Bonderman gets 4 year extension

[Balta1701]

Linkity.

Pitcher Jeremy Bonderman and the Detroit Tigers agreed Monday to a $38 million, four-year contract.

 

Bonderman, who would have been eligible for free agency after the 2008 season, gets $4.5 million in 2007, $8.5 million in 2008 and $12.5 million in each of the following two seasons.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Bonderman was arbitration eligible for the next two years, so there are only two free-agent-like years of payment on the contract.

 

This is 2 years at close to what he would get at arbitration plus 2 years of what he would have gotten were he a free agent this year.

[Balta1701]

This is 2 years at close to what he would get at arbitration plus 2 years of what he would have gotten were he a free agent this year.

I think Bonderman would have gotten quite a bit more than $12.5 million a year if he was a Free Agent this year. He'd push $14-$15, if not beyond that. There's a small discount in there in exchange for getting the contract signed before he becomes a FA.

[Gregory Pratt]

Everytime these deals are announced I become upset because I don't think the White Sox will extend Mark Buehrle because "more than three years is too long!"

[Balta1701]

Everytime these deals are announced I become upset because I don't think the White Sox will extend Mark Buehrle because "more than three years is too long!"

Buehrle will probably be in the 5-6 year range when he hits the open market.

[Gregory Pratt]

I'm not saying they're cheap -- I'm saying they have ridiculous policies re: pitchers, both draft-wise and contract-wise.

[knightni]

McDowell, Alvarez, Fernandez, Foulke, Hernandez, Thigpen, Bannister, Burns, Hoyt, Eldred ALL broke down after their Sox years.

 

There is a method to the madness.

 

Just watch Freddy the next 3 years, you'll see.

Edited December 19, 2006 by knightni

[Gregory Pratt]

Perhaps. But there are plenty of other pitchers in the history of baseball that didn't break down after given money -- plenty of pitchers who have won twenty games and Cy Youngs and we don't have a lot of them because our organization doesn't understand pitching beyond "We need it to win."

[EvilMonkey]

One good year = $38 million? Damn, I should have learned how to pitch better.

[Gregory Pratt]

Where's our Oswalt, man, our Peavy? The closest we've got, Buehrle, is going to walk because the Sox won't go further than three years. Though I'm going to let it go, now, since, ah, it's a little off-topic.

[Heads22]

And neither of those first two guys has a ring, which is all I care about.

[Gregory Pratt]

Buehrle does and we're going to let him walk.

[JackTalkThai]

One good year = $38 million? Damn, I should have learned how to pitch better.

 

One good year? It's not always the pitcher's fault when they find themselves on horrible teams.

 

Bonderman's numbers and peripherals have improved each and every season that he's been in the majors.

 

Only two pitchers last year had over 200 K's and over 200 IP. Bonderman and Santana...and I believe Jeremy's only 6 months older than Justin Verlander. That was a smart and well-timed extension by the Tigers.

[Dick Allen]

Buehrle does and we're going to let him walk.

Buerhle wants to play for the Cardinals. He would really have to break the bank to stay here. The Cardinals are the team he would give a discount to. I think it would be crazy to sign him to a $100 million contract until you can determine without a doubt the second half of 2006 was an exception and not the rule. He was batting practice too often last year.

[Gregory Pratt]

I'm not so sure he's THAT set on playing for St. Louis. What bothers me is that everything said by the Front Office suggests that they aren't even seriously trying to re-sign him.

[YASNY]

Buehrle has said he doesn't want to play for the Cards, unless it is at the tail end of his career. He believes it would be too much of an intrusion on his personal life and his offseasons, to be pitching for the locally favorite team.

[EvilMonkey]

One good year? It's not always the pitcher's fault when they find themselves on horrible teams.

 

Bonderman's numbers and peripherals have improved each and every season that he's been in the majors.

 

Only two pitchers last year had over 200 K's and over 200 IP. Bonderman and Santana...and I believe Jeremy's only 6 months older than Justin Verlander. That was a smart and well-timed extension by the Tigers.

YES, one good year. Problems reading? So if he gets a break because he has played on bad teams, do other pitchers not deserve their $$ because they play on good teams? Last year was his best year. Winning record and alot of k's. Year before, 1 over .500, k/9 of almost 7 and a .271 BA against. Last year was an improvement in all catagories. So when does the improvement stop? YEs, especially considering the current climate for pitching, it was probably a wise move. My comment was more along the lines of the pricing just being totally out of whack, for him, as well as other (Lilly, meche) out there.

[Gregory Pratt]

I'd like to know where I said that he "WANTS to re-sign" -- I said that what bothers me is that it appears that the FO isn't even trying. Also: what do you mean that "judging by the comments he has made" he doesn't want to be here anymore? You can see that in his words, too, but you can also see his old words about playing in St. Louis as a distraction and find them noteworthy, too.

 

Reinsdorf ran his mouth about Buehrle's hat; and several articles have suggested that the Sox are done tendering future contracts to our current staff. That's what bothers me.

[TLAK]

Perhaps. But there are plenty of other pitchers in the history of baseball that didn't break down after given money -- plenty of pitchers who have won twenty games and Cy Youngs and we don't have a lot of them because our organization doesn't understand pitching beyond "We need it to win."

In the history of baseball 27 pitchers have had salaries of $10 million or more dollars, of these only Pedro Martinez 1999, Randy Johnson 2001, 2002, Andy Pettite 2003 and Curt Shilling 2005 won 20 or more games. Only Matinez, Johnson and Roger Clemons have won Cy Youngs at that salary level.

 

Three former White Sox pitchers have won the Cy Young. Bartolo Colon, Pete Vuckovich and Steve Stone. The Sox lost Vuckovich in his second pro year to the expansion draft, Stone was traded to the grub in the Ron Santo deal [yick]. Colon left as a FA after 2003, won the Cy in 2005 and broke down in the play offs. Last season he was 1-5 in 56 1/3 innings for the Angels at a salary of $14 million dollars.

 

I think there are situations to go long years and dollars with pitching but the player has to be truly exceptional, like Johann Santana. I love the Sox guys but, objectively, none of them are at such a level, they are stonger as a group than as individuals.

[southsider2k5]

How do you know there have no been attempts? If your just basing you thoughts off a few articles that were published in the Trib, than I should just stop now.

 

There are tons of things that go on behind closed doors that we have no idea about, and sometimes never find out took place.

 

My point is this. Mark knows if he gets out onto the open market, he can get a 4-5,maybe even 6 year deal somewhere. Good for Mark.

 

He also knows that it would idiotic to sign a long extension now(he would be signing a deal to cover his "peak years") when he has just had his worst season by far.

Now look at it for the Sox side. Why would the Sox re-sign a Mark Buehrle right now when the 2nd half of the season he was completely lost, and there weren't really any signs of him losing any of his stuff. Why would you give a 4 or 5 year deal to that? I'm not a GM, but that just doesn't seem like a very good business move to lock up such an un-certainty.

 

Obviously trying to lock Mark up and getting him under market value would be great, but neither Buehrle nor his agent are going to let that happen.

 

And there-in lies the problem. Kenny Williams says that we can't resign these guys, which instantly turns into we don't WANT resign these guys. We have no idea of what has gone on behind the scenes, for all we know Kenny called Mark and asked him what he was looking for in an extention, and once he said "7 years at $100 million" that was when KW realized he COULDN"T resign Mark. There are an awful lot of assumptions being made at this point, based on one small statement.

[YASNY]

And there-in lies the problem. Kenny Williams says that we can't resign these guys, which instantly turns into we don't WANT resign these guys. We have no idea of what has gone on behind the scenes, for all we know Kenny called Mark and asked him what he was looking for in an extention, and once he said "7 years at $100 million" that was when KW realized he COULDN"T resign Mark. There are an awful lot of assumptions being made at this point, based on one small statement.

 

Assumptions are the mother of all f*** ups.

[JackTalkThai]

My comment was more along the lines of the pricing just being totally out of whack, for him, as well as other (Lilly, meche) out there.

 

The Tigers paying Bonderman $12.5 million a year at what would be his first year of free agency following his arbitration years (when he will only be 26 years old) is not only NOT out of whack, it is a veritable bargain for a team like Detroit.

 

To compare his situation and contract to guys like Meche and Lilly is just silly.

 

How much do YOU think a 26 year power righty who registered 200+ IP and 200+ K's and who has proven himself in the playoffs could receive on the open market with the whole league bidding for his services? A whole hell of a lot more than $12.5M per.

 

So when does the improvement stop?

 

Well considering that he was only 23 years old this past season I would say that his growth curve is still climbing rather steadily. When do you think power pitchers generally peak? Definitely not in their mid twenties. I'd say their early to mid 30's when their power begins to click down a notch and they're finally forced to become a complete pitcher with a full repetoire of pitches.

 

Obviously there're always exceptions but historically speaking, he's not even close to his prime yet. I mean, the kid is still only using two pitches out there. Wait until he finally trusts his change-up...that'll be when he jumps to the next level. Bonderman's best days are still a few years ahead of him.

Edited December 19, 2006 by JackTalkThai

[Chisoxfn]

One good year = $38 million? Damn, I should have learned how to pitch better.

It was more than just one good year, but I'm one of Bondy's bigger backers. I think this was a great move by the Tigers and Bondy would have got more than that 12 million on this years market and I still think its a relatively fair dollar value for the guy.

 

He would have been the 2nd best FA on the market (behind Zito and ahead of Schmidt, imo).

[EvilMonkey]

It was more than just one good year, but I'm one of Bondy's bigger backers. I think this was a great move by the Tigers and Bondy would have got more than that 12 million on this years market and I still think its a relatively fair dollar value for the guy.

 

He would have been the 2nd best FA on the market (behind Zito and ahead of Schmidt, imo).

I'm not debating the 'value' of it, especially considering this screwed up FA market. But yes, one good year. last year. 2005 he was one game over .500, and his ERA and K's were on par with his first 3 years. I'm not saying his other years were BAD years, just not GOOD years.

[EvilMonkey]

The Tigers paying Bonderman $12.5 million a year at what would be his first year of free agency following his arbitration years (when he will only be 26 years old) is not only NOT out of whack, it is a veritable bargain for a team like Detroit.

 

To compare his situation and contract to guys like Meche and Lilly is just silly.

 

How much do YOU think a 26 year power righty who registered 200+ IP and 200+ K's and who has proven himself in the playoffs could receive on the open market with the whole league bidding for his services? A whole hell of a lot more than $12.5M per.

 

 

 

Well considering that he was only 23 years old this past season I would say that his growth curve is still climbing rather steadily. When do you think power pitchers generally peak? Definitely not in their mid twenties. I'd say their early to mid 30's when their power begins to click down a notch and they're finally forced to become a complete pitcher with a full repetoire of pitches.

 

Obviously there're always exceptions but historically speaking, he's not even close to his prime yet. I mean, the kid is still only using two pitches out there. Wait until he finally trusts his change-up...that'll be when he jumps to the next level. Bonderman's best days are still a few years ahead of him.

The comparison between him and the others was general, at best, in decrying the huge dollar amounts in the contracts being awarded this year, not a comparison of ability or worth. 3 years ago, you would have been laughed at for giving him that much money, even with his current stats. Now, that much money is the norm.

 

Also, he has registered 200+ Ip and K's for the first time in his career. I like to see it more than one year, otherwise it could just have been luck. Maybe he breaks down next year from the use? Maybe not? As for when he will peak, only time will tell. As for his changeup, ha can trust it all he wants, but it had better be more than a showme pitch or it will do him no good. Best years ahead of him? probably. Worth the money? Only in today's market.