McCarthy Traded to Texas

[SoxHawk1980]

FWIW, I was talking about Danks. I was never as high on Gio as most, but I'll acknowledge his worth.

If the fifth spot costs us this year, and its not the other guys in the rotation, I will eat part of my White Sox hat and take a picture.

A bad #5 starter can really hurt a team. It has hurt the Sox in the recent past. And these guys in the pool to be come #5 starter have very little major league experience and no major league success yet. Do you really think there is very little chance that the would combine to make up a bad #5 starter in 2007. It is anything but unlikely.

 

And, it is not at all uncommon for SP's to go on the DL. If/when that happens in 2007, then two of those guys will be in the rotation for some period of time. Do you think that lack of depth could hurt the Sox?

I think KW saw the chance to deal BMAC for one guy who has a higher ceiling than BMac as well as one of the top BP prospects (FWIW) in baseball. The other two guys in the deal will likely not amount to much.

I'm sure that's how KW saw it. That doesn't help the Sox at all this season. And THAT is the problem. As a GM, not everything is about the coming season. If you don't think you're in contention, then by all means work on the team's future. Feel free to make the current team worse to build on the future in those situations. But when you've got a legit chance to go to the WS, maybe that isn't the right time to trade a legit #3 SP for prospects that won't help you this year.

[dasox24]

so I'll trust his judgment on Floyd.

Don't worry, you're not alone in having faith in Floyd. I'm not sure what it is, but I just have this great feeling about Floyd surprising the hell out of everyone.

Well, Jason would know better than nearly anyone on this board, and let's just say I'd trust him on this one.

Not to be too repetitive, but yeah, it would be pretty smart to trust Jason on this one. He has his sources, and I'm sure if he says there's a good reason, then there is a good reason.

[SoxHawk1980]

Well, Jason would know better than nearly anyone on this board, and let's just say I'd trust him on this one.

EDIT: Wow, I'm trusting....

I consider trusting info when I get it. I haven't gotten any of this inside info yet. Until then, claims that it exist are worthless. Maybe this inside info is that JR is looking to trim the payroll this year (Garcia) and in the relatively near future (McCarthy) and that is what these trades are significantly about. If so, that doesn't make the deal any better. It just puts the blame on JR, not KW.

 

Again, my point is that we have no idea what this supposed information is, what its source is, how credible or reliable it is. So, it is basically nothing.

[Heads22]

A bad #5 starter can really hurt a team. It has hurt the Sox in the recent past. And these guys in the pool to be come #5 starter have very little major league experience and no major league success yet. Do you really think there is very little chance that the would combine to make up a bad #5 starter in 2007. It is anything but unlikely.

 

And, it is not at all uncommon for SP's to go on the DL. If/when that happens in 2007, then two of those guys will be in the rotation for some period of time. Do you think that lack of depth could hurt the Sox?

 

I'm sure that's how KW saw it. That doesn't help the Sox at all this season. And THAT is the problem. As a GM, not everything is about the coming season. If you don't think you're in contention, then by all means work on the team's future. Feel free to make the current team worse to build on the future in those situations. But when you've got a legit chance to go to the WS, maybe that isn't the right time to trade a legit #3 SP for prospects that won't help you this year.

 

BMac could have been the exact same injury risk. He's not exactly built Ford Tough.

 

Like I said before, I know what you're saying. I learned that I just feel better if I personally sit back and don't b**** about something I can't change. Then again, that would make this place useless....

 

I think KW is really worried about the future market for pitching, and doesn't want to have to pay 10+ million for a Gil Meche, so he's stocking up.

 

I consider trusting info when I get it. I haven't gotten any of this inside info yet. Until then, claims that it exist are worthless. Maybe this inside info is that JR is looking to trim the payroll this year (Garcia) and in the relatively near future (McCarthy) and that is what these trades are significantly about. If so, that doesn't make the deal any better. It just puts the blame on JR, not KW.

 

Again, my point is that we have no idea what this supposed information is, what its source is, how credible or reliable it is. So, it is basically nothing.

 

I won't go any further, but Jason's source is not Ozzie Guillen's mechanic's half sister.

[JDsDirtySox]

Just got back into town... have been thinking about this trade while driving in the car all day and night.

I absolutely love this trade. I really think Danks is gonna be special... but I think Masset will be a very solid pitcher as well.

 

oh by the way... I like the idea of Gavin Floyd on the Sox too.

Not a homer... just a fan of stockpiling stud young pitchers.

[SoxHawk1980]

BMac could have been the exact same injury risk. He's not exactly built Ford Tough.

It makes no sense to say that BMac has the same injury risk as a pitcher over 40 years of age like Contreras or with as many innings and pitches on their arms as Buehrle and Garland. All pitchers have injury risk, but those risks are not all equal.

Like I said before, I know what you're saying. I learned that I just feel better if I personally sit back and don't b**** about something I can't change. Then again, that would make this place useless....

I'm just calling it like I see it. I know the upside of this trade, and of the Garcia grade. But the upsides alone don't determine the value of the trade. I can't pretend that there isn't a downside too.

[dasox24]

I consider trusting info when I get it. I haven't gotten any of this inside info yet. Until then, claims that it exist are worthless. Maybe this inside info is that JR is looking to trim the payroll this year (Garcia) and in the relatively near future (McCarthy) and that is what these trades are significantly about. If so, that doesn't make the deal any better. It just puts the blame on JR, not KW.

 

Again, my point is that we have no idea what this supposed information is, what its source is, how credible or reliable it is. So, it is basically nothing.

Yeah, but when Jason says this, you should probably believe it. This is not just some random, little-known poster. When Jason says something about having inside info, he's telling the truth. I very very rarely have heard him use the "inside source" card, if ever.

 

Jeez, I don't mean to be kissing Jas' ass so much in this thread, but I just feel pretty strongly towards what Jason has to say.

[SoxHawk1980]

I won't go any further, but Jason's source is not Ozzie Guillen's mechanic's half sister.

I still don't know who the source is, how credible that source is or what the nature of the info is. Is the info about Danks, BMac or other things which might push the blame off of KW but don't affect how good the trade was for the Sox? or is the info about something else entirely? Without knowing some of these things, this inside info, which hasn't even been actually described in even the most general terms is essentially meaningless.

[CWSGuy406]

Can't, got people over....playing some call of duty online

 

You got 360?

 

If so, BOOO. HopeHop on Rainbow 6: Las Vegas and then we're talkin'...

Edited December 24, 2006 by CWSGuy406

[SoxHawk1980]

Yeah, but when Jason says this, you should probably believe it. This is not just some random, little-known poster. When Jason says something about having inside info, he's telling the truth. I very very rarely have heard him use the "inside source" card, if ever.

 

Jeez, I don't mean to be kissing Jas' ass so much in this thread, but I just feel pretty strongly towards what Jason has to say.

It isn't about not trusting Jason. He hasn't even said what the information is, much less whether it is believable/credible.

[Heads22]

It makes no sense to say that BMac has the same injury risk as a pitcher over 40 years of age like Contreras or with as many innings and pitches on their arms as Buehrle and Garland. All pitchers have injury risk, but those risks are not all equal.

 

I'm just calling it like I see it. I know the upside of this trade, and of the Garcia grade. But the upsides alone don't determine the value of the trade. I can't pretend that there isn't a downside too.

 

Then you can't think that Brandon won't be like Jeremy Reed, Miguel Olivo or any of the other top prospects we've traded away. The kid has still not been a full-time starter and you don't know if he can handle 200+ innings for the first time.

 

But, I gotta work tomorrow, so we'll pick this up later...

[SoxHawk1980]

Then you can't think that Brandon won't be like Jeremy Reed, Miguel Olivo or any of the other top prospects we've traded away. The kid has still not been a full-time starter and you don't know if he can handle 200+ innings for the first time.

 

But, I gotta work tomorrow, so we'll pick this up later...

Brandon could flame out, of course, but he's had much more major league success than both Olivo and Reed. McCarthy has actually shown something in the majors. There is real reason to believe he could be a reliable #3 starter in the majors. It isn't just scouts and fan optimism. It is scouts, optimsim and results on the field.

[bulokis]

I still dont like the idea of trading BMAC. What is all these inside info about?

 

But I found my way to deal with this, we can always trade for BMAC especially with texas seems to be in love with our farm system/players.

[dasox24]

It isn't about not trusting Jason. He hasn't even said what the information is, much less whether it is believable/credible.

Yeah, but I guess this is just me, but I don't have to know the exact info to believe that there's not a good reason for the trade. And, if there's a good reason for the trade, then I'm happy with it. Hell, I'm happy with it even if there isn't a good reason to have traded McCarthy besides getting great value in return.

[SoxHawk1980]

Yeah, but I guess this is just me, but I don't have to know the exact info to believe that there's not a good reason for the trade. And, if there's a good reason for the trade, then I'm happy with it. Hell, I'm happy with it even if there isn't a good reason to have traded McCarthy besides getting great value in return.

The info would have to be pretty huge to make this deal look like a good one.

 

This trade seriously hurts a WS contender. At this point, I wouldn't expect the Sox to win the AL Central, much less the WS. This team needed an upgrade. Instead, we have gotten an overall downgrade this offseason.

 

And the future looks bright, but pitching prospects have a particularly high failure rate. And by the time these guys are ready to actually be good at the major league level, will the good position players like Thome, Konerko and Dye still be playing for the Sox? Will they still be playing baseball at all? This is a big gamble for a still very uncertain future.

[Flash Tizzle]

Yeah, but when Jason says this, you should probably believe it. This is not just some random, little-known poster. When Jason says something about having inside info, he's telling the truth. I very very rarely have heard him use the "inside source" card, if ever.

 

Jeez, I don't mean to be kissing Jas' ass so much in this thread, but I just feel pretty strongly towards what Jason has to say.

I'm not one to question Chisoxfn or Heads, but it's bordering on torture to claim inside knowledge, tease us fans who believe this trade was unnecessary, then refuse to tell.

[SoxHawk1980]

I'm not one to question Chisoxfn or Heads, but it's bordering on torture to claim inside knowledge, tease us fans who believe this trade was unnecessary, then refuse to tell.

And it is Chisoxfn's interpretation of the meaning of this information that leads him to say that this trade was a good one. Would the rest of us interpret the information that way? If the info is that Brandon has a torn rotator cuff, then that would be one thing. But if the info is that the Sox scouts see something particularly great in Danks, then that is another thing entirely. Or is it about JR and the payroll (in the near future)? Or is it something else ambiguous? We really have no idea what this "information" tells us about how good this trade is.

[The Ginger Kid]

I'd like the trade better if I had more faith in the sox brain trust to identify quality prospects without confusing them with what turns out to be very mediocre material.

 

The bullpen certainly has the potential to be very, very good. Feels like they need a veteran in there however, someone to show the way and develop the identity. We'll see.

 

Weird winter so far. Makes no sense to keep Buehrle at this point when they obviously have no intention of re-signing him.

[SoxFan1]

I'd like the trade better if I had more faith in the sox brain trust to identify quality prospects without confusing them with what turns out to be very mediocre material.

 

The bullpen certainly has the potential to be very, very good. Feels like they need a veteran in there however, someone to show the way and develop the identity. We'll see.

 

Weird winter so far. Makes no sense to keep Buehrle at this point when they obviously have no intention of re-signing him.

What do the Cardinals have that we could use?

[The Beast]

Am I wrong to believe that this could only mean us signing Mulder, Zito or Suppan? Just throwing it out there, I don't know what Kenny's intentions are after all of these trades he's made.

 

Also raises up a few questions in my mind:

 

What is Crede's situation this year?

 

Will we talk to Tampa Bay about Bodelli or Crawford?

[Flash Tizzle]

Am I wrong to believe that this could only mean us signing Mulder, Zito or Suppan? Just throwing it out there, I don't know what Kenny's intentions are after all of these trades he's made.

 

Also raises up a few questions in my mind:

 

What is Crede's situation this year?

 

Will we talk to Tampa Bay about Bodelli or Crawford?

Answer to all your questions:

 

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM BEASTLY.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

And it is Chisoxfn's interpretation of the meaning of this information that leads him to say that this trade was a good one. Would the rest of us interpret the information that way? If the info is that Brandon has a torn rotator cuff, then that would be one thing. But if the info is that the Sox scouts see something particularly great in Danks, then that is another thing entirely. Or is it about JR and the payroll (in the near future)? Or is it something else ambiguous? We really have no idea what this "information" tells us about how good this trade is.

 

Don't know if this is the "inside information" in question or not, but I found this interesting:

 

Danks might also be a better fit for pitching coach Don Cooper. It is Cooper who would have been the key to McCarthy’s development, who could have gotten him away from the bad habits that led to all those longballs, but one senses that the White Sox viewed McCarthy as stubborn, perhaps to the point of being uncoachable. They also don’t run the risk of upsetting Danks if he starts the year in Triple-A, which should produce a genuine competition in spring training between Danks, Gavin Floyd, Charlie Haeger, and perhaps even Lance Broadway.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=116

Edited December 24, 2006 by South Side Fireworks Man

[greg775]

I just couldn't read all the posts, but enjoyed the first five pages.

 

Wow.

My take is obviously the Sox think BMac and Anderson are pussies.

Look for Anderson to be the next to be replaced.

I wouldn't completely blame Ozzie, but he obviously doesn't like either player.

I sure wish we'd get immediate help for somebody like BMac instead of the dreaded

young unknown prospects.

 

It's obvious Anderson won't be our cf this year either.

The Sox hate BMac and Anderson.

 

We will win 90 games tops probably more like 10 over .500 max.

Oh well...

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 24, 2006 -> 12:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One unproven rookie who has never had major league success. We went from 6 legitimate, quality major league SP's in 2006 to 4 in 2007. So, we have a big hole in one rotation spot and no depth. What if a SP goes on the DL (not exactly a remote possibility)? Then our rotation and our team is in serious sh*t.

 

 

 

So we have a "big hole" at the 5th and 6th SP spot hey? Doesn't sound too drastic to me. Not to mention we just got 4 potentially better SPs than McCarthy has the potential to be, plus Haeger seems as good as a 5th starter as McCarthy could have been and possibly better. With 3 trades KW has give the White Sox potentially the best young pitching staff in all of baseball and a ton of lefties. Look at this young pitching now? Floyd, Gio Gonzo, Danks, Masset, Sisco to go wtih youngsters Broadway, Haeger and even Garland. That is a ton of pitching. That is a hell of a job by KW and I can see us having enough to give up to get Carl Crawford and still keeping enough around for our own staff to use. Could this be what this trading is potentially about? Getting Carl Crawford?

[GoodAsGould]

As much as I lived B-Mac and wanted to see him suceed as a whitesox.... im sooooo ecstatic about landing Danks. My best baseball friend is a huge Rangers fan and ive always heard him rave about their pitching prospects.. Hurley, Danks, Diamond, Volquez, and as of late Massett. And of them all I always liked Dank the best although Hurley prob has more upside. Im so glad we didnt get Diamond who i dont think high of or Volquez who has great stuff but simply doesnt know how to pitch.

 

Also ive heard ton of great thigns about Masset since him going to the bp.... our bullpen is going to be wicked sick for a long time now.

 

 

 

Although, im a little bit concerned about that 5th spot now and im concerned about what this means for Buehrle. I kind of hope we make a push for Mulder who at the very least can hold down that last spot and at best can give us an ace like performance.