What would the Mets give for Javy?

[beck72]

With the Astros basically setting the "new" bar for trading SP's with the Jennings for Hirsh + deal, you have to think the Mets can and will offer a very good price if they want Vazquez. Seeing how bad their rotation is for a team with very realistic world series aspirations, the Mets should be looking to acquire a healthy innings eater like Javy.

 

My question is, what is a realistic price in terms of talent? Who would or should the sox be asking for in a deal? And would it be enough for the sox to give up a guy who can throw 200 innings in his sleep, with room for improvement?

 

IMO, Pelfrey would have to be included. He isn't the health risk that Humber is, and is ready to step into the 07 rotation. Heilman likely wouldn't be included as the Mets need him in their pen [and his crying about being a starter wouldn't fly with Ozzie]. If Pelfrey had a poor spring, Floyd or Haeger could be ready in his place.

 

Also, I'd like the sox to get a top low level SP prospect. Deolis Guerra will turn 18 in april and will start in high A, probably ending the yr in AA. The young Venezuelan could replace the one the sox got rid of.

 

Other peices would have to be included, as those two by themselves wouldn't be enough. Esp. as the sox don't need to move Javy. Only a deal that blows the sox out of the water--far better than the one the Astros got for Jennings.

 

Thoughts?

[Balta1701]

If the White Sox are dealing away another starting pitcher, then they need a guy who is ready to step into the rotation right now. That means Pelfrey. And the Mets really don't want to give him up.

 

And I would still love to get my hands on Lastings Milledge as a potential replacement for Podsednik, especially since he has no place on that Mets roster and the Mets veterans weren't to thrilled with his act last year (but which I think would work well alongside Ozzie, AJ, and our other guys)

[beck72]

If the White Sox are dealing away another starting pitcher, then they need a guy who is ready to step into the rotation right now. That means Pelfrey. And the Mets really don't want to give him up.

 

And I would still love to get my hands on Lastings Milledge as a potential replacement for Podsednik, especially since he has no place on that Mets roster and the Mets veterans weren't to thrilled with his act last year (but which I think would work well alongside Ozzie, AJ, and our other guys)

From looking at various mets boards, they seem inclined to think Pelfrey isn't the untouchable he once was. They seem to think one of the other pitchers like Maine, Humber, Perez etc would be able to step up as well.

[fathom]

I'd love for the Sox to get Lastings. He has that super high ceiling which is a little different from our typical draft picks.

[iamshack]

From looking at various mets boards, they seem inclined to think Pelfrey isn't the untouchable he once was. They seem to think one of the other pitchers like Maine, Humber, Perez etc would be able to step up as well.

 

I think from everything that has transpired, one would have to think Omar is balking at the idea of giving up Milledge, Pelfrey, or Humber. He's an aggressive GM, and I believe were he able to make a deal he was comfortable with including those guys, he would have by now. That leads me to believe he would rather go with what he has, at least until he finds out if he can get Zito at a discount.

 

Were Zito to be an idiot and go to Texas, then that might force Omar's hand and compel him to give up one or two of Pelfrey/Humber/Milledge.

[Balta1701]

I'd love for the Sox to get Lastings. He has that super high ceiling which is a little different from our typical draft picks.

I've been wanting him all offseason. He fits in perfectly into that OF slot with the potential to steal a lot of bases, and he clearely has worn out his welcome in NY to the point that they brought in Alou so that they wouldn't have to count on him (and most of that was not based on performance).

[ptatc]

If they sign Zito it won't matter. Let's hope someone else beats them.

[Balta1701]

If they sign Zito it won't matter. Let's hope someone else beats them.

Even if they sign Zito, their rotation still looks very weak on paper. Zito, Glavine, El Duque, then you've got Oliver Perez, John Maine, and Pelfrey/Humber for the last 2 spots, with maybe a Pedro sighting someday. That might be good enough to get to the playoffs in the NL, but it still looks like it could use a righty who can give you 200 innings.

[DBAHO]

Humber and Milledge.

 

As much as I would like for the Mets to give up Pelfrey, I don't think they're going to do it.

 

So take the next best prospects they have. I like the sound of Guerra as well.

 

If the Sox acquired Milledge, they could either trade Pods for a backup catcher, or trade Brian Anderson to a team like the Marlins for some of their young pitching.

 

EDIT: But I don't want to trade Javy, unless Minaya overpays. I'd rather trade Garland who you'd probably get more in return for than Vazquez I'd imagine.

[ptatc]

Even if they sign Zito, their rotation still looks very weak on paper. Zito, Glavine, El Duque, then you've got Oliver Perez, John Maine, and Pelfrey/Humber for the last 2 spots, with maybe a Pedro sighting someday. That might be good enough to get to the playoffs in the NL, but it still looks like it could use a righty who can give you 200 innings.

 

I agree it looks weak. I just think after spending the money on Zito that they would make another "blockbuster" move. I would think it would be a smaller scale move.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

What would they give for Javy ?

 

Apparently, not enough. Or they would have had him.

 

I've heard that the dealbreaker was Pelfrey. They don't want to give him up.

 

The Sox could probably get Heilman and Milledge. But, I don't think the Sox are high on Milledge. Heilman would be useful in the pen but he wants to start and he is probably only a back end starter.

 

If they miss out on Zito, I would expect them to talk again.

[3E8]

If they lost out on Zito, I'd start the bidding with Mike Pelfrey, Lastings Milledge, and Jon Niese. I wouldn't settle for much less than that. It's a one-sided deal, but at this point I'm not making a deal for equal value or even slightly in our favor. The Mets are a postseason team, and we would be enabling them to round out a postseason rotation. For that, you gotta pay an uneven amount. This is just if I'm the GM and what would be enough for me. Kenny isn't known to be this way though.

[fathom]

The Mets aren't going to give up Pelfrey. The sooner people realize that, the sooner these proposed trades will be a little more realistic.

[Chisoxfn]

Humber and Milledge.

 

As much as I would like for the Mets to give up Pelfrey, I don't think they're going to do it.

 

So take the next best prospects they have. I like the sound of Guerra as well.

 

If the Sox acquired Milledge, they could either trade Pods for a backup catcher, or trade Brian Anderson to a team like the Marlins for some of their young pitching.

 

EDIT: But I don't want to trade Javy, unless Minaya overpays. I'd rather trade Garland who you'd probably get more in return for than Vazquez I'd imagine.

You don't trade for injury prone top prospects. Unless your getting them for a value. We would be getting robbed blindly in that trade. You either get Pelfrey in any package or you don't make a trade at all. He is a must have if you deal with the Mets.

 

Otherwise keep Javy since we have him for 2 more years.

[fathom]

Then no trade.

 

I agree with you, I dont think Pelfrey gets moved, but 3E8 is dead on. We traded one starter. We all knew that was going to happen. Now the Sox could get away with trading another starter if it was a Pelfry/Milledge type package, but thats about it, and Kenny has come out and said that. I'm not going to go dig for the quote, but it was something along the lines of "The only way we trade another starter is if we get two major league pieces back in return" The Sox don't need to trade another starter. They needed to trade one of Garland/Vaz/Garcia, and did that.

 

I've changed my stance, and I want the Sox to trade Buehrle. We could get Lastings and another pitching prospect from the Mets for Mark. There's not a chance in hell we re-sign him after next year, so lets get a marquee outfield prospect for him who has the chance to be a very versatile offensive player I still can't believe thought that KW traded Garcia away without getting someone who he's sure can help us in 2007.

[Balta1701]

I've changed my stance, and I want the Sox to trade Buehrle. We could get Lastings and another pitching prospect from the Mets for Mark. There's not a chance in hell we re-sign him after next year, so lets get a marquee outfield prospect for him who has the chance to be a very versatile offensive player I still can't believe thought that KW traded Garcia away without getting someone who he's sure can help us in 2007.

If Buehrle is moved, it sure as all hell better be Pelfrey coming back from the Mets along with Milledge. But there's no way the Mets make that deal if they sign Zito, since they'll already have 2 darn good lefties in their rotation. So in other words, cheer on Texas.

Edited December 15, 2006 by Balta1701

[fathom]

It's just too bad KW isn't comfortable when he's the one trading veteran players for prospects.

[Chisoxfn]

I've changed my stance, and I want the Sox to trade Buehrle. We could get Lastings and another pitching prospect from the Mets for Mark. There's not a chance in hell we re-sign him after next year, so lets get a marquee outfield prospect for him who has the chance to be a very versatile offensive player I still can't believe thought that KW traded Garcia away without getting someone who he's sure can help us in 2007.

If we move Buehrle and get Humber instead of Pelfrey, get a lower level guy that you think has some upside and Milledge than you got yourself a deal. I don't mind it since Mark will be long gone anyway.

[fathom]

If we move Buehrle and get Humber instead of Pelfrey, get a lower level guy that you think has some upside and Milledge than you got yourself a deal. I don't mind it since Mark will be long gone anyway.

 

KW's philosophy has always been that if you're going into your FA year, and you're not going to sign an extension, he'll look to move you. That's the main reason I was stunned that Garland was the one we were shopping, and not Buehrle. No one appreciates Buehrle more than I do, but it's quite clear he's not coming back here in any way, shape, or form after 2007 unless it's in Interleague play. I was told by someone in the Cards organization that one of the reasons they didn't go all out after Schmidt and Suppan is because they're saving up money for Buehrle after this upcoming season.

[Balta1701]

If we move Buehrle and get Humber instead of Pelfrey, get a lower level guy that you think has some upside and Milledge than you got yourself a deal. I don't mind it since Mark will be long gone anyway.

It better be more than a guy with just "Some upside" to go for Humber instead of Pelfrey, it better be a pretty big upside. Especially with what Jennings just pulled in from the Astros.

[Chisoxfn]

It better be more than a guy with just "Some upside" to go for Humber instead of Pelfrey, it better be a pretty big upside. Especially with what Jennings just pulled in from the Astros.

When I say upside, I mean exactly that...upside and I still don't know if I make that deal without Pelfrey.

[Flash Tizzle]

When I say upside, I mean exactly that...upside and I still don't know if I make that deal without Pelfrey.

You can't. Next starter traded damn well better land us more than a Cooper project. Especially in the wake of the package Colorado received from Houston.

 

Either Vazquez is packaged to the Mets for Pelfrey, or another team for one/two of their top pitching prospects, or he isn't traded. If Vazquez (or any other starter) is delt for a poor package which, similar to Garcia, appears to be a salary dump, I'll lose a tremendous amount of respect for Williams.

 

If New York isn't willing to trade Pelfrey, fine; enter next season with a patchwork rotation. From all accounts I've read, they're neither the favorites for Zito (Texas) or Mulder (Arizona). It certaintly may change, but if Minaya is forced into a corner with the lack of available pitchers, I don't see many options for him.

[beck72]

KW is pretty good friends with Omar, right. I'm inclined to believe that Omar knows Kw's asking price [which is better than what the Astros would have given for Javy, which was reported as the same as Garland] and could probably meet it.

 

Any deal would have to include Pelfrey for the sox. If the mets would move Pelfrey soon, I'd expect them to put some whispers out in the media that he wasn't all that he was made out to be. Or at the least that he was replaceable with what they already have.

[Balta1701]

KW is pretty good friends with Omar, right. I'm inclined to believe that Omar knows Kw's asking price [which is better than what the Astros would have given for Javy, which was reported as the same as Garland] and could probably meet it.

 

Any deal would have to include Pelfrey for the sox. If the mets would move Pelfrey soon, I'd expect them to put some whispers out in the media that he wasn't all that he was made out to be. Or at the least that he was replaceable with what they already have.

A few days ago.

As far as starting pitchers, the Chicago White Sox dealt Freddy Garcia, and Jason Schmidt is off the market, as are Gil Meche and Ted Lilly.

 

Losing out on Garcia was disappointing.

 

"He's one of the guys we talked about for a while," Minaya said before leaving for the airport. "We just couldn't agree on the prospects."

 

The Mets remain in touch with agent Scott Boras about Barry Zito and are talking with Oakland about the availability of Rich Harden, Joe Blanton and Dan Haren.

 

Nothing could be categorized as close in either area, but things aren't dead, either.

 

Minaya stated at the beginning of the week that trading for a starter might be easier considering the economic parameters set by Boras on Zito, but he amended that yesterday, saying, "I wouldn't say now (making a trade) is a more likely way to go, but it is one of the ways."

 

The asking price in the trade market has been exorbitant.

 

It has been reported that Lastings Milledge, Aaron Heilman and Phil Humber would get it done for Harden. The Mets also inquired into Haren and Blanton, but aren't close on either of them.

 

"We are talking with other teams as well," Oakland general manager Billy Beane said.

 

"But there's nothing imminent with anybody."

 

It's not that the Mets refuse to deal a particular prospect, but are wary of the quantity sought.

 

"Nobody is untouchable with me," Minaya said when asked about giving up his highly touted prospects, notably Humber and Mike Pelfrey.

[DBAHO]

You don't trade for injury prone top prospects. Unless your getting them for a value. We would be getting robbed blindly in that trade. You either get Pelfrey in any package or you don't make a trade at all. He is a must have if you deal with the Mets.

 

Otherwise keep Javy since we have him for 2 more years.

Well if you added Heilman (as has been proposed in the Haren deal), to make it Heilman, Humber and Milledge, that certainly looks better from our end.

 

I rate Humber pretty highly, but he does have arm issues like you've stated. Still I think he could certainly be a #2 starter at the major league level if he was healthy.

 

But I'm still looking at Texas with Eric Hurley and John Danks first, before I talk to the Mets. So that's why I'm hoping Zito doesn't sign with either team.