Gregory Pratt Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 Done. But seriously: I'll be bitterly disappointed if Charlie isn't Fifth next year as I can't quite figure out why we wouldn't want to season our new pitchers in the minors for awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 There's no one that really deserves the fifth spot right now. Someone will have to earn it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 BeWareTheNewSox 5 Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 QUOTE(Heads22 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 08:16 PM) There's no one that really deserves the fifth spot right now. Someone will have to earn it. and then they'll be traded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 QUOTE(Heads22 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 08:16 PM) There's no one that really deserves the fifth spot right now. Someone will have to earn it. Yes and no. I'm opposed to bringing Danks along and starting his arbitration clock. He's still young and could use extra time in the minors even if he winds up being Cy Young in Spring Training. Unless Haeger bombs, I really think he's our best option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 I see Gavin ultimately in the fifth spot but that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 08:22 PM) Yes and no. I'm opposed to bringing Danks along and starting his arbitration clock. He's still young and could use extra time in the minors even if he winds up being Cy Young in Spring Training. Unless Haeger bombs, I really think he's our best option. Who the hell knows? Who knows who will even be on the team in3 months? As recently as noon today I don't think anybody here would have ever dreamt that Brandon would be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 I can't stand spring training competition for roster spots. Boone Logan was unhittable in spring training last year, and deservedly earned a spot in the bullpen. When the games counted it was a different story. As far as Danks' little brother, I think that ship has sailed. If the Sox want to sign him, they will have to draft him again IIRC, and if he's really all that great, and KW has the White Sox as great as he thinks he does, he won't be available. As for KW, this is a guy, who if the White Sox didn't win a WS in 2005 would have his head called for daily by the majority of this board. (Me included) 2004-5 offseason, KW got very, very lucky. If you recall, his original plan called for Vizquel as SS, and Uribe playing the super sub role, with Harris getting time at 2nd. He also wanted Jaret Wright, and had him just about signed until the Yankees thankfully scooped him up. He had Ben Davis catching. He initially wanted no part of AJ. Funny now how he uses "people didn't want us to sign AJ" as a way to show he is right more than everyone else. He didn't want to sign AJ. Hawk talked him into it. He also screwed around with Iguchi and almost didn't sign him. If it wasn't an offseason after Kaz Matsui appeared to be a bust, Iguchi never would have been available at the bargain price the Sox signed him at. If KW's plan A came to fruition, the WS would never have happened. It was probably his plan C or D or even lower that occurred and now he's a genius. I also wonder just what kind of trade value Buerhle has. He's going to make a decent amount of money. He's coming off a terrible second half, and unless he's traded to St. Louis, there is virtually no chance of signing him to an extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Legend-Of-Pujols Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 Lol dumb trade if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 I'll reserve judgment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 02:00 PM) If the goal is to acquire stud pitching prospects, which it clearly is, why was Garland more valuable than McCarthy -- why is Danks better than Hirsh? Can't say I quite like this trade -- leaves us with a huge fifth starter hole -- but, well, I never thought McCarthy was great. Wonder how he'll pitch in the August heat of Texas. Isn't Hirsh 24 or 25 already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 Ozzie not being impressed with McCarthy has been well documented. I also wonder if there was any feeling in the organization that Ozzie would hold it against McCarthy that Garcia is pitching for someone else contributed to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty22hotty Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 Way to F up the team AGAIN Kenny 3rd place here we come Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 QUOTE(scotty22hotty @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 08:59 PM) Way to F up the team AGAIN Kenny 3rd place here we come We're already there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 QUOTE(Heads22 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 06:52 PM) I'll reserve judgment. I just can't reserve judgment on this one for one simple reason: I don't feel like we got our money's worth. I just feel like we could, and in fact should have gotten so much more for Brandon McCarthy, and that alone leaves me unhappy. BMac could struggle and Danks and Masset could come out and dominate and the other guy could turn into our Liriano, and I'd still feel disappointed by this deal, because I just think we should have been able to get more for BMac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 You're only going to get so much for someone who hasn't started for even half a season, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 QUOTE(Heads22 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 07:19 PM) You're only going to get so much for someone who hasn't started for even half a season, IMO. Then to my eyes, you are simply out of your mind if you trade the guy. I mean, if nothing else, they've talked Soriano, Griffey, maybe Crawford, etc., for BMac. Immediate game/season changing players. If the issue is that no one will give up enough for BMac because he hasn't proven himself in the big leagues due to only starting for a half year, why trade him? That's the classic trading-at-lowest-value problem. Unless KW and Cooper were 100% convinced that BMac would be terrible starting this year, which personally I can barely imagine from what I've seen, then we traded BMac at his lowest possible value for at best equal value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 I'm convinved there were issues between Ozzie and Brandon, and the Brandon issue was the easier one to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Heads22 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 07:31 PM) I'm convinved there were issues between Ozzie and Brandon, and the Brandon issue was the easier one to deal with. That I can understand, but to my eyes, that still doesn't justify the deal. No matter how the future shakes out, a year, two, 5 years from now, I will still look back on this deal and think that we didn't get as much for BMac as we could or should have. In a quote WGN had, audio, from KW, he was saying he wouldn't trade Bmac unless he was totally blown away by the deal. I simply can not in any way understand how this deal could blow him away. And that's my problem. With a kid like BMac, he could and should have been blown away to deal him, even if Ozzie has a problem with him. You just don't dump a kid with 5 years left before arbitration and a big time name. Even if the deal was just with Texas, there should have been another player in it. Something quality. If not that Hurley person, at least someone I might care about as the last guy instead of a throw-in. Edited December 24, 2006 by Balta1701 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaus kinski Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 I dont think there is much doubt about issues w/Guillen. I still have doubts about Guillen when things get tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 Just found the guy in Texas's organization I wanted...Joaquin Arias. Spent last year at AAA, shortstop with a good infield arm, decent batting average (.313 at AA, only .263 at AAA, so probably needs another year at AAA), but a ton of speed, 30, 20, and 26 stolen bases at A, AA, and AAA in the last 3 years. In other words, he's my replacement for Uribe if the Sox don't pick up his option after 2007. And it gives Ozzie the speed he loves at a position where he'd love to have speed and a position where we have room to upgrade. Dah well, too late for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 Well, just get Willie to get a BMac Rangers jersey...his arm will fall off. I really don't know what to think. Having talented lefties is always good to have. The deal is essentiall BMac for Danks and Masset, the other two guys shouldn't matter. Danks is probably a better prospect long term than BMac, but not right now, and Masset is a pen arm that could help right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 24, 2006 -> 03:42 AM) Just found the guy in Texas's organization I wanted...Joaquin Arias. Spent last year at AAA, shortstop with a good infield arm, decent batting average (.313 at AA, only .263 at AAA, so probably needs another year at AAA), but a ton of speed, 30, 20, and 26 stolen bases at A, AA, and AAA in the last 3 years. In other words, he's my replacement for Uribe if the Sox don't pick up his option after 2007. And it gives Ozzie the speed he loves at a position where he'd love to have speed and a position where we have room to upgrade. Dah well, too late for that. Oh, you mean the Joaquin Arias who had a .296 OBP last year in the PCL? That Joaquin Arias? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxwon Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 QUOTE(Heads22 @ Dec 24, 2006 -> 03:45 AM) Well, just get Willie to get a BMac Rangers jersey...his arm will fall off. I really don't know what to think. Having talented lefties is always good to have. The deal is essentiall BMac for Danks and Masset, the other two guys shouldn't matter. Danks is probably a better prospect long term than BMac, but not right now, and Masset is a pen arm that could help right now. i really think most of you are so wrong. this will be a great deal for us, all the young arms we got are going to produce. just trust me on this, this will be a trade for all to remember and in the long run praise. have faith in KW- all of you . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 07:46 PM) Oh, you mean the Joaquin Arias who had a .296 OBP last year in the PCL? That Joaquin Arias? Yes. And I looked at his numbers. He supposedly plays good defense at Shortstop, a position where we need a guy to fill in for Uribe in either 08 or 09 at the latest, and he has the speed that Ozzie wants. His problem as a pure leadoff hitter is his OBP, that I will grant you, he doesn't walk much. But compared to a "nobody" as a throw-in, I would certainly have been more happy with him than with just what we got. For what BMac has shown me, I just want more than 1 possible starter and 1 likely bullpen guy. Even if it's a better-than-Owens gamble, I'd take it. But you can't tell me you're excited about the 3rd part of this deal, even if he is just in his first year out of high school. That 6-16 record, 1.42 WHIP, and 5.41 ERA doesn't excite me very much, compared with someone who could fill an actual need for us. Edited December 24, 2006 by Balta1701 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 QUOTE(soxwon @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 09:48 PM) i really think most of you are so wrong. this will be a great deal for us, all the young arms we got are going to produce. just trust me on this, this will be a trade for all to remember and in the long run praise. have faith in KW- all of you . I don't know why you're referring to me, I'm probably the least "down" about this deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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