The Mets Discussion Thread

[Balta1701]

I'm convinced that if Buehrle is dealt JR/KW will have attempts made on their lives.

If the team comes out and wins, all the complaints will vanish.

[Kalapse]

If the team comes out and wins, all the complaints will vanish.

That won't keep people from sending JR death threats up until April 2nd.

[Balta1701]

While I believe that to be true, they are going to really have to kick some ass to get some fans back. It was amazing to hear some of these people on the radio, and it's truly scary how much effect people in the media have over the casual fan. Marriotti can write how the Sox are being cheap, and suddenly Sox fans get out the razor blades.

 

I have brought it up a few times, and I hate doing it, but when an uneducated baseball fan sees the Cubs spending hundreds of millions on personal, and they see a White Sox club getting rid of big contracts for prospects, the Cubs are going to win out in the battle for the fans.

Now I make it seems like the Sox are going to draw 700,000 people this year or something, which won't be the case at all. However, the White Sox imagine has been hurt this off-season, and Williams and Co. better be careful. (I'm also not saying the moves they have made have been the wrong ones, I'm just saying to the casual fan, they don't come off well)

The remarkable thing about casual fans though is that they actually are...casual fans. In other words, yes, its easy to lose them if the team stinks for a while, but they don't get too attached to people. Casual fans weren't screaming or crying or sending goodbye emails to Brandon McCarthy when he was dealt. Casual fans know and love Mark Buehrle because he was on a 99 win team in 2005, and Casual fans also rapidly forgot the 2-10 start or whatever record it was when Buehrle opened up 2003.

 

You can't worry about losing a casual fan because the Cubs spend more money and you trade away a few fan favorites. The Casual fans were outraged when Carlos Lee and Magglio Ordonez left in a single offseason (My God, how will we ever win games!). But then the Sox went wire-to-wire, and suddenly the casual fan went from being angry over Ordonez to helping vote Podsednik onto the All Star team.

 

Just win games. It is the only thing that will ever matter in terms of a casual fanbase. In fact, it's the only way to turn them into permanent fans.

[beautox]

You CANNOT (completely) rebuild after the year the Sox had last year. It doesn't make sense from ANY standpoint. The Sox won 90 games with a lineup that had 3 players with OPS's under .700, a mediocre bullpen, and a rotation that was bad after May. There will be some regression within the lineup, likely from Dye, Thome, and Crede (though Crede is also swinging upwards offensively, and he could be looking at an .850-.875 OPS year), but there I see it as quite likely that there will be progression throughout the lineup too, with Uribe, Podsednik, Anderson, and others could be primed for better years as well. That's all obvious s***, but you also must figure that the AL Central will be a little weaker next year. I see 4 teams with the capability of being over .500, but I don't see a 95 win team in the bunch. From what I figure, 92 wins, probably wins the division, and perhaps it could be somewhere around 88-90.

 

However, while the AL Central might be weaker in '07, that's not really the main reason why a (complete) rebuilding is essentially impossible. The real reason is attendance. People came out in droves this past year, and "rewarding" them the following season with a team full of mediocrity and inconsistency would be a swift kick in the groin to the entire fan base.

 

We trade Neal Cotts, Freddy Garcia, Brandon McCarthy and Ross Gload and we are rebuilding? Two relievers, a starter and bench warmer? Give me break.

 

I expect Thome and Dye will regress, and i said if were getting the right return i wouldn't be against rebuilding. Fields is ML ready and i think Sweeney could put up a respectable season this year, hes a year past his wrist surgery and hes just going to get seasoning down at AAA.

 

I didn't say we were rebuilding, i was simply saying that if we were to get a great return for MB(Wainwright/Reyes & Anderson), Crede(Brandon Wood/Sean Rodriguez/Erick Aybar and Willits), Podsednik(a bag of balls) and Dye then send them packing and look to contend for 08 and beyond.

[beck72]

I don't think MB, Javy, Jon or Jose will be moved. Taking KW at his word that the sox won't hurt their chances to win in 07--which trading one of the remaining SP's would, no doubt [even for a Pelfrey, as these guys all have shown they can dominate major league hitters and throw 200 innings], the sox are a 90 win team that can contend as is. They don't have the pressure to unload big contracts. And have gotten more high quality, young depth with the trades they've made. They are also set for the future, and the present.

 

The casual fan will follow a winner. And go to a park they have a good time in. I'm willing to bet some casual fans went to the cell because the sox won the series, people who had gone to their fair share of Cub games. And after attending some games at the cell, having a good time, able to park and get tickets, will also come back in 2007. These people aren't and won't be affected by the trades the sox have made.

 

The "die hards" [like on White Sox weekly, who made me wince with their comments] are the ones moaning and groaning that the sox are "white-flagging" it [They aren't the newbies but guys and gals who can remember who was actually involved in the original trade]. These are the people worried the sox are doing the trades for financial reasons, and not for baseball related reasons. They are naturally suspicious that the moves are being made to 'make a profit'. I disagree, with them. But I can see their points.

Edited December 31, 2006 by beck72

[harfman77]

The "die hards" [like on White Sox weekly, who made me wince with their comments] are the ones moaning and groaning that the sox are "white-flagging" it [They aren't the newbies but guys and gals who can remember who was actually involved in the original trade]. These are the people worried the sox are doing the trades for financial reasons, and not for baseball related reasons. They are naturally suspicious that the moves are being made to 'make a profit'. I disagree, with them. But I can see their points.

 

I think the Sox are making these trades for financial reasons. Getting these young starters in gives the Sox flexibility to trade the more expensive starters down the road and gives Sox payroll flexibility for signing replacements for Dye and Thome if/when they leave.

 

I would rather see MB dealt to the Yanks if they trade Randy Johnson. I think a package of Clippard, Cabrera, and Tabata would really solidy the Sox for a while and keep us contending now. Cabrera could be the everyday left fielder right now and has played all three OF positions. Tabata is couple years away but will be an impact player. Clippard should be a good middle of the rotation starter that is 1-2 years away.

[Balta1701]

I would rather see MB dealt to the Yanks if they trade Randy Johnson. I think a package of Clippard, Cabrera, and Tabata would really solidy the Sox for a while and keep us contending now. Cabrera could be the everyday left fielder right now and has played all three OF positions. Tabata is couple years away but will be an impact player. Clippard should be a good middle of the rotation starter that is 1-2 years away.

I seriously doubt that the Yankees will be acquiring a pitcher via a trade if they move Johnson. They have 4 other starters in Pettitte, Igawa, Mussina, and Wang, 2 very very talented rookies including potentially the best pitching prospect in the game, Pavano is still under contract, and perhaps most importantly, they're keeping a rotation slot open in case a 7 time Cy Young award winner decides he wants to pitch alongside Andy Pettitte for another half season.

[harfman77]

I seriously doubt that the Yankees will be acquiring a pitcher via a trade if they move Johnson. They have 4 other starters in Pettitte, Igawa, Mussina, and Wang, 2 very very talented rookies including potentially the best pitching prospect in the game, Pavano is still under contract, and perhaps most importantly, they're keeping a rotation slot open in case a 7 time Cy Young award winner decides he wants to pitch alongside Andy Pettitte for another half season.

 

Your probably right, I forgot about Igawa, and cant remember the Yankees started the season with a rookie in the starting rotation on purpose.

[Baines3]

We've traded enough starters. If we trade any more we could be a candidate for last place.