McCarthy Traded to Texas

[southsideirish71]

But we have like seven people that could take that spot. Or there could be another trade. Or a FA?

 

7 people that you are sure that give the whitesox a good chance and still competing in the best division in baseball over Bmac.

 

What FAs are still out there, that arent either silly money or just bad.

[Balta1701]

But we have like seven people that could take that spot. Or there could be another trade. Or a FA?

Kenny Williams is not stupid enough to spend money on a starting pitcher in this Free Agent market, and I don't blame him one bit.

[spiderman]

You dont trade for Thome if you believe that 2005 was a one shot in the dark. You trade for a Thome because you think you can win it all again.

 

And they, from the way it's looking, are going to take a step back next season to remain competitive 3 years down the road - by that time, Thome, who was breaking down in the 2nd half of this past season, will be done.

 

Question for all those excited about Williams looking to load up on young pitching because he wants to have a good team in 2008 - why can't we, supposedly a big market team, just continue developing our own prospects, like McCarthy, Broadway, Haegar, Floyd, Gonzalez ?

 

I was fine with the Garcia trade - we had 6 starters, I wouldn't have resigned Freddy either, but Williams seems overly focusing on the future at the expense of the present when players like Buerhle/Thome/Dye are in their primes, and others, including Dye/possiblly Crede, won't be here much longer.

[EvilMonkey]

7 people that you are sure that give the whitesox a good chance and still competing in the best division in baseball over Bmac.

 

What FAs are still out there, that arent either silly money or just bad.

Come on, are you sure Brandon would make it? He had as mixed a bag as any of the others. Yes, he showed some good stuff, but he also sucked sometimes too. Bmac could be a big bust. Or, he could not.

[Frankensteiner]

To my eyes, if you're willing to back off the accelerator in 2007 by trading away McCarthy and going with Haeger/ST contest winner as your 5th starter, then you may as well take the added step and try to get someone to bite on Buehrle or Dye as well.

 

I would almost guarantee you the Dodgers would take a flyer on Dye for a pretty big deal right now, and they have the talent to make it work.

 

We could just be overvaluing our own players, but it seems as if our returns for Garcia and McCarthy should have been much better. McCarthy should have had more trade value than Dye and we didn't exactly end up with a "pretty big deal" in return.

[southsideirish71]

Come on, are you sure Brandon would make it? He had as mixed a bag as any of the others. Yes, he showed some good stuff, but he also sucked sometimes too. Bmac could be a big bust. Or, he could not.

 

 

Well to turn the comment back on you. Are you sure that Danks and et al are going to be as good as Bmac. Bmac has shown some flashes of brilliance at the major league level, dominating Boston in Fenway, and dominating Texas at the launchpad. That so far is more that Danks/Floyd et al have shown at all.

[Balta1701]

Come on, are you sure Brandon would make it? He had as mixed a bag as any of the others. Yes, he showed some good stuff, but he also sucked sometimes too. Bmac could be a big bust. Or, he could not.

I have more confidence, just from what I've seen, of Brandon becoming a quality top or near-top of the rotation starter than I do with any other pitching prospect in our organization right now.

[alk3kevin]

Fifth starter woes? Anyone remember 2005? El Duque gave us 130 downright bad innings. ERA+ of 87. McCarthy was slightly better, but it's not like we had five guys light the world on fire.

 

Granted, the other four peaked considerably that year, we only had 3 guys in the entire lineup that were above average offensively (using OPS+, I'll check their eqa later).

[southsideirish71]

Fifth starter woes? Anyone remember 2005? El Duque gave us 130 downright bad innings. ERA+ of 87. McCarthy was slightly better, but it's not like we had five guys light the world on fire.

 

Granted, the other four peaked considerably that year, we only had 3 guys in the entire lineup that were above average offensively (using OPS+, I'll check their eqa later).

 

Run the numbers on the Danny Wright/Felix Diaz/Arnie Munz/Jason Grilli hall of horrors. I bet their ERA+ would break your calculator.

[DABearSoX]

So we won't trade McCarthy for Crawford or Rocco, but we'll trade him for two pitching prospects from a terrible organization at developing pitchers?

 

What in the world is KW planning to do with our rotation in 2008?

 

 

I am speechless about this.....

 

Fathom said it best.....

 

Why do you trade a rotation ready prospect for someone 2 years away???

 

There are a lot of swears filling my head but as with soxtalk as a whole in the offseason I am just gonna stay away and see where were at in March...

[Balta1701]

Fifth starter woes? Anyone remember 2005? El Duque gave us 130 downright bad innings. ERA+ of 87. McCarthy was slightly better, but it's not like we had five guys light the world on fire.

 

Granted, the other four peaked considerably that year, we only had 3 guys in the entire lineup that were above average offensively (using OPS+, I'll check their eqa later).

But you know what else that 5th starter spot gave us, despite relatively bad numbers? A sh*t load of wins. 9 wins out of El Duque and 6 out of McCarthy by my count. That's 15 wins. Compared to the 0 we had from the 5th starter spot in 2003 through the first half of 2004.

 

El Duque had a ton of sh*tty games, and McCarthy had his fair share early in the season. But those 2 guys were key in helping the team pile up 99 wins. Between 2003-2005, they were the difference between an 85 win team and a 99 win team.

[alk3kevin]

But you know what else that 5th starter spot gave us, despite relatively bad numbers? A sh*t load of wins. 9 wins out of El Duque and 6 out of McCarthy by my count. That's 15 wins. Compared to the 0 we had from the 5th starter spot in 2003 through the first half of 2004.

 

El Duque had a ton of sh*tty games, and McCarthy had his fair share early in the season. But those 2 guys were key in helping the team pile up 99 wins. Between 2003-2005, they were the difference between an 85 win team and a 99 win team.

You can suck and still win games. I care a hell of a lot more about the quality of their innings pitched than how many games they won.

 

I completely understand what you're getting at Balta, it's just frustrating as hell to read these chicken littles compare some of the best prospects in baseball to Felix Diaz, Dan Wright, Arnie Munoz, Jason Grilli, etc.

[Heads22]

I'm finally home. While I'm unsure about the 5th spot, there were obviously differences between BMac and Ozzie or KW, and I'm excited to see Danks and the others.

[Balta1701]

You can suck and still win games. I care a hell of a lot more about the quality of their innings pitched than how many games they won.

 

I completely understand what you're getting at Balta, it's just frustrating as hell to read these chicken littles compare some of the best prospects in baseball to Felix Diaz, Dan Wright, Arnie Munoz, Jason Grilli, etc.

First of all, watch yourself on the insult towards people.

 

Secondly, I would have loved to get more quality innings out of El Duque as well. But it's simply hard for me to ignore the fact that he was one of those bi-modal type pitchers, either he was really good or really bad. Because he had enough really bad games, his overall numbers were really bad, but he also gave us a good share of really good games, which is why he wound up with 9 wins. McCarthy gave us some even better games on top of those.

 

Wins do mean something. They're a hard stat to evaluate, but they can be damn important. Especially for a team like the 2005 white sox, where the offense wasn't carrying the team at all, if a pitcher puts up fairly poor numbers and still wins 10 games, or 2 pitchers put up poor to decent numbers and still win 15 games, they're figuring out ways to get the job done.

[alk3kevin]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cg...p&year=2005

 

He did win some games when he was hot.

[Dam8610]

Danks split last season between Double-A Frisco and Triple-A Oklahoma, where he combined to go 9-9 with a 4.24 ERA in 27 games (26 starts). He has a career minor league record of 21-30 with a 4.20 ERA in 92 games (82 starts).

 

Question:

Did Danks pitch in pitcher friendly parks ???

 

I don't know about the AA park he was in, but I'm fairly sure most of he parks in the PCL are a hitter's wet dream.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But you know what else that 5th starter spot gave us, despite relatively bad numbers? A sh*t load of wins. 9 wins out of El Duque and 6 out of McCarthy by my count. That's 15 wins.

 

McCarthy won 3 games in 2005, one of which was on the last day of the season where he went 5 innings and the AAA Knights beat Cleveland after the Sox already won the division

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Give me Eric Bedard or Carl Crawford and im happy..

[southsideirish71]

You can suck and still win games. I care a hell of a lot more about the quality of their innings pitched than how many games they won.

 

I completely understand what you're getting at Balta, it's just frustrating as hell to read these chicken littles compare some of the best prospects in baseball to Felix Diaz, Dan Wright, Arnie Munoz, Jason Grilli, etc.

 

thanks for the insult Merry Christmas to you too.

 

You should read the comments. I was not comparing Danks to Diaz/Wright et al. Danks is a good prospect. We just traded our best prospect for theirs. Ours is ready for this year, theirs not so much.

We just gave ourself a hit for the 07 season. My comment on the Horror show of the 5th starter was in the comment that you made about how it really doesnt matter about that spot because of some ERA+ numbers from El Duque.

 

Give me Eric Bedard or Carl Crawford and im happy..

 

Eric Bedard is fantasy island time. If we could of turned any of our prospects into Bedard. I would be thrilled.

[Balance]

My $0.02....

 

I don't know what to think. I was very excited about Brandon getting his shot in the Sox' rotation this year; he seemed to have a lot of promise. But we haven't seen him for a lot of starts in a row. I honestly don't know exactly what we're giving up and exactly what we're getting.

 

I like the idea of being stocked with quality young pitching for the long term. And it seems to me that the main reason for the Sox not making the playoffs in '06 was the lack of quality pitching. It could be that KW isn't comfortable standing pat with the same rotation.

 

I still want to trust KW, and I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I just wish I could see a definite reason for this particular trade. I'm not baseball-savvy enough to see it, I guess.

[Heads22]

On a side note, who teh f*** is David Paisano?

[whitesoxin']

Back in July, was the near Soriano trade straight up for B-Mac? If so, I think I want to cry.

[knightni]

On a side note, who teh f*** is David Paisano?

 

Some 2006 rookie league guy the Sox got from Baltimore.

 

He's played decently in Venezuela this winter so far.

[Heads22]

Anyone think the Sox will use the acquisition of Danks as leverage in a future drafting of his little brother?

[Balance]

Back in July, was the near Soriano trade straight up for B-Mac? If so, I think I want to cry.

Well, it would have been Soriano for half a year, then....