McCarthy Traded to Texas

[fathom]

Why do more people not think that offense was a huge issue during the 2nd half of last year? Even when our pitching was subpar during the first half of the year, we had a 6 game WC lead at the ASB. However, once our hitting became below average in the 2nd half of the year, that's when our lead evaporated quicker than SSI at a Greg Walker Appreciation Luncheon.

[DBAHO]

Why do more people not think that offense was a huge issue during the 2nd half of last year? Even when our pitching was subpar during the first half of the year, we had a 6 game WC lead at the ASB. However, once our hitting became below average in the 2nd half of the year, that's when our lead evaporated quicker than SSI at a Greg Walker Appreciation Luncheon.

Because I think most of the players at fault for that will rebound.

 

Jim Thome slowed down in the 2nd half, and no he's not going to hit at his 1st half pace, but he'll be better than what he was in the 2nd half of 05 I'd imagine.

 

IF Podsednik is healthy (which is a big IF), then he could be closer to what he did in 2005 than in 2006.

 

I expect Brian Anderson to hit around the .260 mark, which will be an upgrade on what he did last season.

 

Juan Uribe, well you never know what he's going to do. But could he possibly be any worse than last season when he had a below .300 OBP?

 

That's not to say it's an issue, but the rotation and bullpen were more major reasons for us not making the playoffs in mind.

[hitlesswonder]

Why do more people not think that offense was a huge issue during the 2nd half of last year? Even when our pitching was subpar during the first half of the year, we had a 6 game WC lead at the ASB. However, once our hitting became below average in the 2nd half of the year, that's when our lead evaporated quicker than SSI at a Greg Walker Appreciation Luncheon.

 

People look at the runs scored for the year in 2006 and assume offense won't be a problem. Of course, other people look at Thome, Konerko, Iguchi, Crede, Dye, and AJ and see players that are older and several of which have injury concerns. It seems unlikely Thome and particularly Dye will post OPSs over 1000 again.

 

I'd be OK with the offense if they simply got a player with a decent OBP to hit 1 or 2. In that case, I'd be willing to gamble on Anderson improving, and living with Uribe's glove/power/terrible OBP.

[RockRaines]

the sox are loaded for 07

and you might not like it now, but 2-3 years the sox will be the most sought after team for deals because kw stockpiled pitchers.

in 3 years i see our rotation as

lance broadway

ray liotta

andy sisco

john danks

gavin floyd

charlie haeger

 

if this comes to frutation, KW will be looked upon as the best GM in the game bar none.

Ray Liotta took a huge step back, I wouldnt put him in that rotation at all.

[ShoeLessRob]

Ray Liotta took a huge step back, I wouldnt put him in that rotation at all.

 

No Gio aswell? Eesh.

[Chet Lemon]

good points on the last few pages of posts i skimmed over, but wouldn't McCulloch be more likely to join the rotation over Liotta three years from now?

[Heads22]

good points on the last few pages of posts i skimmed over, but wouldn't McCulloch be more likely to join the rotation over Liotta three years from now?

 

Yup.

[DBAHO]

good points on the last few pages of posts i skimmed over, but wouldn't McCulloch be more likely to join the rotation over Liotta three years from now?

Yeah he would.

 

Him and Broadway project to be nothing more than 3rd-4th starters though, but I'm fairly sure they'll reach the major league level one day.

 

Gio and Danks are possible #2 starters, with Danks probably the better prospect.

 

So that's 4 guys I think 3-4 years from now, could all be in our rotation.

 

And then there's likes of Floyd and Haeger and nobody really knows how they're going to project in the future. And there's Sisco as well who could be turned into a SP.

 

Nick Masset could be turned into a starter again, Liotta could rebound, Lucas Harrell, Jack Egbert or Adam Russel could really produce down at B-Ham in 07, Richard Brooks could rebound down at Kanny etc. so all in all, there are a LOT of pitching spects in our system now who could be up the big team in a few years, and it's a good situation to be in.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Let's do, so pay attention.

 

Danks pitched High-A ball in the California League, at both Stockton and Bakersfield, which is a hitter's paradise. The fact that Danks bounced back from a subpar half season at Stockton with an outstanding season at Bakersfield says loads. He then was promoted to AA, the hardest promotion for a minor-leaguer to handle, at 21, and pitched very well in 2006. In 2005 he was 20-years-old and in AA, so cut him some slack. God forbid he can't dominate AA at 20, the f***ing bum.

 

And then, at 21, he was promoted to AAA PCL, which is even more of a hitter's league than the Cal League. Some ballparks, namely Albuquerque, I could hit home runs out of. Think Coors Field, no humidor, and then lower the gravity a bit. The fact that Danks averaged less than a hit per innings and a strikeout per inning, for a 21-year-old, is simply outstanding. But if you want to hold him to the standards that he should be turning water into wine, knock yourself out.

 

Now compare our situation to others in the AL Central. Minnesota lost 40% of their rotation in the offseason and Carlos Silva is usually a lock to suck. Here's their projected starting rotation:

 

Santana

Bonser

Silva

Garza

Baker/Slowey/???

 

Their oldest pitcher is also 32. They are going to have growing pains, not to mention some of their pitchers are going to flake out (Reyes) and come down to Earth a bit (Neshek). The Twins shouldn't be worried about now, but rather two to three years down the road if even 25% of their prospects pan out. They're looking very good.

 

Tigers are looking at:

 

Bonderman

Rogers (pine tarring and fluking his way to an abberation near you)

Verlander

Robertson

Grilli (laffo)/Maroth/Miner

 

I'd go to war with our rotation against theirs, 5th starter and all, any day of the week.

 

Awesome, Cerb...Just...awesome.

[kapkomet]

Yea, and *crickets* since that post, if you all follow what I'm saying. Imagine that. Oh, lookie here. I spoke too soon. This ought to be a gem.

[Heads22]

Yeah he would.

 

Him and Broadway project to be nothing more than 3rd-4th starters though, but I'm fairly sure they'll reach the major league level one day.

 

Gio and Danks are possible #2 starters, with Danks probably the better prospect.

 

So that's 4 guys I think 3-4 years from now, could all be in our rotation.

 

And then there's likes of Floyd and Haeger and nobody really knows how they're going to project in the future. And there's Sisco as well who could be turned into a SP.

 

Nick Masset could be turned into a starter again, Liotta could rebound, Lucas Harrell, Jack Egbert or Adam Russel could really produce down at B-Ham in 07, Richard Brooks could rebound down at Kanny etc. so all in all, there are a LOT of pitching spects in our system now who could be up the big team in a few years, and it's a good situation to be in.

 

He was one of the best pitchers in the organization this past year.

 

2.94 ERA for WS in 25 starts

0.86 ERA for Birm in 4 starts

 

I was on his bandwagon before anyone else though, so . I claim him. He's 23 though, so he needs to keep moving up.

[EvilMonkey]

I am sick of hearing 'injury concern' regarding any of the players here. Unless they hurt their back every f*cking year, or have arm surgery for fun every off season, everyone is an injury risk. Zumaya hurt himself playing a video game! Is he now an injury risk? Because Dye was hurt before, does that make him an injury risk? Every ball player has been hurt once to some degree. Now Griffey Jr, THERE is a player you can say that about! Everyone else???

[DBAHO]

He was one of the best pitchers in the organization this past year.

 

2.94 ERA for WS in 25 starts

0.86 ERA for Birm in 4 starts

 

I was on his bandwagon before anyone else though, so . I claim him. He's 23 though, so he needs to keep moving up.

He's my AAP.

 

What I was most impressed with thoug from him, is that he only gave up something like 2 gopher balls all season.

 

If he can continue to keep the ball in the park, it's really going to help his chances of making it into our rotation one day.

 

Will be interesting to see how he does at Charlotte though once he makes the jump up.

[greg775]

Because I think most of the players at fault for that will rebound.

 

Jim Thome slowed down in the 2nd half, and no he's not going to hit at his 1st half pace, but he'll be better than what he was in the 2nd half of 05 I'd imagine.

 

IF Podsednik is healthy (which is a big IF), then he could be closer to what he did in 2005 than in 2006.

 

I expect Brian Anderson to hit around the .260 mark, which will be an upgrade on what he did last season.

 

Juan Uribe, well you never know what he's going to do. But could he possibly be any worse than last season when he had a below .300 OBP?

 

That's not to say it's an issue, but the rotation and bullpen were more major reasons for us not making the playoffs in mind.

 

--I expect Thome's numbers to decline only cause he had an incredible season.

--Pods I fear is finished.

-- BA can't hit, folks, but he CAN field.

--Uribe has talent, but must be a headcase, cause he hasn't improved. When he gets hot, he's hot.

But he's a bad undisciplined hitter.

I see Crede, Iguchi, Konerko, Thome, Dye, AJ being great as usual. I wish we'd play Cintron every day.

Screw Uribe.

[Heads22]

--I expect Thome's numbers to decline only cause he had an incredible season.

--Pods I fear is finished.

-- BA can't hit, folks, but he CAN field.

--Uribe has talent, but must be a headcase, cause he hasn't improved. When he gets hot, he's hot.

But he's a bad undisciplined hitter.

I see Crede, Iguchi, Konerko, Thome, Dye, AJ being great as usual. I wish we'd play Cintron every day.

Screw Uribe.

 

Your first three can be debated, as well as that Cintron bit.

[greg775]

Your first three can be debated, as well as that Cintron bit.

 

I know. This year is one big question mark. Maybe all years are, but this

one seems more than most.

[TheBigHurt]

QUOTE(EvilMonkey @ Dec 26, 2006 -> 11:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am sick of hearing 'injury concern' regarding any of the players here. Unless they hurt their back every f*cking year, or have arm surgery for fun every off season, everyone is an injury risk. Zumaya hurt himself playing a video game! Is he now an injury risk? Because Dye was hurt before, does that make him an injury risk? Every ball player has been hurt once to some degree. Now Griffey Jr, THERE is a player you can say that about! Everyone else???

 

AMEN.

[That funky motion]

Did anyone hear Hawk on AM1000 this morning? He was talking about how other teams liked hitting off Bmac. He also stated that he never get his Curve called for a strike, even though it is one and he did'nt throw his change enough. Hawk was'nt rippin Bmac, but he brought up some good points.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

We need to stop discussing this, its done and we cant change it.

[iamshack]

What else did Hawk say this morning, for those of us who missed it?

[Jimbo's Drinker]

What else did Hawk say this morning, for those of us who missed it?

 

 

stretch, can of corn, he gawn.

[Kyyle23]

We need to stop discussing this, its done and we cant change it.

 

Earth to Jimbo's Drinker:

 

This is a messageboard, people will discuss anything, anytime, for any reason. It doesnt have to be something you can change, just something you can discuss.

[kapkomet]

still, *crickets* from our know-it-all fan... This is a funny, funny thread in a way.

[LVSoxFan]

The main bone of contention here seems to be whether the '07 Sox are as strong, on paper, as the '06 Sox. Here are some thoughts on the matter.

 

To begin with, let's take a look at the starting rotation. We've got Buehrle, Contreras, Garland, Vasquez and whoever vs. those 4 and Garcia in '06.

 

Buehrle has been, historically, a solid starter who had a horrid 2nd half last year. I'd be inclined to believe that we'll see the historically dependable Buehrle, especially since he's in a contract year, rather than the Buehrle of the 2nd half of '06. Summation: Probable improvement over '06 performance.

 

Contreras: Assuming he's 41 is as assinine as assuming he's 35. In my opinion he's a solid to bet to at least match his '06 performance. Summation: Equal to '06.

 

Garland: Jon didn't have a year as good as he had in '05. He had a bad 1st half and a very solid 2nd half. I believe at an absolute minimum he'll match '06 and I have strong feeling he'll surpass his '06 performance. If you recall, he has stated he had a dead arm early in the season. Summation: Garland will be measurably better in '07 than in '06.

 

Vasquez: His 2nd half leads me to believe that after a half year with Cooper, that he improved over the Vasquez that pitched below his capabilities the last couple/three years. Wishful thinking maybe, but I liked what I saw of him after the break. Summation: probable improvement ... maybe. Regression is doubtful.

 

Whoever vs. Garcia: I think Garcia will have a better year than last, but that is moot point. It's all about his '06 season vs. what we can expect from Mr. Whoever. Will we get 17 wins out of the 5 slot. Probably not. Will we have a guy throwing 86 mph and unable to hold runners on? If Heager wins the 5 spot, then yes. But that's a knuckleballer. We've got several guys who can step into this slot that have the potential to give us an acceptable performance. With all this talent, I believe one will come through. Summation: A probable drop off from Garcia.

 

Overall, I believe the rotation will be stronger in '07 than '06. I see a probable improvement in 3 of our 4 veterans, with a drop off in the #5 slot. I don't believe the dropoff will be a repeat of '03 - '04 though.

 

I believe the bullpen will be stronger. We'll have MacDougal all year as opposed to a half season of a terrible Cliff Politte. BMac, Riske and Cotts were questionable to bad overall. Jenks and Thorton seem to have found their niche and should be able to maintain their level of performance. So who do we have to fill slots 4 through 6 out of the pen? Aardsma, Sisco, Masset and/or the losers of the 5th starter competition out of Heager, Danks, Floyd, Broadway ... maybe Tracey, Phillips, Gonzalez. There is enough talent there to effectively fill out the bullpen.

 

Now, let's talk about our so called holes. Backup catcher, we seem to agree, has been improved. Probably so, but it's not a lock. Pods is getting a lot of crap around here, and his '06 performance justifies that. However, I believe that he was never able to get into proper game shape due to the hernia surgery he had in the offseason. Look at spring training and his start to the season. He wasn't ready. He never had the chance to get healthy and get in shape. Pods doesn't have enough talent to get by at less than 100%. I don't expect a lot, but I do expect an improvement from Pods in '07 due to the fact he'll be healthy and ready to go. Anderson has been around the league now and he should improve just from having a year of MLB under his belt. The key word, of course, was 'should'. It's no given, but BA has too much natural talent to have such a bad year again. As for backup CF, not having Mackoviak out there will be a drastic defensive upgrade. Either of Sweeney, Owens or that dude we picked up early this offseason (name escapes me for now) will have to be better than Mack. Uribe ... I don't know. We don't know if this attempted murder thing will continue hanging over his head or not and how it will effect him. Worse case scenario, Cintron starts and we lose defensively but gain with the bat. Hopefully, Uribe will be around to a late inning defensive replacement. In general, I don't think our holes are as glaring as has been made out.

 

As for the rest. Dye may backslide, but the dude is a pro and he's in a contract year ... so who knows. Crede's back is always an issue but he's been coming into his own as a solid major leaguer. If he can stray healthy we can expect at least as much from him. If AJ gets more rest, I believe he'll be more consistant over the course of the year with a probable slight upgrade overall, because he really hit the skids in the 2nd half. There's no reason to expect less out of PK, Thome, Iguchi or the bench.

 

In general, I see plenty of reasons to be optimistic about our chances in '07.

YASNY wins the thread. Can't disagree with this.

 

IMO the Sox in '06 looked... tired. All year long.

 

Having had a good long offseason now, and enjoying the shame of being third place (and we're probably not expected to do much in the central this year), I look forward to 2007. Anything will be better than 2nd 1/2 2006, where I couldn't even bear to go to games (sacrilege!).

 

 

BTW on McCarthy: I was shocked, SHOCKED when I heard that B-Mac was gone because for a couple of years now he's been groomed as our Pitcher of the Future and I remember KW saying last year that B-Mac was off the table when it cames to other clubs.

 

Am I sad? I guess I would've liked to see him finally have a full year starting, and he definitely seemed like a White Sock and the fans loved him.

 

That said, as a reliever he was average-to-poor and I did notice the disturbing trend to give up big-time home runs. That curveball could be wicked but I think batters figured out to wait that one out and go for his fastball, which seemed completely flat.

 

I can only believe that KW knows what he's doing so in the end I'm okay with this deal. On paper we, as a team, should be killing this year--but we said that last year. If the players step up to their potential--which they certainly did NOT last year--we should be okay.

 

If the Sox revert to another second or third-place finish harking back to the pre-2005 Comedy Central days, then we can all pull out our knives for KW after next season. I'm prepared to wait and see.

 

YASNY and others point out the thing people are forgetting: we still have Buehrle, Garland, Vasquez and Contreras as starters, and a couple of guys who will have to fight for the five spot. Sheet, that's more pitching than most clubs have right there.

[SoxFan562004]

Yansy's post does a great job of summing up my feelings about the '07 Sox, but I'll add one additional item.

 

I know you don't want to rely on your opponents taking a step back, but I think it is a factor to look at.

 

-Liriano gone for the year hurts the Twins a lot. They'll still be solid, but not running him out every 5th deal will be a big blow

 

-Adding Sheff is a solid move for the Tigers, but I believe espn (no link at hand, sorry) ran a story saying how much pitching a ton of innings for young pitchers really effects them the next year. I expect to see some drop in the Tigers staff next year.

 

With that said, I think it will be a very good 4 team race. I think the Indians always scare me with their young talent, just haven't clicked enough in the last 2 years

Edited December 27, 2006 by SoxFan562004