes in center field, left field, and short stop among others, at this point I feel as if it's unlikely.

 

Major holes? Heh.

 

The best defensive SS in the AL who, despite the absurdly low OBP, still slugged .441, and is still right in the middle of his prime years, is a "major hole"? Should the Sox perhaps swing a deal for the incredible Alex Cora? Would that plug the hole?

 

An above-average-to-great defensive centerfielder who has a solid minor league track record is a "major hole"? Oh, right, he struggled in 365 ABs, so that means his career is over.

 

I'll concede LF, but the winter ain't over yet.

[redandwhite]

The White Sox scored a hell of a lot of runs last year, but in my opinion you have too many all or nothing players complimenting Dye, Thome, and Konerko.

 

I'm not recommending Alex Cora, as I mentioned in the other thread, he's most desirable in the bench role and isn't good enough to be a starter. I am however recommending that in left, in center, and at short you get players to compliment the three aforementioned players instead of these all or nothing players, and in Brian Anderson and Scott Podsednik's case just nothing.

 

I probably shouldn't have said major holes, but I'd certainly look into upgrading those three positions.

Edited December 14, 2006 by redandwhite

[RockRaines]

So that is what you meant when you said that you don't want the Sox to be like the Red Sox, Yankees or Mets. But the problem is that this strategy has led to World Series victories for the Red Sox once and the Yankees multiple times. Those teams won a lot of games and won the World Series because they had a hell of a lot of talent. If your strategy is trying to find magical chemistry with a bunch of cheaper players, you are lucky to get lightning in a bottle once.

Well, the last realy yankees Dynasty was won by alot of homegrown talent, not quite with the "buy every player" mentality that has contributed to their shortcomings in the past few years. Cashman's main additions were: third baseman Scott Brosius, second baseman and leadoff man Chuck Knoblauch, outfielder Darryl Strawberry and starting pitcher "El Duque" Hernandez. In fact if you would like to do a comparison of payrolls during that last Yankees dynasty, it looks like this:

1998

1) Orioles - 71 million

2) Yankees - 64 million

3) Braves - 60 million

4) Indians - 60 million

5) Rangers - 55 million

6) Cardinals - 53 million

7) Mariners - 53 million

8) Red Sox - 52 million

9) Mets - 50 million

10) Cubs - 50 million

 

1999

1) Yankees - 89 million

2) Rangers - 82 million

3) Braves - 76 million

4) Indians - 74 million

5) Red Sox - 72 million

6) Mets - 72 million

7) Dodgers - 71 million

8) Orioles - 71 million

9) Diamondbacks - 71 million

10) Cubs - 56 million

 

2000

1) Yankees - 93 million

2) Dodgers - 91 million

3) Orioles - 84 million

4) Braves - 83 Million

5) Red Sox - 82 million

6) Mets - 80 million

7) Diamondbacks - 80 million

8) Indians - 77 million

9) Rangers - 71 million

10) Devil Rays - 65 million

 

2001

1) Yankees - 113 million

2) Red Sox - 110 million

3) Dodgers - 110 million

4) Mets - 94 million

5) Indians - 93 million

6) Braves - 92 million

7) Rangers - 89 million

8) Diamondbacks - 86 million

9) Cardinals - 79 million

10) Blue Jays - 77 million

 

On thing alot of people forget is how scrappy and team oriented those Yankees teams were. It wasnt until alot of those guys retired that the Yankees starting buying superstarts by the bundle.

 

The Red Sox 2004 team won with alot of role players and homegrown guys as well, their payroll in 2004 was 128 million, with Manny, Pedro, Nomar, Damon, Varitek, Nixon, Wakefield and a few others all receiving raises. They added Schilling at 12 million, Foulke at 7 million, and Ortiz (non-tendered) at 5 million. That was basically the "team" they bought in 2004.

[CWSGuy406]

I'm not recommending Alex Cora, as I mentioned in the other thread, he's most desirable in the bench role and isn't good enough to be a starter. I am however recommending that in left, in center, and at short you get players to compliment the three aforementioned players instead of these all or nothing players, and in Brian Anderson's case just nothing.

 

But they're not all-or-nothing players. While they may have streaks of 'bad' at the plate, they're saving their pitchers runs in the field by getting to most every ball that's hit anywhere near either of them. How does Anderson not compliment Dye nicely? Dye puts up ridiculous offensive numbers, but his range in RF isn't too stellar at this point. Ditto Tad Iguchi, has nice hands and can turn the DP really well, but has pretty poor range himself.

 

And again, you're still discounting the fact that Anderson has put up good minor league numbers and can hit, despite his 2005 season. I'm not saying he's going to battle for a batting title, but he's capable of .250/.315/.420 next year which, considering his defense, would be perfectly acceptable.

[redandwhite]

Look at those Orioles. Remember when there wasn't a seat available for just about every game at Camden? Christ, what happened to that franchise?

[Hangar18]

I've made over 4,000 posts without insults in them. Are you seriously going to argue with me for the sake of arguing?

 

 

Hey man, I dont have a problem with your post, it was pretty right-on

[RockRaines]

Look at those Orioles. Remember when there wasn't a seat available for just about every game at Camden? Christ, what happened to that franchise?

The funny thing is that the best Yankees team of that dynasty was actually OUTSPENT by the O's.

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 14, 2006 -> 04:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And again, you're still discounting the fact that Anderson has put up good minor league numbers and can hit, despite his 2005 season. I'm not saying he's going to battle for a batting title, but he's capable of .250/.315/.420 next year which, considering his defense, would be perfectly acceptable.

If he can repeat his stellar defense, that's completely acceptable. Still, I'd rather a guy that could get on base at two of the three positions I mentioned considering outside of Konerko, Thome, Dye, and Iguchi, nobody else does. Wouldn't you agree?

[fathom]

If he can repeat his stellar defense, that's completely acceptable. Still, I'd rather a guy that could get on base at two of the three positions I mentioned considering outside of Konerko, Thome, Dye, and Iguchi, nobody else does. Wouldn't you agree?

 

Ozzie and KW don't really care about OBP. They never have, never will. Ozzie would rather have his speed guy at the top of the order. The biggest reason this offense tanked in the 2nd half was due to the poor performances by many of our hitters against LHP, especially Thome and Iguchi. Adding a player or two that can mash LHP would really help, as there are amazing lefty pitchers in our division.