gsoxs1 Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 If you compare there stats W L ERA G GS CG SHO INN H R ER HR BB SO Zito 102 63 3.55 222 222 9 4 1430.1 1228 620 564 148 560 1096 Buehrle 97 66 3.83 229 204 19 6 1428.0 1473 684 607 165 328 828 They have similiar stats. Both have had down years. Zito in 2004 and Mark this past year. Zito has a Cy young. Buehrle has a WS ring. Both being Lefties and similiar in age, I assume once Buehrle becomes a FA he is going to command over 120 million dollars. We all know that the Sox won't pony up the cash. And yes I think it is ridculous the amount of money Zito recieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 I see Buehrle getting a Carlos Lee contract, somewhere along the lines of 6 years 100 mil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 He's better than Zito, but due to his off year, I'd say Buehrle is worth about $15-17 million a year. Because he obviously isn't worth that type of money, I think the best plan of action would be to try and get Mark to accept arbitration in 08 to give time for a replacement in the farm system. A "good" pitcher like Zito getting $18 million a year is just one more sign that baseball needs a salary cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Dec 28, 2006 -> 12:37 PM) I think the best plan of action would be to try and get Mark to accept arbitration in 08 to give time for a replacement in the farm system. What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Even though I'm his biggest supporter, we need to offer Buehrle a fair extension right now, if he doesn't want to sign it, start working the phones for the highest bidder. Maybe we can pry Pelfrey and Milledge from the Mets if they are desperate enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsoxs1 Posted December 28, 2006 Author Share Posted December 28, 2006 A "good" pitcher like Zito getting $18 million a year is just one more sign that baseball needs a salary cap. I totally agree with that. It is ludicraist the dollar amount of some of these contracts. Even though I'm his biggest supporter, we need to offer Buehrle a fair extension right now, A fair extension would have to be over 100 million becuase that's what the market is. I don't see the Sox EVER doing such a thing espically given thier history with pitchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 28, 2006 -> 01:42 PM) What? It's fairly obvious that KW is letting the market affect him in such a way where he's going to let probably 3/4ths of Contreras, Garland, Buehrle and Vazquez walk. If KW is going to do this, and I think he will unless the market corrects itself, which it certainly won't do next year, he's going to need time for an in-house replacement to develop. Thus you hope Buehrle accepts arbitration in 08 or you trade him now for prospects. If he's going to be worth $17-$18 million, the trade negotiations start at Humber, Pelfrey and Milledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 That contract Zito got really worries me. I like Mark, but I wouldn't pay him more than $14 mil a year. This is a tough spot now. We just can't give him that kind of massive extension after what he did last year, and Mark would be stupid to take something like 4-48 right now. We can't really wait until the end of the year to negotiate either, because no matter what kind of year he has he'll end up getting a big offer on the market and we'd probably lose him for nothing more than draft picks (assuming they even still do compensation by then). I think the only route they can go is to try to sign him to a reasonable deal for the next few weeks. If that doesn't work, I think you almost have to trade him, especially if they could get a good package from the Mets. Minaya will be getting desperate and might do something stupid... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(gsoxs1 @ Dec 28, 2006 -> 01:52 PM) I totally agree with that. It is ludicraist the dollar amount of some of these contracts. A fair extension would have to be over 100 million becuase that's what the market is. I don't see the Sox EVER doing such a thing espically given thier history with pitchers. Fans could not be disappointed at the organization if Buehrle was offered a long term deal for 6 years and around 80 million, turned it down and then was dealt. I know I would not be. A fair deal doesn't mean pay market value to me, it means make the guy a deal that will set his family up for life and is fair to both parties involved. In this case, I think that's what we need to do, as hard as it is for me to admit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Dec 28, 2006 -> 12:54 PM) It's fairly obvious that KW is letting the market affect him in such a way where he's going to let probably 3/4ths of Contreras, Garland, Buehrle and Vazquez walk. If KW is going to do this, and I think he will unless the market corrects itself, which it certainly won't do next year, he's going to need time for an in-house replacement to develop. Thus you hope Buehrle accepts arbitration in 08 or you trade him now for prospects. If he's going to be worth $17-$18 million, the trade negotiations start at Humber, Pelfrey and Milledge. What are you talking about? Arbitration? We've already bought out his arbitrartion years. He's got the right to be a FA after 07'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 28, 2006 -> 01:57 PM) What are you talking about? Arbitration? We've already bought out his arbitrartion years. He's got the right to be a FA after 07'. You can still offer a player arbitration and he has the chance to accept it. Otherwise, he files for free agency and is free to negotiate with any team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 28, 2006 -> 12:57 PM) What are you talking about? Arbitration? We've already bought out his arbitrartion years. He's got the right to be a FA after 07'. We bought up his FORCED aribtration years. Once a play hits his FA years, we can still offer arbit, but most likely he will decline it and go to the highest bidder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Ahh, thanks for straightening me out there...I failed to recall that. The point is moot. He would not accept arbitration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 28, 2006 -> 02:03 PM) The point is moot. He would not accept arbitration. No it's not. You judge the worth of the two first round draft picks versus the prospects you'd get from a trade partner. If teams are lowballing you and not willing to give up the amount of prospects you deem right, you try your luck in arbitration and then possibly the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxHawk1980 Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Even though I'm his biggest supporter, we need to offer Buehrle a fair extension right now, if he doesn't want to sign it, start working the phones for the highest bidder. Maybe we can pry Pelfrey and Milledge from the Mets if they are desperate enough. First if all KW could get for Garcia is Gio and Floyd, then he I don't think he'll be able to get Pelfrey and Milledge for Buehrle. Second, that would be a give up on the 2007 season. I think it is a bit too early to white flag the 2007 season. And I can't imagine why anyone would be in favor of tanking a season where you know you'll be in contention in favor of maybe contending in future seasons. I say "maybe" because we would be banking on prospects and prospects are iffy by their very nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan79 Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 If Zito got this much I think Johan Santana can get close 22-24 million a year whenever he becomes a free agent. I don't know the numbers be Santana could be the biggest bargain in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Dec 28, 2006 -> 01:06 PM) No it's not. You judge the worth of the two first round draft picks versus the prospects you'd get from a trade partner. If teams are lowballing you and not willing to give up the amount of prospects you deem right, you try your luck in arbitration and then possibly the draft. Oh, I see what you are saying. It was my impression that you were claiming we would offer arbitration in the hopes that he would ultimately accept it. Of course I think it is a given that we would offer arbitration in that sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 28, 2006 -> 02:13 PM) First if all KW could get for Garcia is Gio and Floyd, then he I don't think he'll be able to get Pelfrey and Milledge for Buehrle. Second, that would be a give up on the 2007 season. I think it is a bit too early to white flag the 2007 season. And I can't imagine why anyone would be in favor of tanking a season where you know you'll be in contention in favor of maybe contending in future seasons. I say "maybe" because we would be banking on prospects and prospects are iffy by their very nature. Garcia is older than Buehrle, has more wear and tear on his arm and isn't as good of a pitcher. I'm fairly certain we could get two top tier prospects for Buehrle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(aboz56 @ Dec 28, 2006 -> 01:21 PM) Garcia is older than Buehrle, has more wear and tear on his arm and isn't as good of a pitcher. I'm fairly certain we could get two top tier prospects for Buehrle. Not to mention that whole lefty thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Buehrle is one gone motherf***er. Put him on the market, get what you can for him and hope for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Well, instead of speculating about what we would get for Mark if we dealt him right now, let's assume it would fall somewhere in between what Freddy and McCarthy netted us. Is that something we are ready to accept? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 I'll tell you what Buehrle is NOT worth. He isn't worth 36 John Danks'. That is what we are talking about here, dinancially, at 18M/yr. 36 Danks/B-Mac types. The market for pitchers is so absurdly top-heavy at this point its a joke. I'm really starting to see KW's logic. Much as I like Buerhle, if you can get 3 top tier young pitchers for him just at the cusp of ML play (or 2 pitchers and a couple very high level positional prospects), I say do it. And use the money to get us the best leftfielder money can buy. And after all of that, we'd STILL have money to burn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 I still don't prefer trading him before the season starts. In a sense it would be a White Flag deal for the 2007 campaign and could really look bad for the organization. This is a pivotal year for us to get back into the playoffs (Thome isn't getting any younger, Dye will be a FA and Crede's future is uncertain) and I don't see us doing it by trading away two veterans like Garcia and Buehrle. Tough spot for KW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyho7476 Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(aboz56 @ Dec 28, 2006 -> 01:32 PM) I still don't prefer trading him before the season starts. In a sense it would be a White Flag deal for the 2007 campaign and could really look bad for the organization. This is a pivotal year for us to get back into the playoffs and I don't see us doing it by trading away two veterans like Garcia and Buehrle. Tough spot for KW. Big time tough spot. These contracts are just f***ing ridiculous. All this money to play baseball. Its mind-blowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 28, 2006 -> 01:24 PM) To add to that, while I think Mark does in fact want to go to St.Louis, and I don't think it's out of the question for him to sign a deal with the team he goes to, especially with a team like the Mets. While NY did lose out on Zito, it's clear they are willing to spend big money to get players. I don't think it's out of the question for Mark to just be a rental to a team. The Mets refused, flat-out, to give Zito more than Oswalt got. I would imagine them to feel the same about Buehrle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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