RockRaines Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 QUOTE(Frank the Tank 35 @ Dec 19, 2006 -> 12:00 PM) Scout.com http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=315&p=2&c=601667 Penny has the right to demand a trade a year after he's traded to another team. If he remained healthy, he'd probably try to rework his contract. The proposed deal shows that Rios doesnt have as much trade value as many people think. QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 18, 2006 -> 07:27 PM) That's completely irrelevant. You're overlooking so many other factors in what makes up a player's trade value. If you could have either player, Wells for 1 year guaranteed, or Rios for 4 years guaranteed. are you telling me you would take Wells? And further, if you could have Rios for 4 years for an absolute bargain, or Wells, and pay him close to 60 million, you'd still take Wells? You are looking too much at other factors, Rios doesnt even come close to the player that Wells is, not even close. I would take Wells in both of those scenarios. GG defense, huge offensive power, yes yes yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 I was actually told a few days ago that scout.com is a horrific site for baseball, and there so-called "experts" are not to be trusted. With that in mind, this proposed trade of 3 big Toronto chips for Penny is laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 19, 2006 -> 12:15 PM) You are looking too much at other factors, Rios doesnt even come close to the player that Wells is, not even close. I would take Wells in both of those scenarios. GG defense, huge offensive power, yes yes yes. I know Wells has had some very nice years, but he has had some not so nice years as well. Wells is certainly a desirable guy to have, but considering he isn't any real measurable amount better than Anderson defensively in CF, you are paying $100 million for the offensive upgrade, that the team doesn't necessarily need right now. That may change with the coming departures of Dye, Thome, and Crede eventually, but I think I would take my chances on trading for Rios as a corner OF, hoping BA will develop offensively, and saving my cash. You continue to ignore Rios pricetag and huge upside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyho7476 Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 19, 2006 -> 12:45 PM) I know Wells has had some very nice years, but he has had some not so nice years as well. Wells is certainly a desirable guy to have, but considering he isn't any real measurable amount better than Anderson defensively in CF, you are paying $100 million for the offensive upgrade, that the team doesn't necessarily need right now. That may change with the coming departures of Dye, Thome, and Crede eventually, but I think I would take my chances on trading for Rios as a corner OF, hoping BA will develop offensively, and saving my cash. You continue to ignore Rios pricetag and huge upside. I would love to see Rios on the southside...he could play CF this year, and move to RF next year. I just remember early in the season last year, when we went to Toronto, and in the first game, Rios was on base every time. And he was leading the league in hitting at the time. I'd love to see Javy's ass hit the road and bring in Rios. Get 'er done KW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 19, 2006 -> 12:45 PM) I know Wells has had some very nice years, but he has had some not so nice years as well. Wells is certainly a desirable guy to have, but considering he isn't any real measurable amount better than Anderson defensively in CF, you are paying $100 million for the offensive upgrade, that the team doesn't necessarily need right now. That may change with the coming departures of Dye, Thome, and Crede eventually, but I think I would take my chances on trading for Rios as a corner OF, hoping BA will develop offensively, and saving my cash. You continue to ignore Rios pricetag and huge upside. Im not ignoring it, in fact I am in favor of many of those types of trades, and you can read that point of view in other threads. But in this case we just disagree. I dont see Rios in the same sentence as Wells, and I view as possibly the best or one of the best players at his position. We arent going to see eye to eye, because we have different views on the main argument. I can see your side however, and I think both sides have their positives. Edited December 19, 2006 by RockRaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 19, 2006 -> 01:40 PM) Im not ignoring it, in fact I am in favor of many of those types of trades, and you can read that point of view in other threads. But in this case we just disagree. I dont see Rios in the same sentence as Wells, and I view as possibly the best or one of the best players at his position. We arent going to see eye to eye, because we have different views on the main argument. I cant see your side however, and I think both sides have their positives. And I agree with you. Wells superlatives are proven, Rios is pure speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 19, 2006 -> 01:44 PM) And I agree with you. Wells superlatives are proven, Rios is pure speculation. Actually, Wells has had only two good seasons out of six. He's been inconsistent in his career, far more so than guys with similar contracts (Beltran, Soriano). I understand where you are coming from Rock, but I don't think it is even a question when you consider one guy is making 6 figures while another is making 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 19, 2006 -> 01:57 PM) Actually, Wells has had only two good seasons out of six. He's been inconsistent in his career, far more so than guys with similar contracts (Beltran, Soriano). I understand where you are coming from Rock, but I don't think it is even a question when you consider one guy is making 6 figures while another is making 8. Rios has a career OSP of .762 --- Wells had a .762 OPS 5 years ago and the rest have all been superior since then. Sorry but Rios in no Vernon Wells. QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 19, 2006 -> 02:11 PM) Rios has a career OSP of .762 --- Wells had a .762 OPS 5 years ago and the rest have all been superior since then. Sorry but Rios in no Vernon Wells. Actually, I retract that staement. Rios may turn out to be quite a ballplayer. It's a gamble, but so is Wells' contract in comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 19, 2006 -> 10:27 AM) I was actually told a few days ago that scout.com is a horrific site for baseball, and there so-called "experts" are not to be trusted. With that in mind, this proposed trade of 3 big Toronto chips for Penny is laughable. I can vouge about that. They are a garbage site. And i don't see why people think McGowan and Johnson are so great. Ya Rios has a lot of upside but the other two are serviceable (even though I think Johnson is a pretty solid player) and McGowan isn't nearly as good of a prospect as some people indicate he was/is. I'd consider a package involving Ricky Romero and Rios though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 19, 2006 -> 01:57 PM) I understand where you are coming from Rock, but I don't think it is even a question when you consider one guy is making 6 figures while another is making 8. Im all about saving money with young players and all, especially pitching, but I view that as a complete throw out when you are talking about one of the best players at the position. just my POV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 20, 2006 -> 07:28 AM) I'd consider a package involving Ricky Romero and Rios though. Romero and Purcey would be the SP prospect I'd want along with Rios if we were going to trade either Vasquez or Garland to the Blue Jays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGame Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Do you think the Blue Jays would do a Rios/League/Romero for Garland or Vazquez? Or do I need to step away from the XBox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 QUOTE(DaGame2584 @ Dec 19, 2006 -> 02:54 PM) Do you think the Blue Jays would do a Rios/League/Romero for Garland or Vazquez? Or do I need to step away from the XBox? It depends just how much value they believe Rios has. On an unrelated sidenote I still think we should be trying to move Buehrle, unless we think we can ink them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGame Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 19, 2006 -> 05:56 PM) It depends just how much value they believe Rios has. On an unrelated sidenote I still think we should be trying to move Buehrle, unless we think we can ink them. I totally agree on Mark. What team do you guys think offer the best package for Garland or Vazquez? Mets? Jays? Rangers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 (edited) from Globesports.com Reed Johnson or Alex Rios are now surplus to requirements, and a package will be put together to pursue someone such as the Los Angeles Dodgers' Brad Penny or, maybe, the Oakland Athletics' Rich Harden or Dan Haren. Javier Vazquez of the Chicago White Sox liked working with Blue Jays pitching coach Brad Arnsberg when they were with the Montreal Expos, and the White Sox have been trying to trade him or Jon Garland. If you can get Rios for Vazquez, you do it in a heartbeat. Edited December 20, 2006 by Steve9347 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Dec 20, 2006 -> 06:32 AM) from Globesports.com If you can get Rios for Vazquez, you do it in a heartbeat. I wouldn't trade any of our starters straight up for Rios. It would be assinine....starting pitching >>>> outfielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 20, 2006 -> 11:01 AM) I wouldn't trade any of our starters straight up for Rios. It would be assinine....starting pitching >>>> outfielder. ^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 20, 2006 -> 09:02 AM) ^^^ Unless we are talking about Carl Crawford or Vernon Wells or a legit super star outfielder in which case I'd consider it (as long as the Sox had plans to find another starting pitcher via trade). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 20, 2006 -> 11:03 AM) Unless we are talking about Carl Crawford or Vernon Wells or a legit super star outfielder in which case I'd consider it (as long as the Sox had plans to find another starting pitcher via trade). As long as it's not Brandon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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