The Mets Discussion Thread

[Balta1701]

I should add, I wouldn't be shocked if the deal turned out to be something like: Pelfrey, Perez, Milledge. Kenny gets another very good arm that hasn't had success lately in the majors (Perez) and than two very toolsy highly touted guys.

Given the wasteland that is the Mets starting rotation, I can't imagine them giving up a guy like Perez as well, simply because they have no one to take his spot. They'd need to get 2 starters back for that to make sense for them. Going into next season with Glavine, Buehrle/Javy, El Duque, Maine, and Humber as their top 5 is almost as bad as what they have now.

[CWSOX45]

From what I have heard, Minaya is done talking with Kenny Williams. It has already been written that Minaya is talking to Beane about Harden. Minaya is offering Pelfrey and Milledge. The Mets are also interested in Bartolo Colon and Dontrelle Willis. As far as Oliver Perez goes, the Mets were very satisfied for his gutsy game 7 start. He still was very solid that start despite the horrendous year he had.

 

I do expect the Mets to make a move for a starting pitcher, Jose Lima is not the answer. Things could get interesting.

[RockRaines]

One of the best pitching prospects in baseball and armed with 95-mph heat, Pelfrey should get a chance to earn a rotation spot with the Mets out of spring training. At 22 and entering just his second pro season, though, he likely needs some time in Triple-A. He shouldn't stay there long and will be a rookie of the year candidate for a Mets club that will contend and score ample runs for him. Until he gets command of his secondary pitches (now a hard slider instead of a curve), he will be a middle of the road Fantasy starter.

[fathom]

I just don't buy what Omar is selling. I'm really not sure what the opinion of Minaya is, but I think he has turned into a very solid GM, and put together a nice club over in Flushing. He has however seemed to ignore the rotation, and it's coming back to haunt him. We all know about windows, and the time a club has, and the Mets seem to be right in the middle of their window, and Omar knows it. I really can't imagine he is going to let a core of Wright-Reyes-Beltran-Delgado go to waste just because he doesnt want to part with some of the farm.

 

Kenny needs to be on the phone, now.

 

Like we agreed upon yesterday, this Mets scenario just infuriates me right now. KW should have waited to make any McCarthy deal until he saw where Zito was going.

[gosox41]

Like we agreed upon yesterday, this Mets scenario just infuriates me right now. KW should have waited to make any McCarthy deal until he saw where Zito was going.

 

 

I thought the same thing. How does Pelfrey rank vs Danks?

 

 

Bob

[fathom]

I thought the same thing. How does Pelfrey rank vs Danks?

Bob

 

Pelfrey is thought of as being better. My sources at BA tell me that they think highly of Danks, but they think the Rangers did a magnificient job of trading Masset at his peak value. They don't think he's going to have a good MLB career.

[DBAHO]

Pelfrey and Milledge would be the minimum I'd ask for with one of our starters.

 

And then like I said in another thread, that opens up the possibility of trading BA or Podsednik for more young pitching (although with Pods, good luck at getting something decent).

[fathom]

Pelfrey and Milledge would be the minimum I'd ask for with one of our starters.

 

No offense, but we don't have anyone that could get that package. We've seen what we've gotten for our pitchers this offseason, and that package isn't even on the same planet as what we've gotten.

[Balta1701]

No offense, but we don't have anyone that could get that package. We've seen what we've gotten for our pitchers this offseason, and that package isn't even on the same planet as what we've gotten.

Hypothetically, if we're willing to sacrifice making this team worse by another step next year, shouldn't the price other teams have to pay increase more with each step?

[SoxFan1]

No offense, but we don't have anyone that could get that package. We've seen what we've gotten for our pitchers this offseason, and that package isn't even on the same planet as what we've gotten.

Contreras and Garland aren't necessarily worth that package, but the market value, combined with the talent of either of our starters, makes that package feasible. How quickly we forget that had Contreras stayed healthy all season long, he would have been the AL Cy Young...no doubt.

 

Hypothetically, if we're willing to sacrifice making this team worse by another step next year, shouldn't the price other teams have to pay increase more with each step?

This as well.

[DBAHO]

No offense, but we don't have anyone that could get that package. We've seen what we've gotten for our pitchers this offseason, and that package isn't even on the same planet as what we've gotten.

ATM we're not out there to make a deal for the sake of making a deal. We're only going to make a deal if it suits us.

 

Besides I don't think from Minaya's perspective trading those 2 for a Bartolo Colon or Rich Haren is a great idea when you consider their current injury problems. At least the Sox's SP's have a history of staying healthy.

[beautox]

 

 

lolz

[beautox]

I should add, I wouldn't be shocked if the deal turned out to be something like: Pelfrey, Perez, Milledge. Kenny gets another very good arm that hasn't had success lately in the majors (Perez) and than two very toolsy highly touted guys.

 

Thats if we are even interested in making another deal and I really have no idea if Kenny is (unless of course someone knocks his Sox off). As such if we made any deal I think we'd have to sign one of these pitchers on teh market to an expensive 1 year deal just to have them in there to eat innings (the Weaver type) or of course find a way to acquire Earvin Santana to plug into our rotation (obviously that means Crede goes and would open up a void in our lineup).

 

It would be crazy to imagine us making that many changes in one year, but given Kenny's history I wouldn't be shocked.

 

I wouldn't be against rebuilding if we're getting a great return.

 

I think Josh is ML ready, and his defense is underrated.

 

Name                     P  Age   AVG   OBP   SLG   G  AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI  BB   K SB CS

Josh Fields              3b  24  .262  .336  .445 132 461  79 121 28  1 18  69  50 127 13  5 

07 ZIPS

 

As for Perez i doubt we would get him if we get Pelfrey and Milledge, but i could see him thrown in if we get Humber instead.

 

I've always liked Oliver he was rushed through the SD system and his problem is he doesn't repeat his mechanics consistently, he no longer sits at 95+ but 92-94 isn't out of the question, i think he could still turn it around in the right organization, he's also a Boras client, but with KW going after Danks apparently that isn't an issue anymore.

 

Santana is nice, but if were dealing with the angels i would rather take one of their many SS off there hands along with Reggie Willits. I highly doubt Wood could be had but i think Sean Rodriguez or Erick Aybar could be.

 

Also with theoretically dealing Javy to the mets, i think our team could still be a contender. That would give Haeger and Floyd the keys to the rotation, Broadway and Danks should be ready Mid 07, if one or both of them struggle. I just depends on what the organization thinks of Floyd and Haeger, personally i think Chuck is going to turn alot of heads. I remain optimistic with Gavin, Carpenter and Halladay were late bloomers, and Coop saying he was going to battle with McCarthy during ST for the 5th spot, makes me think he sees something the Phillies didn't.

[beautox]

"Minaya has been sweet-talking Beane in recent weeks. Give him credit for at least trying. The two spoke 10 days ago, when Minaya again tried to persuade the A's to take Aaron Heilman and Lastings Milledge for Harden. Beane wouldn't budge. By telephone Thursday, the GM said, "We have some personnel here that would be difficult for us to consider moving." In not so many words, Beane told the Mets it would take Milledge, Philip Humber or Mike Pelfrey and Carlos Gomez, a 20-year-old can't-miss prospect, to complete a deal for Harden or even Dan Haren."

link

[witesoxfan]

I wouldn't be against rebuilding if we're getting a great return.

 

You CANNOT (completely) rebuild after the year the Sox had last year. It doesn't make sense from ANY standpoint. The Sox won 90 games with a lineup that had 3 players with OPS's under .700, a mediocre bullpen, and a rotation that was bad after May. There will be some regression within the lineup, likely from Dye, Thome, and Crede (though Crede is also swinging upwards offensively, and he could be looking at an .850-.875 OPS year), but there I see it as quite likely that there will be progression throughout the lineup too, with Uribe, Podsednik, Anderson, and others could be primed for better years as well. That's all obvious s***, but you also must figure that the AL Central will be a little weaker next year. I see 4 teams with the capability of being over .500, but I don't see a 95 win team in the bunch. From what I figure, 92 wins probably wins the division, and perhaps it could be somewhere around 88-90.

 

However, while the AL Central might be weaker in '07, that's not really the main reason why a (complete) rebuilding is essentially impossible. The real reason is attendance. People came out in droves this past year, and "rewarding" them the following season with a team full of mediocrity and inconsistency would be a swift kick in the groin to the entire fan base.

[DBAHO]

link

Interesting that.

 

If the A's are asking for Pelfrey, Milledge and Gomez for Haren for example, if we asked for just Milledge and Pelfrey for either Buehrle, Garland or Vazquez, then maybe something could get done there after all.

 

Either way the longer the Mets wait, the more desperate they'll be to acquire a veteran SP in my mind.

[RockRaines]

No offense, but we don't have anyone that could get that package. We've seen what we've gotten for our pitchers this offseason, and that package isn't even on the same planet as what we've gotten.

We havent really traded anyone close to the planet of Buehrle.

[knightni]

I could see Gomez going to the Yankees for Pavano.

[striker]

You CANNOT (completely) rebuild after the year the Sox had last year. It doesn't make sense from ANY standpoint. The Sox won 90 games with a lineup that had 3 players with OPS's under .700, a mediocre bullpen, and a rotation that was bad after May. There will be some regression within the lineup, likely from Dye, Thome, and Crede (though Crede is also swinging upwards offensively, and he could be looking at an .850-.875 OPS year), but there I see it as quite likely that there will be progression throughout the lineup too, with Uribe, Podsednik, Anderson, and others could be primed for better years as well. That's all obvious s***, but you also must figure that the AL Central will be a little weaker next year. I see 4 teams with the capability of being over .500, but I don't see a 95 win team in the bunch. From what I figure, 92 wins probably wins the division, and perhaps it could be somewhere around 88-90.

 

However, while the AL Central might be weaker in '07, that's not really the main reason why a (complete) rebuilding is essentially impossible. The real reason is attendance. People came out in droves this past year, and "rewarding" them the following season with a team full of mediocrity and inconsistency would be a swift kick in the groin to the entire fan base.

 

We trade Neal Cotts, Freddy Garcia, Brandon McCarthy and Ross Gload and we are rebuilding? Two relievers, a starter and bench warmer? Give me break.

[DBAHO]

I could see Gomez going to the Yankees for Pavano.

Would the Yankees be willing to help the Mets possibly fill a major need though?

 

I'd think they'd look elsewhere 1st to see if there were any better offers.

[Gregory Pratt]

I would hope that no team is dumb enough to take on Pavano. He'll never pitch for them anyway.

[Balta1701]

Interesting that.

 

If the A's are asking for Pelfrey, Milledge and Gomez for Haren for example, if we asked for just Milledge and Pelfrey for either Buehrle, Garland or Vazquez, then maybe something could get done there after all.

 

Either way the longer the Mets wait, the more desperate they'll be to acquire a veteran SP in my mind.

Man, I can understand the A's asking that much for Harden, even given his health history he does have ace-stuff, but asking that much for Dan Haren, who certainly doesn't strike me as a #1 pitcher in the same way Harden could be...ouch.

 

If we can't move in on this situation, there's something really wrong. I'm not a huge fan of giving both Floyd and Haeger starting spots on opening day next year, but having a combination of Pelfrey/Humber, Danks, and Broadway sitting there ready to take the spot of whichever one of them struggles after 2 months certainly would be a nice place to be sitting. Especially if we have Milledge tossed into our OF.

[Balta1701]

You have to think about the casual fan. There are way more of them then guys(and girls) that roam these message boards that can be considered "die-hards"

Casual fans will respond more to winning games than they will to holding onto specific players. In 2003 if I recall correctly, the casual fans wanted Paul Konerko sent back to AAA and Mark Buehrle crucified for going after the fans who were booing him.

[Kalapse]

Except to alot of people, it is. Wite is 100% right. I drove down to Grandstand today, and on the way I made the mistake of listening to White Sox Weekly or whatever it's called. I don't want to come off as a White Sox snob, but holy s*** people are dumb. Half the calls were about how JR should sell the team, he is too cheap, the payroll sucks and he closed "the window" too soon. Imagine if they were to trade Buerhle...

You have to think about the casual fan. There are way more of them then guys(and girls) that roam these message boards that can be considered "die-hards"

I caught a few minutes of that trash on my way to work this morning, I was embarrassed to be a Sox fan honestly. I love the fans that b**** about cutting payroll saying that JR has and always will be a cheap bastard, these are the same people who have no clue where the Sox finished in total team payroll last season (#4, right behind LAA.) Rongey is bad enough on his own but when you mix in a good amount of baseball retards it gets to the point where I want to rip my stereo out of my f***ing car and chuck it out the window. According to one caller the White Sox payroll next season will be closer to the Royals' than the Mets' because Reinsdorf hates the fans. The Sox had a higher team payroll than the Mets last year by the way.

 

I still don't understand the absolute obsession with the magical 'PAYROLL NUMBER'. All these 'fans' want the Sox to spend $120M next year and add on every year after that, I don't give a s*** how much the team spends just as long as money doesn't get in the way of keeping this team in WS contention I'm happy. Why spend money just to spend money? Seems a bit pointless to me.

 

I'm convinced that if Buehrle is dealt JR/KW will have attempts made on their lives.

[Kalapse]

I wanted to pull my hair out with the call about the payroll and the Royals, and even Rongey gave him the $104 number, and he came back about the money we get back from Javy and Thome. How these dolts get on the air is beyond me.

That was pretty funny actually, Rongey told him the Sox' payroll was at $104 then he countered by saying with the money from Arizona ($2M but he doesn't know that) and the money from Philly ($5.5M but he doesn't know that either) the Sox payroll is about $85M which is incorrect. Though $85M is quite respectable and closer to the mets than the Royals, the payroll would actually be $96.5M when factoring in Thome/Javy money.