Balta1701 Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 Question for folks in the know: Do either Danks or Masset immediately go onto the White Sox 40 man roster? Just wondering if this opens up a slot for a FA signing or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg The Bull Luzinski Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 04:28 PM) Let's go Haeger! I have to go with you on this one, I think Haeger is going to be the best knuckle baller in the bigs since the Niekro Bros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baines3 Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 (edited) As of now, I would put this down among the dumbest trades the White Sox have made. What in the world was KW thinking when he pulled that trade? Edited December 23, 2006 by whitesox1976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 06:31 PM) Question for folks in the know: Do either Danks or Masset immediately go onto the White Sox 40 man roster? Just wondering if this opens up a slot for a FA signing or not. masset is on the 40, danks is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnhillegas Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:18 PM) So we won't trade McCarthy for Crawford or Rocco, but we'll trade him for two pitching prospects from a terrible organization at developing pitchers? What in the world is KW planning to do with our rotation in 2008? Yes yes yes yes yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitoMB345 Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 06:30 PM) Hell, I love the concept of throwing Charlie into the bullpen this year, but yes, I think there will be a huge difference between the performance of Charlie Haeger and Brandon McCarthy next year. Or Brandon and Floyd, Brandon and Danks, Brandon and anyone else you name. Just from watching Brandon the last 2 years, I think he's going to wind up being one of the best pitchers in the AL. Agreed as well. Look at what Brandon did in November 2005. I don't care if you say he didn't have enough games to prove anything... the guy stepped the f*** up. In the heat of a race with the Indians, he was there shutting everyone down. I still think he was too uncomfortable coming out of the pen last year as well. I was expecting big things out of McCarthy, or atleast a big name in return for him. We didn't get that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 QUOTE(TitoMB345 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 02:30 PM) And in the end, we still need a LF leadoff hitter. How is this trade fixing that problem? The fact that you have a bigger need doesn't mean you can't make other deals. That's not a solid argument against this deal. The only way they're possibly linked is if we would have had a deal involving McCarthy for a leadoff hitter, which, given the potential value of starting pitching, would have been a pretty silly deal no matter who we got (assuming McCarthy alone wasn't enough to get Crawford). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 10:24 PM) I just don't understand why you do this trade. B-Mac is only 23, has had plenty of Major League seasoning, and isanincredible starting pitcher. exactly if we could have gotten Danks for Anderson why didn't we just do that instead? Its much easier to find OFs than solid pitching. Also, why not trade a guy like Vazquez for young pitching and save money in the process while KEEPING BMac. There were sooo many other ways to work at this, this was completely unnessessary. He obviously wants to make room for someone, either it being Gio, Floyd, Haegar, Broadway or Danks.... All is i know is that our rotation has 3 solid starters in Buerhle, Garland and Contreras a very IFFY starter in Vazquez, and a big ? at the 5th spot!!!! We had 6 legitimate starters going into 2007, and now there is a ? at the #5 spot? Something is wrong with this picture. And one more thing, Sisco better not even be considered as the 5th starter, put him in the bullpen. I would much rather see a guy like Broadway, Gonzales or Danks take his bumps down there and learning how to pitch at the ML level kind of like how Garland did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 (edited) Utterly ridiculous. I've read this entire thread, expecting quotes from Williams or various news outlets to filter in news regarding additional prospects. Where's the rationale behind this deal? Chisoxfn -- you alledge inside information which may have necessitated this move. I don't want to pry, but I believe many here would appreciate if you could atleast give a slight clue. PM me if you're not willing to post it. Personally, I've never felt anyone on our club was untouchable. For the right price, I wouldn't have been against dealing MccArthy. But this deal.....is absolutely pathetic. How exactly did we not end up with Hurley? Why did we trade McCarthy at this particular point? I just don't understand. IF Williams had intentions all along of dealing McCarthy, why not wait until later in the offseason? We were already set in the rotation. This move appears to be, once again, Williams not understanding the meaning of leverage. How the f*** can you not trade McCarthy, considering his service time and past production, for atleast two of an organizations top prospects? Williams has disappointed me here. I have no further faith in him; unless of course it involves "low key," or "under the radar" moves. He better damn well hope either Masset or Danks reach or exceed the level of McCarthy. Everyone in Chicago will be monitoring Brandon's progress in Texas. If he develops into a quality pitcher, Williams can't claim ignorance. We've all seen his capabilities within the starting rotation. It's just another head scratcher from Williams. I suppose one benefit from this deal is reading through this thread and coming across the usual suspects of Williams' ass kissers. Those who apparently believe he understands the pitching prospects of other organizations better than they understand their own. Despite the fact we can't develop pitching prospects, and even those who do show promise (McCarthy) are delt. Edited December 23, 2006 by Flash Tizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 02:31 PM) I have to go with you on this one, I think Haeger is going to be the best knuckle baller in the bigs since the Niekro Bros. Better than Charlie Hough? Well, I'll hope you're right on that. Sure would be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 04:31 PM) I have to go with you on this one, I think Haeger is going to be the best knuckle baller in the bigs since the Niekro Bros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxHawk1980 Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 BTW, for everyone jumping off a ledge in regards to 07', do you really think there is going to be THAT much difference between what Brandon would have accomplished and what his replacement does? Brandon v. Charlie Haeger? I doubt the difference would be as large in wins and losses and many here would believe. I think the difference between McCarthy in 2007 vs. Haeger in 2007 is HUGE. Haeger is completely unproven in the majors. Haeger has had only the slightest taste of major league experience. We have NO IDEA if he can ever succeed in the majors. McCarthy is no ace, but he has had some major league success as a starting pitcher. There is real reason to believe he could continue to have at least a moderate level of success (see Garcia in 2006). Hager is a huge question mark. There is little reason to be comfortable with or confident in him...or Floyd....or Danks....or Gio. Our SP depth has gone for 6 in 2006 to 4 in 2007. Can you imagine how shaky this rotation will be if one of the SP's goes on the DL? *shudders* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 I just arrived home after 3 1/2 months in Europe. I want to go back to Europe to forget about this. Masset I like, Danks is not worth McCarthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 04:28 PM) I think it is pretty hard to defend KW so far this offseason. He has traded away major league talent for prospects when we are a potentially WS contending team. He has made the 2007 team worse so that the future can be brighter. (I know I am repeating this a lot, but it seems like some people simply refuse to believe this reality). My goal isn't to defend KW because he has and does make some boneheaded moves. I think that some of these young arms get packaged though and something happens with a multiplayer trade for a LF, CF or another SP. But much rather, I'm into calling out the posters here who claim undying love for a player yet s*** all over them when they are struggling in a game or during a season (see Garland, Crede, Count, et al.) and call for their trade/head/balls on a silver platter without seeing the blatant hypocricy in doing so. The knee-jerkism here also does not have the greatest track record (see Olivo's HOF bust for instance) so I always take it with more than a grain (more like a mine) of salt. 2007 is going to be interesting but there are still months before pitchers and catchers report so I'm not going to get too hot about it just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxgt Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 anyone know da website of da rangers forums or w/e wanna c what they think of this trade i highly doubt they gonna b pissed bout this trade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxHawk1980 Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 I have to go with you on this one, I think Haeger is going to be the best knuckle baller in the bigs since the Niekro Bros. Why do you think this? I'm not being critical of your comment at all; I'm just curious as to how you draw this conclusion. All I know about Haeger is his minor league stats and what I saw of him in the majors (which was obviously limited). Is it just his minor league success that leads you to this conclusion? I want to believe he will be great, but a lot of players have a good AAA season and never do more. I'm just curious if you have more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguy79 Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 I was very surprised by this move but am holding off over-reacting, want to see what else KW has planned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 Ed Farmer was just on the Score and said that the Sox were not happy about the home runs BMac was giving up, and they weren't as sold on him as they were before. That's about all I heard of the call though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 QUOTE(Reddy @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 04:31 PM) masset is on the 40, danks is not. Danks isn't even on the 40? Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 04:28 PM) Let's go Haeger! indeed. i think Chuck can hold down the 5th starter role just as well as McCarthy would've; except with more IP. 299 more to go Chuck. from KWs conference call, our BP is going to be NASTY! hopefully they'll all find the strike zone, apparently Sisco is going to be the long man out of the pen to work on all his pitches and eventually get back into the rotation. Sisco, Masset, Aardsma, MacDougal, Thornton, Jenks with Perez and Logan down on the farm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 QUOTE(TitoMB345 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 04:32 PM) I still think he was too uncomfortable coming out of the pen last year as well. I was expecting big things out of McCarthy, or atleast a big name in return for him. We didn't get that. I hope McCarthy's troubles in the bullpen taught us a lesson. No more transitioning minor league starters to long relievers in the bullpen. Williams inability to address the situation in 2006 stunted the growth of Brandon. With Guillen pushing our current starters, any long reliever is not going to find a sufficient amount of work. Haeger is an exception only because his durability as a knuckleballer will allow Guillen more options to use him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 04:38 PM) Why do you think this? I'm not being critical of your comment at all; I'm just curious as to how you draw this conclusion. All I know about Haeger is his minor league stats and what I saw of him in the majors (which was obviously limited). Is it just his minor league success that leads you to this conclusion? I want to believe he will be great, but a lot of players have a good AAA season and never do more. I'm just curious if you have more info. Hey if some people here can think that McCarthy in TX makes him the auto frontrunner for the CYA then he can have his dream about Haeger. I think that Haeger could be as productive as a McCarthy if given the opportunity simply because I don't expect a whole ton out of the 5th spot. However, you do have a quality point about only having 4 (5 if we assume that one of these AAA starters actually busts out) starters and possible DL stints causing havoc. However, I still really feel that the rest of the offseason will be addressed on these missing pieces because of KW's track record these past few seasons of addressing the issues that the team has had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyho7476 Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 QUOTE(chiguy79 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 04:39 PM) I was very surprised by this move but am holding off over-reacting, want to see what else KW has planned. I'm with you...something else is coming. Don't forget, Kenny had that 1AM meeting with Cashman. I bet Cashman said 'We'd love to have Crede, Broadway and DAnks'....now we can do it. Ok, that probably didn't happen. I'm just hoping that a big name player is coming for some of these pitchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnhillegas Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 We are all so worried about the 5th starter next year, but lets face it, Jose is going on the DL next year at some time....this 5th starter problem will quickly become a 4th and 5th starter problem. We better resign Arnie Munoz fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 QUOTE(beautox @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 04:42 PM) from KWs conference call, our BP is going to be NASTY! hopefully they'll all find the strike zone, apparently Sisco is going to be the long man out of the pen to work on all his pitches and eventually get back into the rotation. Sisco, Masset, Aardsma, MacDougal, Thornton, Jenks with Perez and Logan down on the farm. Another stupid decision. It'd make more sense to place Haeger in the bullpen as the long reliever and have Sisco in Charlotte. If your quotes are correct, they plan on leaving him in the rotation to work on devleopintg his pitchers for an upcoming spot in the rotation. Okay, but wouldn't it make MORE sense to put him in the minor leagues where he can do the same thing without the inconsistent workload? Nah, just stunt the growth of another starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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